Defence White Paper: Australia joins Asia's arms race with spending on weaponry and military forces

[Aepsilons]

thats why we put you there lad, instead of locking up your ancestors we sent you lot to the other side of the world as punishment. the extra 29.9 billion will be used to hunt kangaroos's and koala's. i think its for the best you increase spending even more. heck give some of the kangaroo's that's left over a gun's too to level the playing field.

If you have access, recommend you read this. Quite an interesting read.


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[Nike]

Absolutely, in fact, Australia's position is clearly centered on strategic ambiguity: support opposition to Jakarta's central administration.

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please refer:

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How to Eliminate the Military Threat from Indonesia

How to Eliminate the Military Threat from Indonesia, by Brian Martin

Hey why dont u put a more ancient article to back u up? Nice try tough

 

[sicsheep]

thats why we put you there lad, instead of locking up your ancestors we sent you lot to the other side of the world as punishment. the extra 29.9 billion will be used to hunt kangaroos's and koala's. i think its for the best you increase spending even more. heck give some of the kangaroo's that's left over a gun's too to level the playing field.

WOW,
remember you put a group of farmers somewhere else?

apparently they stripped you of all your commonwealth and colonies and put your empire on a decline in just 5 years,
now how does it feel taking orders from your grand kids?

 

[Aepsilons]

中国图书进出口(集团)总公司

 

[Nike]

Australia = large land size with 22mil people
Malaysia/Indonesia = 250mil people (islamic people) just a few kims from the border

I wonder why Australia puts money into military...........Its pretty obvious

They fight against emus, and they lost. The answer is obvious.

中国图书进出口(集团)总公司

Hey this english centered forum

 

[Blue Marlin]

WOW,
remember you put a group of farmers somewhere else?

apparently they stripped you of all your commonwealth and colonies and put your empire on a decline in just 5 years,
now how does it feel taking orders from your grand kids?

we take orders from no one, the usa and the uk are practically brothers. austrailia???? nah

If you have access, recommend you read this. Quite an interesting read.


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thanks for the offer but i shall pass. i hate reading long articles they put me to sleep. seriously it does, im not messing around with you.

indoneasia and the aussies are like frenimies. which would contribute to the budget increase.

 

[xunzi]

What is this beef of Indo-Austro about? LOL

 

[Aepsilons]

It is quite obvious, tho it requires critical analysis in eloquent prose by Canberra to emphasize the so called 'Chinese threat' to regional stability; a means of projection to divert the direct measure and point of interest and catalyst for Canberra's recent defense development. To understand Canberra's recent naval defense buildup and overall surface to naval paradigm, requires one to look beyond to the north, and to observe the recent rise in military development in Jakarta. Jakarta's recent declaration of Tentang Kebijakan Umum Pertahanan Negara indicates that critical to national development is dependent on a two pronged approach of 1. sovereign national inclusive growth and development and 2. sovereign defense modernization in the sea, air, land , which rests on the abilities of the TNI. To secure Indonesia's maritime territories and to be able to resist threats to its national doctrine , which emphasizes critical appraisal of Pancasilah , and domination of the Malay Archipelago, with ultimate military goals of subjecting not only Malaysia , but also Singapore into its orbit. This does not necessarily mean it is to the strategic polity of Canberra to allow this, and naturally Canberra will redouble its naval and air abilities to resist such hegemonous development by the TNI in the pursuit of Pancasilah. To stem the Indonesian perception of Australian re-militarization, Canberra will utilize eloquently worded prose rendering Chinese threat to the north, but in all actuality, the Australians have their sights on Jakarta, whom they had a military confrontation in the Konfrontasi during the Indonesian war to break Malaysia and to bring said entity into her orbit; it was resisted, of course, by British, Malaysian and Australian security forces, which ultimately led to the political-military coup in Jakarta.

Again, Australia has no security threats with China; never have, never will. Indonesia, however, history speaks for itself.

What is this beef of Indo-Austro about? LOL

It is quite essential actually. Do read my write up, my friend.

 

[dyingtoknow]

Chinese threat to the north, but in all actuality, the Australians have their sights on Jakarta, whom they had a military confrontation in the Konfrontasi during the Indonesian war to break Malaysia and to bring said entity into her orbit; it was resisted, of course, by British, Malaysian and Australian security forces, which ultimately led to the political-military coup in Jakarta.

Again, Australia has no security threats with China; never have, never will. Indonesia, however, history speaks for itself.

Indonesia won't be a threat to Australia's national security for years, and by years you'd be looking at a 50+ year timeframe.
It simply doesn't have the air or naval power to challenge Australia's defences. It won't any time soon.

But this military buildup is not that really anything unusual historically speaking, or in terms of what you'd expect of a country living in an uncertain, contested region like SE Asia. We're talking about 2% of GDP here not a country on war mode. It's just that Australia has not spent much on its military since the fall of the Soviet Union left no real challenger to the US and its allies - with China rising we now need to play our role in maintain a healthy balance of power in the region.

 

[Aepsilons]

Indonesia won't be a threat to Australia's national security for years, and by years you'd be looking at a 50+ year timeframe.
It simply doesn't have the air or naval power to challenge Australia's defences. It won't any time soon.

But this military buildup is not that really anything unusual historically speaking, or in terms of what you'd expect of a country living in an uncertain, contested region like SE Asia. We're talking about 2% of GDP here not a country on war mode. It's just that Australia has not spent much on its military since the fall of the Soviet Union left no real challenger to the US and its allies - with China rising we now need to play our role in maintain a healthy balance of power in the region.

Of course.

