Davis: F-35B External Weapons Give Marines 4th, 5th Generation Capabilities in One Plane

[F-22Raptor]

The Marine Corps’ Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) will have the stealth of a fifth-generation fighter and a weapons payload surpassing a fourth-generation fighter by the time a software upgrade is ready for fielding in 2017, the Marines’ top aviator said this week.

The aircraft’s ability to alternate between accessing contested areas and deliverying heavy fire power based on the needs of any given sortie “I think for our adversaries will be quite worrisome, for us should be a source of great comfort,” Deputy Commandant of the Marine Corps for Aviation Lt. Gen. Jon Davis said Wednesday at an event cohosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the U.S. Naval Institute.

“No other airplane can go from fifth to fourth and back to fifth again. I’m buying pylons for the airplane. I get the pylons in 3F software, which comes in 2017. [With the pylons] I can load up an F-35B with about 3,000 pounds more ordnance than I can put on an F-18 right now,” Davis said.
“So I can have an airplane that does fifth-generation stuff for the opening salvo of the fight. When I have to go to level of effort, I can load the pylons on, load ordnance on there, do level of effort, come back, sail to another part of the world, take the pylons off and go do the fifth-generation thing again. … It offers us tremendous capability for the Marine Corps that’s going to have one type/model/series aircraft that can go fourth and fifth gen, give us that fighter capability, give us that attack capability that we need in the out years.”

F-35 Lightning II Program Office spokesman Joe DellaVedova told USNI News that the F-35 was designed to be relevant both on Day 1 of a fight and Day 365 of a fight. To that end, the services needed to leverage the stealth capability that the Air Force already had in its Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor fighter and Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit bomber, as well as the fire power Marines needed to support their Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF).

The low-observable design of the F-35B, when left unaltered, would allow the Marines to sneak into anti-access/area-denial airspace, take out the integrated air defense system and other high-value targets with its 4,000 pounds of ordnance in the internal weapons bay, and leave. Once the pylons are ready in 2017 to be affixed to the exterior of the plane, “after you dismantle the enemy’s air defense system…then that F-35 can be loaded up like a traditional legacy fighter and become an 18,000 bomb truck, when you don’t have to rely on the low-observability any more,” DellaVedova said. The pylons optimize the F-35B for close-air support, anti-air missions and more.

DellaVedova said testing for the pylons and development of the rest of the 3F software upgrade package is ongoing. The Marines’ current 2B software allows them to carry two air-to-ground weapons and one air-to-air weapon internally: the 1,000-pound GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), the 500-pound GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb and the AIM-120C Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM).

The 3F software upgrade will bring the external weapons pylons, 4.1 or 4.2 will bring the all-weather Small Diameter Bomb, and in the future the Marine Corps will look to adapt foreign weapons used by partners in the international JSF project, Davis told USNI News last month.

Davis made clear at Wednesday’s event that the F-35B with its current 2B software configuration can handle challenging threat environments today.

“Bottom line, [Marine Fighter Attack Squadron] VMFA 121 just did an Operational Readiness Inspection to get them ready to convince us that they were actually indeed ready to go be declared initial operational capable, and they did a fantastic job in the interdiction mission we had them do, and the defensive counter air, the offensive counter air, the close air support and the armed reconnaissance,” Davis said
“The armed reconnaissance one was the most interesting one. We gave them a really high-end threat environment to go against, and normally to go do close air support and armed reconnaissance you want to be able to get into a kind of low-threat environment to go out there and look for targets. … We gave them difficult targets to find, and we also gave them a difficult threat that in my world, as [former executive officer and commanding officer of Marine Aviation Weapons & Tactics Squadron One (MAWTS-1)], would be a prohibitive threat. They went out there, they found those targets, they dealt with that, and they came back.”

Now that VMFA 121 passed the ORI and Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford declared initial operational capability for the platform, the Marines will begin the slow process of standing down squadrons of F/A-18 Hornets, EA-6B Prowlers and AV-8B Harriers, and standing up squadrons of JSFs. All active-duty squadrons will be stood up by 2031, with the Marines buying 353 F-35Bs and 67 F-35Cs.

