Crisis deepens as India blocks Chenab flow

[Goodperson]

India violating Indus Basin Treaty: Pak
Afzal Khan writes from Islamabad

The above clearly shows India a cheating Nation. Theives who are not having moral high ground to abide by the internatioal law.

EDITED

Do you who is a theif ? its not used against nation.
Especially for a nation more resourceful and economically in much better position than yours.

Pakistan suspects that India is filling Baglihar beyond the period it is allowed to and over and above what is permissible, Qureshi said.

Suspects does not mean cheating. Go and read my news in my post

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...ns-india-blocks-chenab-flow-2.html#post194680

 

[Spring Onion]

EDITED

Do you who is a theif ? its not used against nation.
Especially for a nation more resourceful and economically in much better position than yours.

As far as your resourcesful nation well yeh we know that with highest number of poor in the world. But anyway as it is off topic so i leave this issue here.

Suspects does not mean cheating. Go and read my news in my post

Ok only suspecting dosnt mean that India is filling Baghliar dam by stealing Pakistani water.

But what if your own Indian official says so that water level in Chenab got reduced due to process of Baghliar dam filling then

Now let me quote your own post which you have came up with, with much fanfair.
--------------

Chenab fuels fresh Indo-Pak tension

Seema Guha
Wednesday, September 17, 2008 03:04 IST
NEW DELHI: A water dispute has become the latest flashpoint in India-Pakistan relations already spiraling downhill since the blast in the Indian embassy in Kabul.

On Tuesday, Pakistan high commissioner Shahid Malik met foreign secretary Shiv Shankar Menon to formally protest the reduction in release of water from the Chenab river. Officials in Islamabad dubbed it a “gross violation” of the Indus Water Treaty.

Islamabad claimed India reduced the water flow to fill up the Baglihar dam in Kashmir, leading to a loss of livelihood for Pakistani farmers.


Menon, acknowledging the Pakistani complaint, said India had proposed a meeting of the Indus Water Commission to assess Pakistani claims about reduction in the Chenab flow.

He explained that Chenab’s water level was low this year compared to last year due to insufficient rain. The situation has already created a drought-like situation in Jammu, he said.

Menon said Pakistan had been already informed of the impending reduction in water levels as filling of the Baglihar dam was in progress. The level has now returned to normal.

However, he disputed the figures forwarded by Pakistan. “We have proposed a meeting of two Indus water commissioners to sort out these figures,” he said.

Menon said the water flow had resumed to normal as filling of Baglihar was now complete. “We have explained the situation to the Pakistan high commissioner. We are still to reconcile with the figures. The main problem is there was a lean period this year,” he explained.

Three units of the Baglihar power project are expected to generate electricity from next week in power-starved Kashmir. India says the reservoir has been filled with 32.56 million cubic metres of water as recommended by World Bank.

Reports from Pakistan suggest that due to the filling of the dam their water levels have gone down to 22,000 cusecs. Pakistan’s Indus commissioner Jamaat Ali Shah, who talked to his Indian counterpart G Aringanathan, said while India reserved the right to fill the dam, Pakistan should receive 55,000 cusecs of water at its head in Marala.

Indian officials stressed that under the provision of the Indus Water Treaty, India had the right to fill the reservoir between June 26 and August 31. “There is no bar on the content of water,” a senior official said.
g_seema@dnaindia.net


DNA - India - Chenab fuels fresh Indo-Pak tension - Daily News & Analysis


Now look at the highlighted parts.

AS per Rules India was suppose to fill up the Baghliar dam from June 26 to August 31st not beyond that.

Pakistan has reported blocking of water by India in Septermber which means India was still filling the Baghliar dam by CHEATING/STEALING.

Indeed a plain Thief India is no doubt about it.

 

[Goodperson]

EDITED

Now look at the highlighted parts.

AS per Rules India was suppose to fill up the Baghliar dam from June 26 to August 31st not beyond that.

Pakistan has reported blocking of water by India in Septermber which means India was still filling the Baghliar dam by CHEATING/STEALING.

Read the post carefully.

He explained that Chenab’s water level was low this year compared to last year due to insufficient rain. The situation has already created a drought-like situation in Jammu, he said.

However, he disputed the figures forwarded by Pakistan. “We have proposed a meeting of two Indus water commissioners to sort out these figures,” he said.

Indeed a plain Thief India is no doubt about it.

Giving Certificate? Go to International court of Justice for the same.


Plus I am least Interested to post further as the message is conveyed with facts.

 

[Spring Onion]

Read the post carefully.

He explained that Chenab’s water level was low this year compared to last year due to insufficient rain. The situation has already created a drought-like situation in Jammu, he said.

