China's 12000 - ton coastguard ship will be arrived in the south China sea.

[Penguin]

Oh, Sir, if you keep an eye on international affairs, you will find that Russia tried to purchase China's 054a frigate.

Absolute RUBBISH!

By the way, the Russian "thugs" 21631 light frigate USES the engine from China.

China CHD622V20 engine.

1. Project 21631 aka "Buyan-M" is NOT a light frigate but a "small missile ship" (read: missile corvette) of 949 tons full load displacement
2. Last time I checked, "Buyan" is powered 4 x Zvezda M520, an engine developed from that used to drive the 1970s DDR ASW ships of the Parchim class.

http://articles.maritimepropulsion....-Project-21630-Buyan-Class-Corvette11835.aspx
http://spbdiesel.ru/en/products/
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swesda_M520

Reality is that Russian diesel industry collapsed.
http://shipbuilding.ru/eng/articles/diesel_industry/

Your CHD622V20 engine, see:
http://www.rekino-engines.com/HND-C...gine-entered-into-Russian-market-id70194.html

Even if these 8 engines end up in the enlarged "Buyan M", they would not be replacing any Russian engines but rather German MTU 16V4000M90s. The first 5 Buyan-M have MTU engines, the last 4 will get Chinese engines. And that's because Germany won't deliver no more, not because MTU wasn't the engine of choice.
http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/570b...-marine-engine-untuk-buyan-m-corvette-russia/

 

[nang2]

You don't understand the points.........

You ram someone to slow them down, not to sink them, if your target is already contained by the small ships of yours, then you don't need to ram the target as they are already heaved and contained.

It's like you have 3 goons holding a person down and you come up to that person and punch that dude in his face, if your 3 goons can already hold down your target, you going there and punch that guys in the face is only for show.

That's the same as your big ship/small ship relationship. Your smaller ship have already chased down the target and they would be boarded or search with or without your big ship involved. That means your big ship job is redundant.

Neither do you.

Consider two scenarios:

1. The enemy ships are blocking my path. My goal is to get where I want to, not to chase enemy ship. What do I do? I ram them to make my way through. Big ship works better in this scenario.

2. I am blocking the enemy ships. They can either ram me to make their way through or go around me. I am using big ship so they cannot ram their way through. If they want to go around, I will use my big ships to chase their big ship and my small ships to chase their small ships.

If you truly want to know the reason why China wants a big CG ship, just look at the sizes of Japanese CG ships.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

I think this (type of) comment says it all. Keep it up. Just rembember, pride comes before a fall.


So, why does that have a Dutch radar and French CMS?

Why then there is also a Chinese engine, fire control radar, the main weapons? Because of his main technology comes from China.

Finally, the F35 fighter is Brazil? Because the F35 have Brazil technology.

Absolute RUBBISH!



1. Project 21631 aka "Buyan-M" is NOT a light frigate but a "small missile ship" (read: missile corvette) of 949 tons full load displacement
2. Last time I checked, "Buyan" is powered 4 x Zvezda M520, an engine developed from that used to drive the 1970s DDR ASW ships of the Parchim class.

http://articles.maritimepropulsion....-Project-21630-Buyan-Class-Corvette11835.aspx
http://spbdiesel.ru/en/products/
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swesda_M520

Reality is that Russian diesel industry collapsed.
http://shipbuilding.ru/eng/articles/diesel_industry/

Your CHD622V20 engine, see:
http://www.rekino-engines.com/HND-C...gine-entered-into-Russian-market-id70194.html

Even if these 8 engines end up in the enlarged "Buyan M", they would not be replacing any Russian engines but rather German MTU 16V4000M90s. The first 5 Buyan-M have MTU engines, the last 4 will get Chinese engines. And that's because Germany won't deliver no more, not because MTU wasn't the engine of choice.
http://www.kaskus.co.id/thread/570b...-marine-engine-untuk-buyan-m-corvette-russia/

054a garbage? Maybe you should directly deny Russia wants to buy 054a.
The last is a great pleasure, our engine is Russia's "second choice"... In 186 countries, this is good.

 

[Penguin]

054a garbage? Maybe you should directly deny Russia wants to buy 054a.
The last is a great pleasure, our engine is Russia's "second choice"... In 186 countries, this is good.

Hey Dick (or Tom or Harry, or whatever you name is), don't put words in my mouth. Rubbish is your claim that Russia wants to buy 054A, not (necessarily) that the ship itself is rubbish. But you knew that and thought you'ld play dumb. Well, you don't have to play. ;-)

Why then there is also a Chinese engine, fire control radar, the main weapons? Because of his main technology comes from China.
.