The Marines “intend to extract maximum value and service life out of our Harriers, Hornets and Prowlers,” Davis said in a statement, but the four remaining Prowler squadrons will be short-lived, with the Marine Corps retiring one a year beginning next year. Though a final decision on Harriers and Hornets won’t be made until 2019, the service expects that the Harrier squadrons will transition by 2026 and the Hornets by 2030.

Davis: F-35B External Weapons Give Marines 4th, 5th Generation Capabilities in One Plane - USNI News

 

[Gufi]

useless development.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

useless development.

My thinking exactly. They're shoveling so much horseshit to the American and other people, Obviously if you don't put your weapons in internal bay it'll automatically become lower than 5th gen . Some of these guys are just EPIC!!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I think its a excellent improvement.Payload was one of f-35's main problems.

 

[AMDR]

Gives us great flexibility when flying in uncontested airspace. Would you rather go on a sortie against ISIS with only 2 JDAMs or 6?

Contested airspace (Internal) - 4000 lbs
Uncontested airspace (External + Internal) - 18000 lbs

 

[aamerjamal]

what will be the result if in 4th gen config it face any and i seriously mean any 4th ( with AESA ) gen even JF-17 wont it out moreover him and can detect at same time?

 

[Gufi]

I think its a excellent improvement.Payload was one of f-35's main problems.

I do not get who the enemy is... to expect air superiority to the level you can forgo stealth is not useful against strong countries who will have stealth of their own and multiple layers of air defence. Here I see Russia, China who the F 35 would be needed against, no other air force can even match their current 4th generation fighters.
Against countries where stealth will not matter you can just use your 4.5 and 4th generation jets. The cost of flying this jet to be a truck to drop bombs is useless and a waste. Also would love to see how the engine copes with so much payload. Here I am thinking of countries which have limited or no air defence. This would include countering terrorists etc.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

what will be the result if in 4th gen config it face any and i seriously mean any 4th ( with AESA ) gen even JF-17 wont it out moreover him and can detect at same time?

For the first time I feel like JF 17 might really take on F 35 man.

I do not get who the enemy is... to expect air superiority to the level you can forgo stealth is not useful against strong countries who will have stealth of their own and multiple layers of air defence. Here I see Russia, China who the F 35 would be needed against, no other air force can even match their current 4th generation fighters.
Against countries where stealth will not matter you can just use your 4.5 and 4th generation jets. The cost of flying this jet to be a truck to drop bombs is useless and a waste. Also would love to see how the engine copes with so much payload. Here I am thinking of countries which have limited or no air defence. This would include countering terrorists etc.

yeah, I think an F 15 will do the job better than F 35 with external weapons. Complete waste of money. With thrust vectoring versions it'll be even worse coz they'll be bigger fuel guzzlers. This is turning out to be an extremely hilarious project

 

[AMDR]

I do not get who the enemy is... to expect air superiority to the level you can forgo stealth is not useful against strong countries who will have stealth of their own and multiple layers of air defence.

Then you just stay in a stealthy configuration. No external weapons in a contested environment.

And what happens when you can only hit 2 targets per sortie against a group like ISIS who poses no air threat?

Against countries where stealth will not matter you can just use your 4.5 and 4th generation jets.

4th and 4.5 cant go into a VLO configuration and back again to external weapons unlike the F-35.

 

[aamerjamal]

For the first time I feel like JF 17 might really take on F 35 man.

Wont expecting more stupid answer from a Indian...
any way, i was pointing out about the
RCS with external loads ( consider it for Land Based Air defense too, remember Serbia)
its already less agile then most 4+ gen with Aesa, they will negate what ever RCS advantage it has.

yeah, I think an F 15 will do the job better than F 35 with external weapons. Complete waste of money. With thrust vectoring versions it'll be even worse coz they'll be bigger fuel guzzlers. This is turning out to be an extremely hilarious project

Thanks that is much more related and appreciated. and but i'm more curious about RCS and its defense against any Air Defence

 

[Gufi]

And what happens when you can only hit 2 targets per sortie against a group like ISIS who poses no air threat?

