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Corruption in India

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By Mostaque Ali
25 March, 2009

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Did a paper on Indian corruption for my Masters, over a decade ago, and I see that the situation hasn’t changed that much. I focused on the corruption around the License Raj, and its aftermath. It obviously was a very narrow focus, which doesn’t explain the wider problem in India.

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Its estimated that disloyal corrupt criminalized Indians have stashed away around $1,500 billion or $1,500,000,000,000 of the poverty stricken nations wealth in illegal accounts in Switzerland alone.

Switzerland is not the only place you can stash your cash illegally…..there are numerous other tax-havens where banking laws are very lax…….. Monaco, Liechtenstein, Channel Islands, Bermuda, Andorra, Cayman Islands, the Bahamas, relevant to India in terms of tax avoidance …Mauritius, Seychelles, British Virgin Islands, Luxembourg, Macao, Hong Kong, United Arab Emirates……………and of course London and “the City”.
So what amounts of money have the disloyal corrupt criminalized Indians stashed their cash in these other tax havens? $500 billion or $1,000,000,000,000?

The GDP of India by PPP is anything between $3,500 billion to $4,000 billion. The money illegally off shored represents anything between 50—70% of the GDP of India measured by PPP.

Bhara Big ney?

Astronomical sums. I don’t think any other nation off shores as much of its own wealth as India, illegally. Phoolan Devi and the rest of India’s 99% toil and slave, and less than 1 % of the country representing the elite loot the country…………..is there a bigger crime and injustice in India? I DON’T THINK SO! What does this say about India’s “ruling” elite?

Well obviously many of them are criminals, and corrupt who don’t have much faith in the country.

Who are these disloyal corrupt criminalized Indians? Hey guess what you already know them. The Netas, the babus, and the captains of industry…….people in positions of power, responsibility, patronage, and rupees.

It all goes back to the British and the continuation of the British Raj system after “Independence” in 1947. Basically if you are going to rule a country, loot it ($1 trillion worth of Indian assets transferred to London 1757–1947), sermonize over it and treat it very badly (30 million Indians died under British rule)……then you need a lot of local criminalized chamars who don’t have a problem with the British doing this to India, “No probs sahib we’ll help you”.

Basically the decendents of these chamars, along with their colonial practices have continued with business as usual.

Baron Macaulay in 1835:

“We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and color, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying knowledge to the great mass of the population”.

Now I know what he meant.

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A very simple modern example is Zardari in Pakistan….its the most obvious and recent….the guys a felon who has done prison time for corruption, and has stashed away up to $2 billion of the impoverished nations wealth in foreign mainly Swiss accounts and in London.

Washington arranges a “deal” with Washington’s other criminalized puppet, Busharaf so that no charges are leveled against Zardari and Bhutto, which allows them to “share” power with Busharaf…..(be careful Nawaz Sharif!!!!) He is celebrated by Washington and London, and they help him into power in 2008, even though he has no real political experience, network, or any recognizable political base other than the support of some misguided Sindhi’s……but London and Washington love and adore him, and eventually with the ISI’s help enthrone him in the hope of controlling Pakistan even further for their particular geostrategic interests, after Busharaf.

The same applies to the Indian politicians and Bangladeshi politicians.

This is why India after 62 years of Independence still does not have good infrastructure, education, agriculture, industry, exports…..a nation of 1.2 billion exports a mere $175 billion…..thoo……..Belgium with a population of 9 million exports $370 billion…..thooo…………..Hong Kong with a population of 6 million exports $360 billion….thoo……….This is why India has 850 million people living on just 20 rupees a day, and 55 billionaires…….thoo, thoo, thoo.

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A modern nation doesn’t need a “Maharajah economy”, where one guy monopolizes all the money, and doesn’t use it, or spend it. A modern economy requires a big middle class with skills, making things, manufacturing things, buying things, with the nations wealth being more evenly shared, so that nobody, or very few have an interest in stashing the loot (their wealth isn’t big enough for that), but they instead circulate and spend the money within the economy, and help and invest in it so that it grow’s.

