Cuba solidarity, to Venezuela and beyond

[jamahir]

@jamahir

View attachment 548932

I didn't understand the pictogram. What do you want to say ??

 

[Soumitra]

I didn't understand the pictogram. What do you want to say ??

If you add too much socialism you will have no food

 

[jamahir]

If you add too much socialism you will have no food

Right, the Cubans, pre-2011 Libyans and the pre-2011 Syrians are/were starving.

 

[Soumitra]

@jamahir this is how your socialism looks like

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123278048248254464

When you give free money to people they become lazy. When that money supply dries up they start to agitate. Then the govt crushes them with tanks.

Where have I seen this before? Ah yes, Tianemman square in communist socialist china


1 If govt is providing everything for free - free healthcare, free education, free food what is the incentive for anyone to work? Ghar baithe baithe sab mil jaata hai

2 How exactly is the govt going to pay for all these "free services"? If no one is willing to work the tax collection will be down. If you print more money the inflation will skyrocket (This has happened in almost all socialist countries) If you sell your natural resources like Oil at some time they will deplete. And what about countries which do not have these resources?

You have still not given any convincing NON RHETORICAL answers to these two fundamental questions on socialism . I DON'T want to hear dukhadaa tales of people who could not get treatment in hospital, nor do I want to hear about about some Utopian society where money is not important.

Give me answers which reflect the PRACTICAL realities of life not some airy-fairy exo planet

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir this is how your socialism looks like

https://twitter.com/x/status/1123278048248254464

When you give free money to people they become lazy. When that money supply dries up they start to agitate. Then the govt crushes them with tanks.

Where have I seen this before? Ah yes, Tianemman square in communist socialist china

I will reply to the rest of your post in the coming days but the vid you have posted says that Venezuelan security forces are crushing protesters, but the reality is that the security vehicles are merely jumping over the road divider. Here's the proper vid. Even the Voice of America doesn't talk anything about crushing. But we can see one person knocked down. Also, can you see that the crowd had petrol bombs ??

 

[Soumitra]

I will reply to the rest of your post in the coming days but the vid you have posted says that Venezuelan security forces are crushing protesters, but the reality is that the security vehicles are merely jumping over the road divider. Here's the proper vid. Even the Voice of America doesn't talk anything about crushing. But we can see one person knocked down. Also, can you see that the crowd had petrol bombs ??

When you are answering please answer post no 6 in this thread also. It shows reality of socialist economy with actual statistics

 

[jamahir]

1 If govt is providing everything for free - free healthcare, free education, free food what is the incentive for anyone to work? Ghar baithe baithe sab mil jaata hai

You are incorrect in saying that everything is for free. The free stuff is only the basic things that everyone needs to live a non-troubled life. In some socialist societies, food stuff may be subsidised ( not entirely free ) like we in India have the "Ration Shop" system.

The classic statement : From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

In a classical socialist society ( like USSR ), everyone is expected to put in their contribution. Example, a factory worker, a farmer, a health worker, a teacher, a poet, a bus driver. They too get regular salaries to buy non-free subsidised stuff ( like wheat ).

And then there is the experimental concept of Social Credits which is presently being implemented in China. A Credit is basically a point that is gained by someone doing a Social task. A Credit is lost by someone not doing a Social task or breaking a law. The Credit is used to allow or deny any non-basic / non-urgent provision like ability to buy a chocolate cake in a particular week or month. Read this article on how China is doing it.

In a socialist society, one is expected to compulsorily work but not to the extent that one collapses from over-work.

2 How exactly is the govt going to pay for all these "free services"? If no one is willing to work the tax collection will be down. If you print more money the inflation will skyrocket (This has happened in almost all socialist countries) If you sell your natural resources like Oil at some time they will deplete. And what about countries which do not have these resources?

As you indicated, countries like Libya and Iraq had natural resources like oil to export to non-socialist countries. For other socialist countries like the USSR, I found this :

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency. Alternative methods of cooperation, such as barter, counter trade, industrial cooperation, or bilateral clearing agreements were much preferred. These methods were used in transactions with Finland, members of Comecon, the People's Republic of China, Yugoslavia, and a number of Third World countries.

Commodity composition of Soviet trade differed by region. The Soviet Union imported manufactured, agricultural, and consumer goods from socialist countries in exchange for energy and manufactured goods. The Soviet Union earned hard currency by exporting fuels and other primary products to the industrialized West and then used this currency to buy sophisticated manufactures and agricultural products, primarily grain. Trade with the Third World usually involved exchanging machinery and armaments for tropical foodstuffs and raw materials.

You should read more of that wiki.

 

[Soumitra]

And then there is the experimental concept of Social Credits which is presently being implemented in China. A Credit is basically a point that is gained by someone doing a Social task. A Credit is lost by someone not doing a Social task or breaking a law. The Credit is used to allow or deny any non-basic / non-urgent provision like ability to buy a chocolate cake in a particular week or month. Read this article on how China is doing it.

