Clear divide between Trump and American establishment. How should Pakistan proceed?

[Taimoor Khan]

For the first time in Pak-US relationship we are witnessing a role reversal where in past, it was GOP and Pakistani establishment at lodger heads in their dealings with America, now it is crystal clear that Trump and American establishment or deep state are not singing from same hymn sheet when it comes to Pakistan.

It came out in open when American state department refused to acknowledge PM Khan visit to America.

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/07/us-state-department-clueless-about-imran-khans-us-visit/


US State Department clueless about Imran Khan’s visit



Mike Pompeo is the head and goes without saying , he is a ex CIA chief. Deep state poster boy in other words. Its only white house which acknowledged IK visit after state department rather embarrassing admission. Pompeo did meet PMIK eventually but there are other , very noticeable absentees in the meeting between Trump and PMIK. While ISI chief was present in white house meeting, where were his counterparts on American side? The following lot went missing:

Mike Pence (Vice president)
John Bolton (NSA)
Gina Haspel (CIA chief)
Dan Coats (National intelligence chief)


Basically, either American deep state boycotted IK-Trump meeting, or, they were kept at arms length by Trump himself.


Either way one look at it, Pakistan must tread with caution. We MUST NOT put ourselves and commit to things that can put us in a tight situation in future. There is a clear divide in America and Pakistan can be made an easy scape goat if things go south in Afghansitan. Its the American deep state which should be put as number one suspect in putting the spanner in works. Remember what IK said , he was clear that its Trump who is "pushing" people to come to terms with Afghanistan situation and hammer a peace deal. While we support Trump (even if its for his re-election bid) , we need to make absolutely clear to him that those individuals in American establishment , specially in intelligence setup, who are dithering , must be put to sword.

Dan Coats was fired few days ago and replaced with Trump loyalist. Shall we take this as a positive sign from Trump administration?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49147365

Dan Coats: US intelligence chief leaves Trump administration





Pakistani establishment, if not directly, but atleast through Pakistani media must convey this to the world that we will help Afghan peace process, but we are highly suspicious of American deep state and its shenanigans and its ability to put the spanner in the works.

We must wash our hands from any future "ti** up" situation.



Any comments?

 

[Kabira]

US establishment doesnt want peace deal on Taliban terms. They dont want peace deal in which taliban return even if with shared power. Trump is having non of that, he just want to get out of Afghanistan.

 

[war&peace]

Irrelevant and not synched post. That was before the visit and even that got clarified.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The images I viewed showed lot of politicians and head of state Trump openly extend hand of acknowledgement to Pakistan and recognized their contribution

It seemed sincere

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Irrelevant and not synched post. That was before the visit and even that got clarified.

You are living in fools paradise if you think American deep state and Trump are on same page. Pakistan must tread with extreme caution.

The images I viewed showed lot of politicians and head of state Trump openly extend hand of acknowledgement to Pakistan and recognized their contribution

It seemed sincere

Nothing to do with Trump and politicians, it's the American deep state. It's not just Pakistan, they dont see eye to eye on many other issues like Russia and north Korea.

 

[Path-Finder]

deep states matt waji hoi hai. they are never going to win in afghanistan but they still want to commit suicide there. what is there which they cant leave for? we know the answer but they can only remain there if they have assurances from regional powers. india which apparently was the answer to afghanistan did not prove to be as advertised. If anything it made things worse.

Sooner or later the Russians are going to increase their foothold in afghanistan even further and then what will they do then? All thoses high tier personnel in the kremlin haven't forgotten the 80's!

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Russian and Chinese , while hosting Taliban for peace talks, are privately telling them to keep on screwing yanks militarily. Its an open secret.

A wise man once said "Theekana Afghanistan aur Nishana Pakistan" (Afghanistan is an excuse, while it was all about targeting Pakistan). I am not sure how Pakistan can deal with individuals within American deep state for peace talks , who have done nothing but harm Pakistan along with their local minions like India.

Musharraf in post 9/11, made many drastic changes within Pakistani establishment to accommodate American wishes and goals. Pakistan must supply list of individuals to Trump to sort out, if he wants peace deal for his re-election.

 

[ziaulislam]

For the first time in Pak-US relationship we are witnessing a role reversal where in past, it was GOP and Pakistani establishment at lodger heads in their dealings with America, now it is crystal clear that Trump and American establishment or deep state are not singing from same hymn sheet when it comes to Pakistan.

It came out in open when American state department refused to acknowledge PM Khan visit to America.

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2019/07/us-state-department-clueless-about-imran-khans-us-visit/


US State Department clueless about Imran Khan’s visit



Mike Pompeo is the head and goes without saying , he is a ex CIA chief. Deep state poster boy in other words. Its only white house which acknowledged IK visit after state department rather embarrassing admission. Pompeo did meet PMIK eventually but there are other , very noticeable absentees in the meeting between Trump and PMIK. While ISI chief was present in white house meeting, where were his counterparts on American side? The following lot went missing:

Mike Pence (Vice president)
John Bolton (NSA)
Gina Haspel (CIA chief)
Dan Coats (National intelligence chief)


Basically, either American deep state boycotted IK-Trump meeting, or, they were kept at arms length by Trump himself.