But you say oh look, India has great economic growth, 300 million middle class, and the famous trickle down and all that eventually……………………………….I say when? When you have foreign educated, and backed criminals running the show can you have real meaningful economic growth that benefits everybody really, and not just statistically? Can I not judge for myself by looking at the dirt, *****, smell and poverty that exists in a lot of India to tell me that its really not working?…..Do I need a Ph.D in developmental economics to make such basic common sense deductions? Or do I need a Harvard educated NRI to tell me otherwise in CNN IBN, or NDTV?

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Lets look at a more specific example of corruption, with the Arjun Tank project. It was first initiated in 1972…….and completed in 2008/9, finally being approved by the Indian army.

Does “Shining India” require 36 years to produce or shall we say assemble a simple semi-indigenous tank? (most of its parts are foreign)………….Tanks aren’t that difficult to build, there are after all about 18 odd countries around the world manufacturing them.

Tanks take 36 years to build if you have gross corruption in the relevant political bureaucratic elite which deal with this area……think of the issue from these criminals point of view……if India manufactures her own tanks then there is no opportunity for kick backs, and palm greasing from foreign prospective defense contractors, and the reason why India defers repeatedly in buying her basic defense equipment such as tanks, artillery, planes, warships and missiles from foreign sources.

There are also allegations of deliberate sabotaging the Arjun tank project by elements within the project, along with politicians an babus……………….unbelievable, toying with the security of the country like that, spending 2% on defense and appointing clowns to the defense portfolio who will not ask too many inquisitive questions.

Whats the harm? After all if our noble netas and babus making a bit of money on the side, with foreign money right, not Indian money, where is the harm? It of course relates to corruption and national security……………if you cannot manufacture your basic defense items how do begin to defend the nation reasonably………..foreign supplied equipment means foreign supplied spare parts for your vital defense equipment….which is a dangerous scenario to be in when you are fighting a real war against a real enemy.

Put simply as things stand the Indian armed forces are not in any position to fight a comprehensive war (over months), with 40 odd ordnance factories to back them up in times of war.

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But the wider issue is this. If you can’t sort out such basic requirements as building a simple tank…..and it subsequently takes 36 years………..then how do rely on the same netas and babus to solve and address the BIG urgent national needs of India? If they make a big hash over such simple project, with the massive talent pool in India in the first place, what does that mean for India really?

Does India require a revolution at the top?

Does the colonial era elite schools need to be dismantled?

But I see that India will be celebrating and hosting the Commonwealth Games in 2010.

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The article above is from a Blogspot, so based on opinion. Nevertheless corruption is a big issue in South Asian countries including India.
A reason for me to open this thread. :coffee:
 
Yes, you got it right.

I always wonder, how far these nations would have gone, with such potentials only if they hadn't corruption.
 
Lot of my friends who have been to india tell me that India's junior civil servants are corrupt very much. Especially the police and the officals in the
border customs will allways ask foreigners for money.
 
Lot of my friends who have been to india tell me that India's junior civil servants are corrupt very much. Especially the police and the officals in the
border customs will allways ask foreigners for money.

JetLi, I am sorry, but that is not true.
Almost all of them are corrupt. It is just that money is transferred to top using junior civil servants.
And it is us who promote this by giving money under the table to get things done quickly.
 
India is probably the most corrupt - country i have been to. You can not trust anybody with money here. government office are plain unreliable unethical and untrustworthy.
And above all politicians.
I WAS JUST THINKING - INDIA KEEP DEMANDING DAWOOD FROM PAKISTAN.
well we got abu salem - wtf have we done about it. its a tRANNY SYstem. which cant do its own duty. cops, politicians, government officials , ias , ips , everybody is corrupt. soulless s.o.b. I PAY MY TAX. but i feel like shyt afterward. nobody not a single soul pay their complete tax and idiots are proud of this.
Black money is what runs this country, There is no hope as i see - from this coward unethical generation. Only hope is next crop of generation.
They talk of India being superpower. i guess if we are alive- its all because of 10% of business minded and smart people. rest 90% are cockroaches.
Defence of this country is - in this current stage - because of corruption or else we would have been somewhere else- with a billion minds.
Not a single player in olympics ??? billions of people somebody must be good at some somethign but - corruption.
We have accepted it. and live in denial that everything will be alright- answer is no!
Unless we do something about it!!!!!!
 
Rather than blaming the elite rich for siphoning money from India, I blame the 95% middle class and poor. India has a democracy, however the poor and middle class, once they get into power, abuse the system as much as the elite do !!
It seems like the only reason the poor dont abuse the system is because they dont have the means to do it. If you are a victim and you come to a position that you can do something about it, rather than fixing the system , you yourself become the aggressor !!