However, he disputed the figures forwarded by Pakistan. “We have proposed a meeting of two Indus water commissioners to sort out these figures,” he said.

Plus I am least Interested to post further as the message is conveyed with facts.

No facts over there regarding Indian claims.

And Mr you need to read it again very very carefully.
He did claim blockage of water to Pakistan but disputed the figures as he claimed and as you claim.

Even then a theft is a theft if steal one dollar and billions of dollars.
Its theft.

Still you tend to ignore the other highlighted facts about Pakistan's claim and Indian theft.

India was suppose to fill the Baghliar dam from June 26 to August 31st according to international rules and accords.
But India cheated as always.
If Indian claim of low rains is taken into consideration then howcome India was filling Baghliar dam ???
Still India was filling Bagliar dam which Mr Menon also accepted.

Shamless theives in this case.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India was supposed to fill the Baglihar dam up to August 31 and that too only if 55,000 cusecs of water was released downstream. Today, the water flow into Pakistan is approximately 20,000 cusecs, significantly less than the average low of 35,000 cusecs. Pakistan suspects that India is filling Baglihar beyond the period it is allowed to and over and above what is permissible, Qureshi said.

So, as usual, it is not going to be a cut and dry issue of one party's guilt, but rather of determining whether several conditions were met in the process of filling the reservoir, as the excerpt above indicates.

A large part of these issues arise because there are no neutral monitoring mechanisms in place that would assure each side that the explanations given by the other are valid - in this case related to the Indian argument of lower than expected water flow.

Had information been exchanged regularly, and Pakistan been able to verify it independently as the process moved forward, we would not have had any issues, and the chances of one party diverting more than its allowed share would not occur.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Also everyone - cut the personal attacks. Calling someones argument pathetic or this or that does not make your own argument any better.

Stay civil and use logic to refute the other please.

And stay off Kashmir discussions.

 

[Spring Onion]

So, as usual, it is not going to be a cut and dry issue of one parties guilt, but rather of determining whether several conditions were met in the process of filling the reservoir, as the excerpt above indicates.

A large part of these issues arise because there are no neutral monitoring mechanisms in place that woudl assure each side that the explanations given by the other are valid - in this case related to the Indian argument of lower than expected watre flow.

Had information been exchanged regularly, and Pakistan been able to verify it independently as the process moved forward, we would not have had any issues, and the chances of one party diverting more than its allowed share would not occur.

And a nation who steals your water will ever pass on correct information to you in the first place??? Do you think so.

If we see by logics the Indian claim of lower than expected flow due to low rains is mere mere face saving beacuse if even that is the case why on earth India continued filling Baghliar dam beyond the legal time fram, why it was still filling it beyond the given time period according to the international rules???

Its time all of those Pakistanis who are trying their hard to be friendly and improve relations with India, must understand that excuses on our part just to save relations wont work anymore, they need to understand India will never let go any opportunity to harm Pakistan.
Their born hate and enmity towards Pakistan is not going to vanish.

 

[Goodperson]

So, as usual, it is not going to be a cut and dry issue of one party's guilt, but rather of determining whether several conditions were met in the process of filling the reservoir, as the excerpt above indicates.

A large part of these issues arise because there are no neutral monitoring mechanisms in place that would assure each side that the explanations given by the other are valid - in this case related to the Indian argument of lower than expected water flow.

Had information been exchanged regularly, and Pakistan been able to verify it independently as the process moved forward, we would not have had any issues, and the chances of one party diverting more than its allowed share would not occur.

Thanks AM, Lets ponder over the below reasons too

1) Chenab’s water level was low this year compared to last year due to insufficient rain. The situation has already created a drought-like situation in Jammu, he said.

2) However, he disputed the figures forwarded by Pakistan. “We have proposed a meeting of two Indus water commissioners to sort out these figures,” he said.

Here is what could be the part of reason due to interpretation of treaty

3) Indian officials stressed that under the provision of the Indus Water Treaty, India had the right to fill the reservoir between June 26 and August 31. “There is no bar on the content of water,” a senior official said.

 

[Spring Onion]

1) Chenab’s water level was low this year compared to last year due to insufficient rain. The situation has already created a drought-like situation in Jammu, he said.

The Indian media did not report any drought like situation in Jammu in the first place even then if for minute we accept that water level was low this year then why on earth India continued to fill Baghliar till mid of September this year which is clear violation of the treaty.

2) However, he disputed the figures forwarded by Pakistan. “We have proposed a meeting of two Indus water commissioners to sort out these figures,” he said.

He acceped Pakistani claim but disputed figures ok even then if we accept the figures of theft by India as right ones, even then India had stolen Pakistani water.