What chinese technology? A copy of a French SAM, a copy of a French ASHM, a copy of a Russian 76mm cannon. GERMAN propulsion.

• 4 × MTU-1163 16V diesel engines
• 4 × Mecmar exhaust gas system

 

[cochine]

Oh, Sir, if you keep an eye on international affairs, you will find that Russia tried to purchase China's 054a frigate.

By the way, the Russian "thugs" 21631 light frigate USES the engine from China. China CHD622V20 engine.

Ucrain stopped provide gas engine for Russia warships, but this ban is not applied for Vietnam. Vietnam has signed contract directly with Zorya-Mashproekt company to buy two engine M44E for new Gepard 3.9 frigate, which are made in Russia now.

hope that we can have two new Gepard 3.9 frigate in 2017.

 

[jhungary]

Neither do you.

Consider two scenarios:

1. The enemy ships are blocking my path. My goal is to get where I want to, not to chase enemy ship. What do I do? I ram them to make my way through. Big ship works better in this scenario.

2. I am blocking the enemy ships. They can either ram me to make their way through or go around me. I am using big ship so they cannot ram their way through. If they want to go around, I will use my big ships to chase their big ship and my small ships to chase their small ships.

If you truly want to know the reason why China wants a big CG ship, just look at the sizes of Japanese CG ships.

..............

I know exactly what you said, but you seems to not understood what I said, my point is provided in neither of your case.

What my point is that, your big ship role is redundant.

In your first scenario, you assume the blocking ship won't move, or the blocking ship cannot manoeuvre,

Think of it like bull fight, where the matador usually don't move around, but a human is a bit more nimble than a bull,, which is bigger and stronger than a human, the bull usually failed to ram the matador, or else we won't have many matador if they were all matar by the bull

In your second scenario, you assume the ship you are blocking have to ram you. If you simply try to chase down your target's ship, then how big of a ship does not matter. What matter is speed.

The goal of your scenario is not to ram other ship, but to stop the other ship interfering with your objective. Ramming is one of the option to achieve that, but it does not necessarily the only way to do so. And in term of ramming, the situation remain unchanged, ramming require a single ship to chase down another ship, and the basic principle is that if a ship cannot catch the other ship, by definition, you cannot ram it.

Hence, if it is as your said, you have a bunch of small ship to go with your big ship, the small ship role can be use to fill that big ship role, and you can simply forego the big ship.

Japan is a different case, Japan have coastal water that near the artic and they have a larger coastal water (4,470,000 km2) than China (877,019km2) almost 6 times as big, which mean resupply may not be possible than a large ship is needed, hence there is a tactical use for Japanese Coastguard to use a bigger ship for longer endurance.

Just because Japan is using a bigger ship to ram your ship, it does not means it need a bigger ship to ram, it only means that the Japanese needed big ship for their coast guard, well, consider they have 4.5 millions square kilometres of EEZ, they WILL need them. China, on the other hand, only have 800 thousand sq. meter EEZ, you don't need big ship in your coast guard.

 

[BoQ77]

originally, the CG ships dont intend to be bigger to ram to others as that violate the navigating safety.
but China invented the tactic ramming or blocking other´s way by bigger ships. Refer to USS Cowpen incident , oil rig 981...

 

[TaiShang]

originally, the CG ships dont intend to be bigger to ram to others as that violate the navigating safety.
but China invented to the tactic ramming or blocking other´s way by bigger ships. Refer to USS Cowpen incident , oil rig 981...

No, China's CG only rams the sea pirates that already violate navigation safety.

So, in fact, China's CG brings order to chaos. Without China's CG, little sea pirates will all go bonanza.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Hey Dick (or Tom or Harry, or whatever you name is), don't put words in my mouth. Rubbish is your claim that Russia wants to by 054A, not (necessarily) that the ship itself is rubbish. But you knew that and thought you'ld play dumb. Well, you don't have to play. ;-)


What chinese technology? A copy of a French SAM, a copy of a French ASHM, a copy of a Russian 76mm cannon. GERMAN propulsion.

• 4 × MTU-1163 16V diesel engines
• 4 × Mecmar exhaust gas system

Oh, I don't think you are insulting comments will be respected. In addition, you have to give up denied that Russia wants to buy 054 a?

Hey Dick (or Tom or Harry, or whatever you name is), don't put words in my mouth. Rubbish is your claim that Russia wants to by 054A, not (necessarily) that the ship itself is rubbish. But you knew that and thought you'ld play dumb. Well, you don't have to play. ;-)


What chinese technology? A copy of a French SAM, a copy of a French ASHM, a copy of a Russian 76mm cannon. GERMAN propulsion.