If the figure of 1.5 trillion is half true and a truthful Indian PM manages to get half of that, then 325 billion dollars would flow into India, Within 1o years, India would have all the ports, roads and other infrastructure it needs to become a developed nation.

I would also hasten to add that in percentage terms, the same amt would be lost in pakistan as well !!

Alas, where is the true leader ??
 
This corruption can't be removed.It's not just the civil servants who are corrupted.The top brass is also corrupted.Same case in Pakistan.
 
Lot of my friends who have been to india tell me that India's junior civil servants are corrupt very much. Especially the police and the officals in the
border customs will allways ask foreigners for money.

Corruption is every where, Whole Asia including India is in it's grip. In Indian contex deficiencies in judicial system are a big contributing factor.

It’s there is China also, lot of things can be done quickly with "Guanxi"
 
India leads Asia billionaire club

India has the most billionaires in Asia with a total wealth of $191bn between them, according to the Forbes magazine annual list of richest people.

With 36 billionaires, India has overtaken Japan's 24 billionaires, after two decades of Japan topping the Asian rich list.

Steel magnate Lakshmi Mittal leads the Indian billionaire club, with a net worth of $32bn.

Globally, there are a record 946 billionaires, up from 793 last year.

"It was a sizzling year in Asia. Both India and China saw huge gains, " Forbes associate editor Luisa Kroll was reported as saying by the AFP news agency.

China and Hong Kong together have a total of 41 billionaires, according to the list.

Lakshmi Mittal, 56, is the fifth richest person in the world, according to the magazine.

The other Indians in the list include Mukesh and Anil Ambani of Reliance, Wipro chief Azim Premji, Bharti Group chairman Sunil Mittal and Aditya Birla Group chairman Kumar Mangalam Birla.

India has recorded impressive economic growth in the past few years, though critics say the poor have been largely left out of the process.

Microsoft founder Bill Gates holds the top spot for the 13th year in a row in the world list of billionaires with a net worth of $56bn.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | India leads Asia billionaire club

--------------------------

Maybe some of you have a different philosophy, but if I were an Indian, I would deem this as the shame of India instead of touting it all over the world.

Frankly, I have NOT seen much Indian voice viewing this as a shame, but mostly with enormous glory and pride. :tdown:

This is precisely where I have question about "democracy". We need much more than that. We must educate ourselves with facts and history.

I would like our respected member Malay to comment/debate on this, as he challeged me to debate on social system the other day. :cheers:

I think this is a good thread to start.
 
India leads Asia billionaire club


Maybe some of you have a different philosophy, but if I were an Indian, I would deem this as the shame of India instead of touting it all over the world.

Frankly, I have NOT seen much Indian voice viewing this as a shame, but mostly with enormous glory and pride. :tdown:

This is precisely where I have question about "democracy". We need much more than that. We must educate ourselves with facts and history.

I would like our respected member Malay to comment/debate on this, as he challeged me to debate on social system the other day. :cheers:

I think this is a good thread to start.

So If India has more billionaires how its going to hurt poor? Are they killing poor Indians to loot money ? How many billionaires in the list do you think Inherited money from family? Count yourself, I would say this is healthy . Are you a communist ? Why should we hate rich? Can you justify why should we be ashamed ?

Please find the % of Market capital to GDP in US and compare it with India, then you get how "your billionaires" suck your money .

Do you know what is the percentage of common people savings in the national savings of India? compare it with the corporate savings in our national savings . Do this for US. (Hope in US you have only corporate savings :taz: )

Can you tell me how these rich make us poor. As far as I know in India macro economy is very healthy and untouched by rich.

US billionaires not only loot money from your people they do from all poor countries in the name of globalization.

This may be off the topic. If you are an American you do not deserve to say anything about poor. We did not invade Afghan and kill millions to make a military base in central Asia.We did not invade Iraq and killed millions to suck oil for our people. We did not encouraged civil wars in Africa to get resources.We did not killed millions in Vietnam in the name of "democracy against communist" . We did not create Talibans to kill thousands of our own people.We did not bombed Hiroshima to kill millions for testing our weapon system. And I dont have time to write more did nots ... :)

Coming back to the topic , What does corruption got to do with billionaires?
 