3) Indian officials stressed that under the provision of the Indus Water Treaty, India had the right to fill the reservoir between June 26 and August 31. “There is no bar on the content of water,” a senior official said.

Only till August 31st not beyond that whereas according to the Menon's statment the dam filling process was completed now in September which is clear theft and violation of rules.

Classic Chor

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok Jana JI, for the sake of continuing the discussion in a civil manner, would you abide by my request of not using chor or thief for now.

Call it 'illegal diversion' - that is less inflammatory.

 

[Spring Onion]

Ok Jana JI, for the sake of continuing the discussion in a civil manner, would you abide by my request of not using chor or thief for now.

Call it 'illegal diversion' - that is less inflammatory.

well stealing is stealing na


But OK. lets change the meaning of stealing

OK wont call them chor

 

[melb4aust]

Chenab row: Pak threatens to seek World Bank's intervention
Indo-Asian News Service
Wednesday, September 17, 2008, (New Delhi/Islamabad)
A fresh dispute is brewing between India and Pakistan over the issue of reduced water flow in the Chenab river as Islamabad on Wednesday threatened to seek the World Bank's intervention on the plea that New Delhi had not responded to its "repeated complaints" on the issue.

India on its part argued that Pakistan had started to complain even before the agreed schedule between the two sides for filling up the low water level on the Chenab could begin.

"Pakistan knows it very well that the water level of the Chenab falls during the month of September. This is not a recent occurrence but has been happening for many, many years," an Indian government official said.

He added, "Pakistan's problem is not with the water level on the Chenab, but it is part of its frustration over the Baglihar dam, the construction of which it could not stop despite seeking the intervention of the World Bank."

The World Bank is the mediator and signatory of the 1960 Indus Water Treaty between India and Pakistan.

In 2005 Pakistan had sought the World Bank's intervention to stop construction of the Baglihar dam and hydro-electricity power project that India had been constructing on the Chenab in Doda district of Jammu and Kashmir.

An expert appointed by the World Bank had allowed India to go ahead with the project after a few minor modifications.

Jamat Ali Shah, Pakistan's commissioner on the Indus Water Treaty, said the shortage of water in the Chenab river occurred due to filling up the Baglihar dam at the initial stages. He alleged that despite repeated pleas from Pakistan, India did nothing to address the problem.

"We have demanded the Indian commissioner for a visit of the site and a detailed report regarding the filling of the dam. Yet the Indian commissioner has not given any positive response yet," he said in an interview with BBC radio.

He said they would again seek the World Bank intervention if no resolution was found.

"Regarding the issue we will demand an equal distribution of water from India and if it is not possible then India will have to pay for our loss," Shah said.

"And if India does not fulfil our demands then any commissioner of the Treaty has the right to put the matter to any impartial expert."

He also added that Pakistan had demanded that India call for an emergency session as per the Indus Water Treaty and India had promised to hold a session in New Delhi. But no communication on this has yet been made by India.

The 1960 river treaty between the two countries provides India exclusive control of three eastern rivers, while it provides Pakistan similar control on three western rivers, including the Chenab river.

According to Shah, Pakistan has also demanded establishment of a Joint Observation Team to oversee the concerns but India has not yet responded to it.

Though the World Bank had addressed some of the objections Pakistan had about the Baglihar dam, the government in Islamabad still complains that the post-completion ramifications of the project are affecting the country's irrigation system.

NDTV.com: Chenab row: Pak threatens to seek World Bank's intervention

 

[Flintlock]

^^^Pakistan knows exactly what is happening. They're conveniently blaming India to cover up the total lack of planning or anticipation on the part of their officials.

 

[Spring Onion]

^^^Pakistan knows exactly what is happening. They're conveniently blaming India to cover up the total lack of planning or anticipation on the part of their officials.

How can we plan the flow of water from Indian side ????

Accept it that India is stealing Pakistani water and your pathatic offcials are now for face covering lieng thet it was due to low water level.

Plus at the same time Indians are accepting that they were filling Baghliar dam beyond the fixed time period that is from June 26 to August 31st. India was filling the dam till mid September which is clear violation and naked theft.

 

[melb4aust]

How can we plan the flow of water from Indian side ????

Accept it that India is stealing Pakistani water and your pathatic offcials are now for face covering lieng thet it was due to low water level.

Plus at the same time Indians are accepting that they were filling Baghliar dam beyond the fixed time period that is from June 26 to August 31st. India was filling the dam till mid September which is clear violation and naked theft.

Totally agree........as the 1960 river treaty clearly provides Pakistan control on three western rivers water, including the Chenab river.

And now this cheap act of stealing Pakistani water is totally unethical and quite low from India.