I dont want the govt to tell me when I can have a chocolate cake or go on a vacation or what "socially good deeds" I must do to earn "privilage" I dont commit any crimes and regularly pay my taxes. That is all the govt needs to know. Thanks but no thanks on the socialist BS

As you indicated, countries like Libya and Iraq had natural resources like oil to export to non-socialist countries. For other socialist countries like the USSR

 

[jamahir]

I dont commit any crimes

Not being empathetic to hundreds of thousands of people committing suicide for very avoidable reasons, is a crime.

and regularly pay my taxes.

You should be active in the real progress of the country instead of feeling satisfied after paying taxes.

1. What does "other people's money" mean ??

2. Socialism relies more on Resources rather than Money.​

And since when did Margaret Thatcher become an intellectual ??

 

[Soumitra]

Not being empathetic to hundreds of thousands of people committing suicide for very avoidable reasons, is a crime.

Under which section of IPC?

Rape, Murder, Theft, Bank Fraud, Corruption etc are crimes. This is not.

You should be active in the real progress of the country instead of feeling satisfied after paying taxes.

I am happy with what the govt is doing with my taxes. I expressed that happiness when I voted in the General Election.

You were unhappy with what govt was doing. You also expressed that in the election.

1. What does "other people's money" mean ??

2. Socialism relies more on Resources rather than Money.
And since when did Margaret Thatcher become an intellectual ??

Taxpayer money

Resources are limited. Even in countries like Saudi Arabia. And resources got finished in Venezuela so people are fleeing the country

Are you the certifying authority on intellectualism?

She was an elected Prime Minister not some tinpot dictator.

BTW she did her Bachelor of Science from Oxford University

 

[gambit]

1. What does "other people's money" mean ??

2. Socialism relies more on Resources rather than Money.​

And since when did Margaret Thatcher become an intellectual ??

Money is essentially printed representations (stocks) of resources. And Margaret Thatcher does not need to be an intellectual to point out the practical flaws of socialism.

 

[jamahir]

Under which section of IPC?

Rape, Murder, Theft, Bank Fraud, Corruption etc are crimes. This is not.

As I pointed out earlier, even honor killing has no specific law banning it, but murder law is used to punish for this crime. Below is from the honor killing wikipedia entry :

In March 2010, Karnal district court ordered the execution of five perpetrators of an honor killing and imprisoning for life the khap (local caste-based council) chief who ordered the killings of Manoj Banwala (23) and Babli (19), a man and woman of the same clan who eloped and married in June 2007.

Similar for suicides of farmers, students, lovers, professionals. Abetment of suicide should be the IPC section used.

I am happy with what the govt is doing with my taxes. I expressed that happiness when I voted in the General Election.

You were unhappy with what govt was doing. You also expressed that in the election.

Has some revolution come in with the election of the new government ??

Taxpayer money

And resources got finished in Venezuela so people are fleeing the country

You are wrong about that. Googling gives this :

The proven oil reserves in Venezuela are recognized as the largest in the world, totaling 297 billion barrels (4.72×1010 m3) as of 1 January 2014.

What Venezuela is seeing is destabilisation brought about by CIA and NATO. I have been long saying on PDF that after the Libya and Syria destabilisation it would soon be the turn of Venezuela. That has come true.

Are you the certifying authority on intellectualism?

I certainly can recognise who is an intellectual and who is anti-intellectual.

She was an elected Prime Minister not some tinpot dictator.

Britain, India, Pakistan, USA etc don't have real democracy. They have what is called "Representative Democracy" which is not real democracy at all.

BTW she did her Bachelor of Science from Oxford University

The current Finance Minister, Nirmala Sitaraman, got her MA from JNU. Didn't quite help her in being humane.

Money is essentially printed representations (stocks) of resources.

Conventional money can be disconnected from resources.

And please read the Chinese experimentation in "Social Credits" that I had linked earlier.

And Margaret Thatcher does not need to be an intellectual to point out the practical flaws of socialism.

What are the practical flaws of socialism ??

 

[gambit]

Conventional money can be disconnected from resources.

If you are talking about printed paper and metal coins, you are wrong. Whether money is 'conventional' in the sense that money have physical properties or virtual currency, there will always be a need for some forms of representation of resources. Call it 'credits' or whatever you want.

And please read the Chinese experimentation in "Social Credits" that I had linked earlier.

I have. It is bunk.

What are the practical flaws of socialism ??

The Soviet Union, China, Cuba, and Venezuela. Just to name a few.

 

[jamahir]

If you are talking about printed paper and metal coins, you are wrong. Whether money is 'conventional' in the sense that money have physical properties or virtual currency, there will always be a need for some forms of representation of resources. Call it 'credits' or whatever you want.

As far as I know, at present, part of the richness of a country or all of it, is decided by how much gold reserve that country has. Gold therefore is a comparative resource.

Now there was a thread some weeks ago about an asteroid which was made up of gold. The thread OP said that each human would be rich in gold many times over, meaning that the rarity and price of gold would drop greatly, thus the requirement for a new economic system.

I have. It is bunk.

How ??

The Soviet Union, China, Cuba, and Venezuela. Just to name a few.

What about Cuba ??

And what about Libya ??

 

[Soumitra]

@jamahir you keep on talking about sympathy for farmers and students suicides. What is your take on suicide of CCD owner. He was an evil capitalist