So If India has more billionaires how its going to hurt poor? Are they killing poor Indians to loot money ? How many billionaires in the list do you think Inherited money from family? Count yourself, I would say this is healthy . Are you a communist ? Why should we hate rich? Can you justify why should we be ashamed ?

Please find the % of Market capital to GDP in US and compare it with India, then you get how "your billionaires" suck your money .

Do you know what is the percentage of common people savings in the national savings of India? compare it with the corporate savings in our national savings . Do this for US. (Hope in US you have only corporate savings :taz: )

Can you tell me how these rich make us poor. As far as I know in India macro economy is very healthy and untouched by rich.

US billionaires not only loot money from your people they do from all poor countries in the name of globalization.

This may be off the topic. If you are an American you do not deserve to say anything about poor. We did not invade Afghan and kill millions to make a military base in central Asia.We did not invade Iraq and killed millions to suck oil for our people. We did not encouraged civil wars in Africa to get resources.We did not killed millions in Vietnam in the name of "democracy against communist" . We did not create Talibans to kill thousands of our own people.We did not bombed Hiroshima to kill millions for testing our weapon system. And I dont have time to write more did nots ... :)

Coming back to the topic , What does corruption got to do with billionaires?

Profit generated by a country like a pie with fixed size (for a given period of past time). If the rich get more shares, the poor will obviously get less. A simple math for primary school students.

Excessive richness in a poor country does mean that the rich loot the poor. The looting is soft, in a legal format that is endorsed by the rich in a democratic/dictating way. In the same sense, inheritance is inherited blood squeezed by his/her previous generations from the poor. Nothing to pride of.

Per topic, for India, a country has per capita GDP less than half that of China, but has more billionaires than Japan that has per capita GDP 12 more times than your country (PPP). Don’t you smell something odd? In addition, Japan has literacy, infant mortality, life expectancy, … that are all far more superior to that of your country. This is my justification for Indian billionaires to feel shameful (but not as much for the Japanese billionaires). Of course, “shame” has no effect for shameless people. :tdown:

I agree with some of your comments on USA. For instance, US billionaires are also looting from the poor legally. Recent financial crisis is an example. But should those shameful deeds justify or dilute any your shamefulness? BTW, this is off topic.
 
So If India has more billionaires how its going to hurt poor? Are they killing poor Indians to loot money ? How many billionaires in the list do you think Inherited money from family? Count yourself, I would say this is healthy . Are you a communist ? Why should we hate rich? Can you justify why should we be ashamed ?

Please find the % of Market capital to GDP in US and compare it with India, then you get how "your billionaires" suck your money .

Do you know what is the percentage of common people savings in the national savings of India? compare it with the corporate savings in our national savings . Do this for US. (Hope in US you have only corporate savings :taz: )

Can you tell me how these rich make us poor. As far as I know in India macro economy is very healthy and untouched by rich.

US billionaires not only loot money from your people they do from all poor countries in the name of globalization.

This may be off the topic. If you are an American you do not deserve to say anything about poor. We did not invade Afghan and kill millions to make a military base in central Asia.We did not invade Iraq and killed millions to suck oil for our people. We did not encouraged civil wars in Africa to get resources.We did not killed millions in Vietnam in the name of "democracy against communist" . We did not create Talibans to kill thousands of our own people.We did not bombed Hiroshima to kill millions for testing our weapon system. And I dont have time to write more did nots ... :)

Coming back to the topic , What does corruption got to do with billionaires?


My friend, you didn't the point. Indian GDP is only one fourth of Chinese or Japanese GDP, yet having more billionaires than those two countries.

Don't you see the problems there? A real democracy would enable its citizen to share the benefit from economic growth. Most Chinese realized there is a problem of inequality today in China. But India is far worse in this case.
 
My friend, you didn't the point. Indian GDP is only one fourth of Chinese or Japanese GDP, yet having more billionaires than those two countries.
Don't you see the problems there? A real democracy would enable its citizen to share the benefit from economic growth. Most Chinese realized there is a problem of inequality today in China. But India is far worse in this case.


Correct.

But forget not that India's black market economy is very large also. For example if a true Invoice is billed at $20,000.00. The Indian Invoice will be at $10,000.00. Where do you think the other $10,000.00 is going.
 

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