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[jamahir]

One of the boys, a 13-year-old, was killed after having been brutally tortured.

Hamza’s father was briefly detained late Saturday afternoon, said his wife, after the secret police demanded he tell state media that Hamza was killed by armed Salafists, Sunni Muslim extremists

The underlined... why cannot it be true ? And I remember this news.

In 1982, Bashar’s father ordered a military crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood in Hama, killing tens of thousands of people and flattening much of the city.

The Western governments call and project this as "Hama massacre". What is their interest in this ? Humanitarian ? Why don't the Western governments speak of the genocide in Indonesia in 1965-66 of communist party workers and suspected sympathizers ?

Syrian rebellion commenced when scores of Syrian military officers defected to Syrian opposition and began to shape armed movement against Assad regime. There was no shortage of manpower and volunteers at their disposal.

If there was no shortage of manpower why is Assad still the President, after nine years of war ? Surely not entirely because of Iranian and Russian assistance.

And this is a thread of mine from 2015 which had a vid about the NDF ( National Defense Forces of Syria ) who are Syrian volunteers assisting the formal Syrian government forces. They have women volunteers as well. These women know that if the FSA / SNC ( Syrian National Council ) types are allowed to win the war, among the freedoms that will vanish will be for the women. Hence they fight and do other work in the NDF. But the vid is not available now. YT has closed down the account.

Lastly we had a Syrian member @Syrian Lion who used to post in support of Assad and against this NATO aggression.

 

[LeGenD]

The underlined... why cannot it be true ? And I remember this news.


The Western governments call and project this as "Hama massacre". What is their interest in this ? Humanitarian ? Why don't the Western governments speak of the genocide in Indonesia in 1965-66 of communist party workers and suspected sympathizers ?


If there was no shortage of manpower why is Assad still the President, after nine years of war ? Surely not entirely because of Iranian and Russian assistance.

And this is a thread of mine from 2015 which had a vid about the NDF ( National Defense Forces of Syria ) who are Syrian volunteers assisting the formal Syrian government forces. They have women volunteers as well. These women know that if the FSA / SNC ( Syrian National Council ) types are allowed to win the war, among the freedoms that will vanish will be for the women. Hence they fight and do other work in the NDF. But the vid is not available now. YT has closed down the account.

Lastly we had a Syrian member @Syrian Lion who used to post in support of Assad and against this NATO aggression.

You are turning this conversation into an argument for the sake of argument instead of exploring this theme in fairness. Do you realize how many Syrians were protesting against Assad regime back in 2011? in Millions.

The victors (Assad regime + Iran + Russia) are busy re-writing accounts of the Syrian Civil War or something? Syrian opposition (or whatever is left of it) is no longer in the position to explain what happened?

I have given you sufficient pointers in my previous post to realize sequence of events shaping Syrian Civil War in the (2011 - 2013) period - a period of time when true Syrian rebels were in the spotlight and their struggles had Voice and Legitimacy at the International stage. Things went South for the true Syrian rebels when ISIS emerged in the region and polluted Syrian Civil War with its meddling.

Below are some deeper and darker realities for you to ponder over:

AFTER THE WAR: MILITANTS; FOREIGN FIGHTERS ADD TO RESISTANCE IN IRAQ, U.S. SAYS (Published 2003)

United States military commanders say foreign fighters are being actively recruited by loyalists to Saddam Hussein to join resistance against American forces in Iraq, posing new challenge to efforts to stabilize country; say fighters from Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Algeria, Lebanon and even...

www.nytimes.com

https://cco.ndu.edu/Portals/96/Documents/prism/prism_4-syria/Syrias_Salafi_Networks.pdf

"The Syrian government has also played a role in developing the Salafi networks in Syria. Despite the Baathist government’s distrust of Salafists, after the U.S.-led Coalition Forces invaded Iraq in 2003 the Syrian government nurtured relations with foreign jihadists seek-ing to fight the Americans in Iraq. This rela-tionship developed through the years and played an important role in the rise of al-Qae-da’s offshoot the Islamic State of Iraq, as Syria became its main safe-haven in the region, along with Syria’s ally Iran. The Syrian uprising in 2011 ushered in the “activation” and return of many Syrian Salafists who previously were involved in jihadist adventures abroad. In the past the secular Syrian government has been hostile to Salafists and practitioners of political Islam, therefore the more active Syrian Salafists have moved abroad, whereas the less active Salafists remained in Syria but supported Salafist causes abroad." - Dr. Waleed al-Rawi (retired general in the Iraqi Army and from 2001 to 2003 was Department Head of Research and Development in the Iraqi Ministry of Defense)