• 4 × MTU-1163 16V diesel engines
• 4 × Mecmar exhaust gas system

Oh, I don't think you are insulting comments will be respected. In addition, you have to give up denied that Russia wants to buy 054a?

Back to the F35 problem, don't you think he is Brazil technology? And also on F35 magnetic parts of China? ... Finally, C82a Algeria licensed by the Chinese production. If you know what is the production license.

 

[nang2]

..............

I know exactly what you said, but you seems to not understood what I said, my point is provided in neither of your case.

What my point is that, your big ship role is redundant.

In your first scenario, you assume the blocking ship won't move, or the blocking ship cannot manoeuvre,

Think of it like bull fight, where the matador usually don't move around, but a human is a bit more nimble than a bull,, which is bigger and stronger than a human, the bull usually failed to ram the matador, or else we won't have many matador if they were all matar by the bull

In your second scenario, you assume the ship you are blocking have to ram you. If you simply try to chase down your target's ship, then how big of a ship does not matter. What matter is speed.

The goal of your scenario is not to ram other ship, but to stop the other ship interfering with your objective. Ramming is one of the option to achieve that, but it does not necessarily the only way to do so. And in term of ramming, the situation remain unchanged, ramming require a single ship to chase down another ship, and the basic principle is that if a ship cannot catch the other ship, by definition, you cannot ram it.

Hence, if it is as your said, you have a bunch of small ship to go with your big ship, the small ship role can be use to fill that big ship role, and you can simply forego the big ship.

Japan is a different case, Japan have coastal water that near the artic and they have a larger coastal water (4,470,000 km2) than China (877,019km2) almost 6 times as big, which mean resupply may not be possible than a large ship is needed, hence there is a tactical use for Japanese Coastguard to use a bigger ship for longer endurance.

Just because Japan is using a bigger ship to ram your ship, it does not means it need a bigger ship to ram, it only means that the Japanese needed big ship for their coast guard, well, consider they have 4.5 millions square kilometres of EEZ, they WILL need them. China, on the other hand, only have 800 thousand sq. meter EEZ, you don't need big ship in your coast guard.

This is getting ridiculous. If a ship is blocking my ship, of course it doesn't move. It doesn't move in respect of the position of my ship. Otherwise it is not called blocking. The bull fight analogy is equally ridiculous. Bull doesn't want to go anywhere. It wants to get to the matador. Coast guard ship wants to get somewhere, like within 12 miles of some island. Its target is NOT another ship.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Ucrain stopped provide gas engine for Russia warships, but this ban is not applied for Vietnam. Vietnam has signed contract directly with Zorya-Mashproekt company to buy two engine M44E for new Gepard 3.9 frigate, which are made in Russia now.

hope that we can have two new Gepard 3.9 frigate in 2017.

The USA has lifted restrictions on Vietnam's arms. Vietnam may buy from USA burke class destroyer... Gepard 3.9 it is difficult to pose a threat to the south China sea fleet.

 

[BoQ77]

The USA has lifted restrictions on Vietnam's arms. Vietnam may buy from USA burke class destroyer... Gepard 3.9 it is difficult to pose a threat to the south China sea fleet.

You are wrong.
The right choice is AShM, ie. SM-6 and something like AWACS
Any plan we know, is building the ship has displacement about 4000 ton as max.

 

[Penguin]

reported, brag without evideces and trolling for off topic!!!

do not reply to these trolls and China haters anymore!

just click report for trolling and off topic !!!

Report all you want. You're the one that's bragging and not providing support for the claim that Russia seeks 054As. I've not made any claims about any of the defence products from my own or other countries. Apparently, you feel you have the sole right to post here. As I have indicated, I have nothing against China, but I do take offense to certain kinds of posts, such as your own above, which are aimed to flip people from other nations off.

Oh, I don't think you are insulting comments will be respected. In addition, you have to give up denied that Russia wants to buy 054 a?

Rules of evidence: you make a claim, you provide the evidence. I do not have to prove something is NOT the case, when the claim is that it IS and no evidence for that claim is provided whatsever.

Finally, C82a Algeria licensed by the Chinese production. If you know what is the production license.

There is no C82A, there is a C28A. I'm still right about the origins of the systems indicated, license or no license.

 

[jhungary]

This is getting ridiculous. If a ship is blocking my ship, of course it doesn't move. It doesn't move in respect of the position of my ship. Otherwise it is not called blocking. The bull fight analogy is equally ridiculous. Bull doesn't want to go anywhere. It wants to get to the matador. Coast guard ship wants to get somewhere, like within 12 miles of some island. Its target is NOT another ship.

I don't think you ever played basketball then...........