 

[Tiqiu]

The problem here is that even though US Australia are miles apart but still many politicians here are American touts. On one hand Australia has dumped all its economy inside china and on the other hand they are buying weapons to confront china in future. China has in no way threatened Australia and yet Australians are wetting their pants over concerns dumped on them by Americans. They destroyed local Medicare for poor people just to buy more weapons.

Very true.

But Aussie does need Aus-US alliance to protect herself from the biggest immediate treat she is facing, not from China, but Indonesia. Those past incidents covered by Aussie media may give some insight about this fear:
The independent of Pupua New guinea:
The independent movement in Indonesia Pupua;
The independent of East Timor;
Boat people crisis;
Aussie navy burning Indonesia fishing boat;
Bali bombings;
Telephone tapping of Indonesian president;
Capital punishment of the Aussie drug trafficker duo;
boycott of Aussie cattle........

 

[dyingtoknow]

we take orders from no one, the usa and the uk are practically brothers. austrailia???? nah


thanks for the offer but i shall pass. i hate reading long articles they put me to sleep. seriously it does, im not messing around with you.

indoneasia and the aussies are like frenimies. which would contribute to the budget increase.

The increases in spending are all due to China. If we were afraid of Indonesia the spending would already have happened. But Indonesia is not a threat: it is an island nation with a rust bucket navy and a poorly maintained outdated air force. It may have millions of soldiers but they have no logistics to move them across the ocean.

While Indonesia's military is modernizing the progress is slow and they have severe economic concerns to take care of first - it will be decades before they can put together a credible, modern military and by then Australia's own military build-up ( as per the White Paper) will be in operation.

 

[Aepsilons]

with China rising we now need to play our role in maintain a healthy balance of power in the region.

Be that as it may , with recent economic integration between Beijing and Canberra , with special bilateral mechanisms between the two countries means that both sides will have the maturity, calm-headedness, and reflective abilities to rise above clandestine securitized speak. Australia's economic growth and health is centered on that multifactorial approach.

Some data to refer to, i suppose:

​

Let's also not forget that both Beijing and Canberra signed the landmark Free Trade Agreement:

China-Australia Free Trade Agreement (ChAFTA) - Austrade

The increases in spending are all due to China. If we were afraid of Indonesia the spending would already have happened. But Indonesia is not a threat: it is an island nation with a rust bucket navy and a poorly maintained outdated air force. It may have millions of soldiers but they have no logistics to move them across the ocean.

Rust bucket navy ? I think you severely underestimate the abilities of Jakarta, my friend. It would be foolish to underestimate the Indonesians.

 

[Shotgunner51]

On the path to building defence funding up to 2 per cent of GDP, the Government will also "de-couple" its spending on the military from the general health of the economy, so that even if growth slows, defence will still get its 2 per cent share.

US Ambassador to Australia John Berry described the White Paper as a "well-considered, comprehensive approach to addressing evolving security challenges of the coming decades".

"As allies, we welcome the Government's sustained investment in defence capabilities and readiness and its support for rules-based international order," he said.

2% of GDP, reaching NATO level, that should satisfy US government (and defence industries) requirements on their allies. McCain and his friends should be glad.

US presses Nato members to increase defence spending | World news | The Guardian
McCain: NATO allies must spend 2 percent of GDP on defense | TheHill​

The de-coupling (with general health) talk here is interesting though, not sure how will Australians take it. By making the defence spend bullet-proof, are they publicly making reassurance to defence contractors?

 

[Tiqiu]

TNI to build new bases in eastern Indonesia
Ayomi Amindoni, thejakartapost.com, Jakarta | National | Wed, February 24 2016, 4:27 PM
- See more at: TNI to build new bases in eastern Indonesia | The Jakarta Post

The Indonesian Military (TNI) plans to set up new military bases in eastern Indonesia, with Biak and Merauke in Papua and Morotai in Maluku among the options for its the location.

TNI commander Gen. Gatot Nurmantyo pointed out that currently Indonesian forces, especially the Indonesian Air Force, were concentrated in Java.

He added that the Air Force base in Yogyakarta was designated for pilot training, while the Malang Air Force Base in East Java was being used as a Hercules squadron base. Another Air Force base in Madiun, East Java, was used as a base for fighter jets.

Gatot said such a heavy concentration of Air Force bases in Java had led to dense commercial aviation traffic in some regions, because commercial airlines were prohibited from passing air space in the center of the island, forcing them to fly through northern Java.

"If we take a look at this, our defense forces are concentrated in Java. This is not right. We will develop military bases in eastern areas of Indonesia. This can boost the economy of those areas while at the same time allowing pilots to practice anytime. There are Biak, Morotai, Merauke and so on," Gatot told reporters after a meeting at the Presidential Palace in Jakarta on Tuesday.

He added that TNI would also strengthen Indonesia's defense forces in outer islands, such Alor, Lirang and Wetar in East Nusa Tenggara.

"Earlier, we had East Timor [Timor Leste] as one of our outer islands facing Australia. Now, our outer islands are Lirang, Wetar and Alor," Gatot said.

"We need to increase our defense forces, so that we will have eyes and ears on our outer islands that can inform us on all developments," he added.

Cabinet Secretary Pramono Anung said that during the meeting, President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo had demanded that the development of the country’s defense capabilities should happen all over Indonesia, rather than being concentrated in Java.

He added that President Jokowi had called for a higher budget allocation for TNI, with funds to exceed 1 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). "If our economy grows by 6 percent, we expect the funds allocated for the Indonesian Military to be around Rp 200 trillion [US$14.9 billion] to Rp 240 trillion," Pramono said. (ebf)

- See more at: TNI to build new bases in eastern Indonesia | The Jakarta Post