Rising Iraq violence – DW – 07/19/2013

Iraq has been shaken by its worst wave of violence in the last five years. The United Nations has warned that the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq and the civil war in neighboring Syria are merging into one conflict.

www.dw.com

When Terrorists and Target Governments Cooperate on JSTOR

Michael Becker, When Terrorists and Target Governments Cooperate, Perspectives on Terrorism, Vol. 9, No. 1 (February 2015), pp. 95-103

www.jstor.org

There is this whole Assad regime + Al-Qaeda affiliates angle to this ugly chapter of human history which helped shape course of events in (post-American invasion) Iraq for a while. Assad regime nurtured and weaponized these elements to make things difficult for Americans in Iraq to the extent possible. Americans managed to restore peace in Iraq by 2008 nevertheless but when Syrian Civil War began in 2011, these Al-Qaeda affiliates could roam free and do as they please (morphed into ISIS movement eventually). These ground realities help explain how ISIS movement could emerge on such a grand scale spanning across Syria and Iraq in short order, and why Americans were willing to make things difficult for the Assad regime in the (2011 - 2013) period. Russians convinced Obama administration to spare Assad regime nevertheless. This understanding make sense since Americans did not desire a Syria under the iron grip of Al-Qaeda types.

Metaphorically speaking - when you play with fire, you risk burning yourself in the process. People seem to forget this reality time-and-again.

 

[jamahir]

You are turning this conversation into an argument for the sake of argument instead of exploring this theme in fairness. Do you realize how many Syrians were protesting against Assad regime? Millions.

Dear sir, at the moment I will reply to this point only. So where are these millions ? Why aren't these millions gathering in Turkey or Europe and calling for the expulsion of Assad ?

The first picture below is from 2011 :

The next is from 2013, the year you insist is when the brave "rebels" were overridden by foreign fighters :

This next is also from Syria :

Why do you think these women support Assad ?

Tell me, do you know about Mimi al Laham ?

And why are you presenting articles from Al Jazeera and NYT only ?

 

[LeGenD]

Dear sir, at the moment I will reply to this point only. So where are these millions ? Why aren't these millions gathering in Turkey or Europe and calling for the expulsion of Assad ?

The first picture below is from 2011 :

The next is from 2013, the year you insist is when the brave "rebels" were overridden by foreign fighters :

This next is also from Syria :

Why do you think these women support Assad ?

Tell me, do you know about Mimi al Laham ?

And why are you presenting articles from Al Jazeera and NYT only ?

Have you been living under the rock or something? So you have problem with Al Jazeera as well?

I have shared with you a wide range of sources including Academic Publications to make you grasp the bigger picture of this saga (Root Causes -- Mass Protests -- Civil War). Take your time and go through these sources instead of presenting half-baked arguments to me.

Assad regime always had its support base which expressed solidarity with it in these trying times. In no way or form this reality contradict the fact that there were millions across Syria who were fed up with Assad regime and demanded its ouster back in 2011; photographs and videos of the ensuing mass protests were circulating all over the world at the time.

Mass anti-Assad protest in Homs as monitors visit

Tens of thousands of Syrians in Homs rallied on Tuesday against President Bashar al-Assad, emboldened by Arab peace monitors' first tour of the flashpoint city, after the army withdrew some tanks following days of unrest.

www.reuters.com

Syria: 'Hundreds of thousands' join anti-Assad protests

Hundreds of thousands of people reportedly stage fresh anti-government protests across Syria, as rights groups say at least 14 people were shot dead.

www.bbc.com

Google is your friend - put it to good use for the needful.

Syrian population as in 2011 = 21.08 million people (18 years and above)

Syrian mass protests took a turn for the worse (much worse) unfortunately when Assad regime ordered crackdown on them.

Syria's crackdown on protesters becomes dramatically more brutal

Tanks and troops enter towns and villages for the first time as scores of people are reportedly killed across Syria

www.theguardian.com

Even Damascus itself felt the brunt of war:

How seven years of war turned Syria's cities into 'hell on Earth' | CNN

Satellite photos reveal how seven years of war in Syria have transformed its ancient cities into scenes of apocalyptic devastation.

edition.cnn.com

People (mostly opposing voices) got displaced in huge numbers and many fled to Turkey and beyond. Assad regime had much of the Syrian military at is disposal and received ample reinforcements from both Iran and Russia to counter Syrian rebellion across the country through the years.

Syrian rebellion particularly flopped in the face of ISIS movement in the region.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Whats the purpose of the UN? It’s not a properly functioning organization anymore and the UNSC needs to be dissolved and restructured to reflect the realities more.

the primary purpose of the UN is 3 fold:

1. prevent WW3
2. promoting basic standardization across the world
3. provide small countries a forum to raise their concerns

The alternative is might is right, law of the jungle.