Blocking means I want to stop you from where you want to go, and I cannot be blocking you if I am stationary, unless you are stationary too...If you block someone, you anticipate where your target is going to go and try to get to that point and cut him off before he reaches there. Hence to be able to block someone, both side needed to be moving.

What you are thinking is you have a ship and it stopped and it was in your way, unless you are in an narrow river and your target is stopped at the whole length of the river, then he can block you without moving, but in an open ocean, if you stopped in the middle of the sea, and you want to go behind where that ship is, you will have plenty of room to go around him IF HE IS STATIONARY.

As I said, you misunderstand my point, because ramming is not the only way to get thru blocking.

 

[Penguin]

Thales Smart-S mk2

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/smart-s-mk2-3d-medium-long-range-surveillance-radar

CM 65 Muray Jib (UAE navy, commissioned 1990) with French Crotale Compact Navale SAM
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/lurssen-cm.htm

See also French FL25 and FL105 proposals here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/for...PHPSESSID=a6fa264ksusit0qh5dvfpnr5q7#msg73352

"China imported some land and sea versions of the Thomson-CSF Crotale missile in 1978-1979 for evaluation. The Thomson-CSF R-440 Sea Crotale surface-to-air missile (SAM) and Thomson-CSF TSR 3004 Sea Tiger E/F-band radar were installed on the Peoples Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Type 051 destroyer Kaifeng (109) and Type 052 destroyer Harbin (112). The Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) found the Crotale system to be superior to the HQ-61 SAM, and instructed the 2nd Aerospace Academy (now the China Academy of Defense Technology) to reverse-engineer the Crotale, the 23rd Institute to reverse-engineer the radar and fire control system, and the 206th Institute to develop ground-based vehicle carriers for the SAM.
China was able to produce copies of the Crotale (HQ-7) missile for testing in 1983. It was certified for serial production in 1986-1988. China promoted an export version, FM-80, at the 1989 Dubai Aerospace Show. Through the 1990s, the HQ-7 was deployed at Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) bases, on PLA vehicles, and PLAN ships. It was PLAN's standard ship-based air-defense SAM for over a decade, until the introduction of the more capable, longer-range HQ-9."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7

First Type 053H3 with HQ7 commissioned 1990. The first upgraded Type 051 with HQ7 also appeared in 1990.

Russian AK-176 76mm naval gun

"The 713th Institute (also known as Zhengzhou Electrical Engineering Research Institute) of China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) of the People's Republic of China has developed a Chinese variant of AK-176, with Mr. Chen Dingfeng (陈汀峰) as the general designer. Design begun in 2000 and was completed in 2003. The primary difference between this H/PJ-26 and AK-176 is that the Chinese variant adopts a stealthy turret design, and more composite material is used in the construction of the turret. In addition, ready rounds for the H/PJ-26 are doubled to 150 rounds from the original 75 of the AK-176."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-176

YJ-8 - mother of modern Chinese AShMs

MM-38, mother of French AShMs

"C-801 is a subsonic Chinese anti-ship missile (AShM) developed in the 1980s. Designated as YJ-8 (YJ is the abbreviation of Yingji in Chinese, meaning Eagle Strike), this originally surface platform based missile would become the foundation based on which several other missiles developed, such as YJ-81, the air-launched version. More advanced missiles such as C-802 and C-803, as well as land strike and anti-radiation versions were also subsequently developed.
C-801 is extremely close to that of French Exocet, while the triple control surfaces of C-801 are almost identical to those found on the American Harpoon, and C-801 is sometimes referred by some as the Chinese Exocet."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-801_anti-ship_missile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-802

"According to IHS Jane's Fighting Ships , the C28A platform features an overall length of 120 m, an overall beam of 14.4 m, and a hull draught of 3.87 m. Powered by four MTU 12V 1163 TB93 diesel engines, the vessel has a top speed of 28 kt and a standard range of 3,500 n miles at 16 kt."
http://www.janes.com/article/58827/algeria-commissions-second-chinese-built-c28a-corvette
http://www.mtu-online.com/mtu/application/marine-defense/series-1163/?no_cache=1&sword_list[0]=1163

The Shaanxi diesels used on many Chinese ships (054A) are license produced French SEMT Pielstick 16 PA6 STC. Types 053H2G and Type 053H3 use both SEMT-Pielstick 18E390VA and MTU diesel engines.

Compared to the F22P, the C28A have no chimney/stack. That is because the flue gases of the diesel engines are expelled by a Mecmar exhaust system on the waterline of the C28A. Translated from: http://www.naval.com.br/blog/2016/03/16/argelia-recebe-segunda-corveta-c28a-de-construcao-chinesa/

Mecmar exhaust systems (Norway)
http://www.mecmar.no/eng/