You have the F 18 which is a cheaper way to do it, dedicated bombers to take care of bombing missions in uncontested airspace. You use a fighter whose coating and cost per flight does not justify bombing at areas with no air cover and light targets.

4th and 4.5 cant go into a VLO configuration and back again to external weapons unlike the F-35.

They will all take off from air craft carriers, all of them will be fighting against light targets with no air space contested and all off them will need mid air fuelling,
The issue i have is with this configuration and the use in this format, not the general efficacy of the F 35, whose electronic warfare in my eyes will make it a force to reckon within. By the time the Hornets are out of service, around 2030, the new bomber will have come into play and so will the new directed energy projects.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Then you just stay in a stealthy configuration. No external weapons in a contested environment.

And what happens when you can only hit 2 targets per sortie against a group like ISIS who poses no air threat?

4th and 4.5 cant go into a VLO configuration and back again to external weapons unlike the F-35.

dude technically the Yak/ Harriers etc. can also go into VLO. stealth was the new advantage that F 35 was bringing into the picture, with that lost you really have no advantage over the previous jets.

 

[Gufi]

dude technically the Yak/ Harriers etc. can also go into VLO. stealth was the new advantage that F 35 was bringing into the picture, with that lost you really have no advantage over the previous jets.

what is the use of VLO where will these planes be taking off from... that have no runways, and with this new weight I doubt VLO will be that easy.

 

[AMDR]

dude technically the Yak/ Harriers etc. can also go into VLO.

No

The Harrier and Yak aren't shaped and don't have the materials to make it VLO. Plus the RCS of the aircraft goes way up when there is weapons attached and there are no internal bays are on the Harrier or yak.

You have the F 18 which is a cheaper way to do it, dedicated bombers to take care of bombing missions in uncontested airspace. You use a fighter whose coating and cost per flight does not justify bombing at areas with no air cover and light targets.

If you have the F-35 available why not use it? The F-35 to my knowledge doesn't use a coating but an easier to maintain radar absorbent fiber-mat baked into the airframe. Honestly the situational awareness is much better on the F-35 too. For example the DAS can pick up a MANPAD launch and alert the pilot so he can maneuver to evade.

Many countries wont allow us to station our good strategic bombers on their bases close to the middle east and flying them out of CONUS is way too expensive.

stealth was the new advantage that F 35 was bringing into the picture, with that lost you really have no advantage over the previous jets.

Putting external weapons on the aircraft wont be a permanent decision. It just increases the weapons carried for one sortie against an enemy posing no air threat allowing for more targets hit per sortie.

 

[Fenrir]

dude technically the Yak/ Harriers etc. can also go into VLO. stealth was the new advantage that F 35 was bringing into the picture, with that lost you really have no advantage over the previous jets.

VLO - very low observability, not VTOL - vertical take of and landing. The Harrier and Yak-38 and 141 aren't low observable airframes and would need extensive modification to be made so.

I do not get who the enemy is... to expect air superiority to the level you can forgo stealth is not useful against strong countries who will have stealth of their own and multiple layers of air defence. Here I see Russia, China who the F 35 would be needed against, no other air force can even match their current 4th generation fighters.
Against countries where stealth will not matter you can just use your 4.5 and 4th generation jets. The cost of flying this jet to be a truck to drop bombs is useless and a waste. Also would love to see how the engine copes with so much payload. Here I am thinking of countries which have limited or no air defence. This would include countering terrorists etc.

It's worth noting that not everything carried externally will compromise the F-35's stealth profile, since stealthy pods also exist:

These will allow the F-35 to carry external stores, such as munitions or surveillance gear while remaining in a VLO configuration.

Stealthy weapons such as JASSM also help the F-35 retain its profile:

JSOW allows this capability too, but too a lesser extent:

Some stand-off strike weapons can be carried internally too, such as the JSM/NSM:

The USAF is keenly away for the problem of external stores and has options for retaining a VLO configuration on the F-35 when using external weapons.