Either way one look at it, Pakistan must tread with caution. We MUST NOT put ourselves and commit to things that can put us in a tight situation in future. There is a clear divide in America and Pakistan can be made an easy scape goat if things go south in Afghansitan. Its the American deep state which should be put as number one suspect in putting the spanner in works. Remember what IK said , he was clear that its Trump who is "pushing" people to come to terms with Afghanistan situation and hammer a peace deal. While we support Trump (even if its for his re-election bid) , we need to make absolutely clear to him that those individuals in American establishment , specially in intelligence setup, who are dithering , must be put to sword.

Dan Coats was fired few days ago and replaced with Trump loyalist. Shall we take this as a positive sign from Trump administration?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49147365

Dan Coats: US intelligence chief leaves Trump administration





Pakistani establishment, if not directly, but atleast through Pakistani media must convey this to the world that we will help Afghan peace process, but we are highly suspicious of American deep state and its shenanigans and its ability to put the spanner in the works.

We must wash our hands from any future "ti** up" situation.



Any comments?

what matters is trump ..nothing else...trump has a popular president..and is probably going to be reelected given democrats are just sleeping..there is no strong progressive candidate to oppose him ..

john bolton and the long list can be fired anytime if trump wants it..

trump, and Nancy polisy are only two people that really matter as well as approaching the multiple congressional caucus..

 

[YeBeWarned]

Trump is here to stay, he is Powerful and loved by his mostly White Supporters, he has all the support from the Israel/Jewish lobby , so he is doing good for now ..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

what matters is trump ..nothing else...trump has a popular president..and is probably going to be reelected given democrats are just sleeping..there is no strong progressive candidate to oppose him ..

john bolton and the long list can be fired anytime if trump wants it..

trump, and Nancy polisy are only two people that really matter as well as approaching the multiple congressional caucus..

I don't think its as clear cut as you are hoping for.

They are still dragging him in Russian affair all these years.

At the end of the day, any country worth its salt, even super power, its head of state cannot work without the support of deep state. Call it establishment, intelligence, bureaucracy whatever.

This chap is an American apologist and write in Dawn. All his past publications had a certain tone.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1497054/divisions-persist

The US system, on the other hand, was concerned about Trump going overboard in rolling out the red carpet for Khan, thereby sending, from the bureaucracy’s perspective, a terrible signal: bygones are bygones and the US is ready to mend fences because Pakistan matters.


The view within the system remains that Pakistan needs to be pressured to force greater cooperation on Afghanistan.


First, the natural inclination of those favouring persistent pressure on Pakistan will be to try and walk back some of Trump’s conciliatory signalling. We’ve already seen statements from Washington indicating a more sceptical take on the trip than Trump’s overtures suggested. On the Pakistani side, this reality will likely lead to attempts to bypass the system and work directly with the US president and the pro-Pakistan voices who convinced him to invite Khan.


On the other hand, while what a US president wants matters, Washington ultimately derives its strength from its institutions. One can’t ignore the institutional processes; any such effort on Pakistan’s part will result in rearguard action by the bureaucracy that’ll stall the momentum this trip initiated. (THIS IS THE CURX OF MATTER)


So, it is crucial for Pakistan to try as hard as it can in Afghanistan: to help the US secure a satisfactory outcome, while simultaneously seeking the US system’s support to manage Trump’s expectations.




In nutshell, what this chap is saying that Pakistan must bring peace in Afghansitan as per American deep state wishlist. Which is to accept Indian hegemony, the current anti Pakistan northern alliance setup in Kabul, along with many other issues which goes completely against Pakistan national interest. Not going to happen.


There is only one solution, which is the removal of individuals from the positions they occupy , who are against the peace process.

 

[Riz]

You are living in fools paradise if you think American deep state and Trump are on same page. Pakistan must tread with extreme caution.

Not our problem... We can wait 10 years more to full fill our desires

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Not our problem... We can wait 10 years more to full fill our desires

Indeed. But we must not let ourselves be made scape goat if this peace process goes ti** up. Plan B, C, D must be ready as time is ticking and more importantly, through media, suspicions must be cultivated in world opinion about American deep state.

 

[cloud4000]

Imagine if Hillary Clinton became POTUS? No way she would talk about a peace deal with Taliban or withdrawing from Afghanistan.

 

[waz]

Imagine if Hillary Clinton became POTUS? No way she would talk about a peace deal with Taliban or withdrawing from Afghanistan.

I don't think any democrat will come into power next year. Trump is storming into another term.

 

[nahtanbob]

I don't think any democrat will come into power next year. Trump is storming into another term.

trump would be delighted to hire you as his pollster