China warns Canada: If Huawei 5G equipment is banned, Canada will bear all the consequences related

[patero]

Please don't insult our intelligence with this rule of law BS. The whole world knows what is going on.

I made it quiet clear what is really going on, the US is orchestrating the campaign against Huawei. That's why pressuring Canada over Mengs arrest is pointless, the 'all the consequences' threat should be directed at the US.

 

[bbccdd1470]

I just came across one interesting view point of the Meng case on internet and like to share with my Chinese bros.

"I support extradition, when a citzen of any country breaks a US law in the (physically done in the country) US and gets caught in Canada to be sent back and vice versa. Even if Huawei did trade with Iran, Huawei’s US office did not participate, their is only concrete evidence on a company in HONG KONG. Even if we “assume” it to be Huawei’s shell company, the shell company’s CEO and CFO are different from Huawei, she left the board of that company in 2009, so technically she shouldn’t be arrested without concrete evidence. Basically the US has broken the number one rule of a democratic, free country. “Innocence until proven guilty”, they are assuming she is in charge of the company, they are charging her with fraud, when the company might not even be under Huawei’s control."

I made it quiet clear what is really going on, the US is orchestrating the campaign against Huawei. That's why pressuring Canada over Mengs arrest is pointless, the 'all the consequences' threat should be directed at the US.

This is not pointless, Canada was the country that arrested Meng and China have to make an example who dare to arrest a high profile chinese just because USA political aganda. Since the pandora box has been opened, with consequence other country would think twice before acting, in case USA further abuse the extraditional treaty in the future.

 

[Jlaw]

There's an interesting answer to that question: the Canadian judicial system. In accordance with the principal of separation of powers it is independent from the executive or administrative branch of the Canadian government.

Where in Canadian law specifically is this principle you are referring to?

I just came across one interesting view point of the Meng case on internet and like to share with my Chinese bros.

"I support extradition, when a citzen of any country breaks a US law in the (physically done in the country) US and gets caught in Canada to be sent back and vice versa. Even if Huawei did trade with Iran, Huawei’s US office did not participate, their is only concrete evidence on a company in HONG KONG. Even if we “assume” it to be Huawei’s shell company, the shell company’s CEO and CFO are different from Huawei, she left the board of that company in 2009, so technically she shouldn’t be arrested without concrete evidence. Basically the US has broken the number one rule of a democratic, free country. “Innocence until proven guilty”, they are assuming she is in charge of the company, they are charging her with fraud, when the company might not even be under Huawei’s control."


This is not pointless, Canada was the country that arrested Meng and China have to make an example who dare to arrest a high profile chinese just because USA political aganda. Since the pandora box has been opened, with consequence other country would think twice before acting, in case USA further abuse the extraditional treaty in the future.

No Canadian lawyer can pinpoint what she did wrong cuz it's not in our law or she did nothing wrong.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Whites blamed the Jews and butchered 6 million of them. Now they blame Chinese. Looks like Whites are stuck in their tribal mentality.

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

Trudeau, what did he do for the economy?

Most of his news is about diplomacy.

Give 21 million Canadian dollars to one terrorist???? subsidize the wounded veterans, said no money?!

Before him, Canada was friendly with all countries.

Now, China's relations are not good, Saudi Arabia's relations are deteriorating, India's diplomatic visits are bad, and the North American agreement was teased by the Trump.
What are the benefits he has given to Canada? (I earnestly hope to get the answer)..
I'm confused.

 

[Nilgiri]

There's an interesting answer to that question: the Canadian judicial system. In accordance with the principal of separation of powers it is independent from the executive or administrative branch of the Canadian government.

China trying to apply pressure on the Canadian government to consider its position on Huawei's 5G tender may have some effect. But placing pressure on the Canadian government over the Meng Wanzhou situation is completely pointless. The executive body is powerless to act. Under treaties with the US, Canadian border authorities were obliged to arrest Meng Wanzhou. If anybody should be targeted for 'all the consequences' it should be the US.

And she is not being held hostage, that infers she has been kidnapped. She has been arrested and charged under US federal law by Canadian authorities, and released on bail to her address in Toronto.

They literally do not understand this at the face value level, much less any deeper sense. There is no point explaining it to them....trust me I (and others) have tried. You will soon see who are the lost causes in this forum for such attempted discussion. You can already see one knee jerk twit below you...there are plenty more.

Sometimes I wonder how old some members really are in this forum.

Its actually good (for interests of the saner ppl) to have him keep braying that nuke holocaust stuff (and the ridiculous notion that his own will somehow come out scot-free of massive instant sunshine retaliation)...and all of it not transpiring and his mentally unsound nature being sent into even bigger fit of anger/desperation ...and still being allowed to post (while systematically denying certain other identities the same).

Why do I say its good? Because it literally proves the point what CPC-stronk zombie trolls are (and the system that indulges them here past all reasonable thresholds found pretty much anywhere else that actually puts quality first over quantity) to everyone else better than anything else can.

A certain complex runs very deep in CPC (one child policy) princelings especially (past the stereotype reinforced of essentially a faceless mentally lacking clone copy + paste process) that never faced an actual sustained conflict....forget a real war. It is made all the more clear each time...especially as reality is able to tick and tock right past the emotional unfurling. ...best part is looks like most Chinese members here don't even see this as an issue (given they encourage this moron and do not try to even do a limited group intervention). I suppose the warmth of the cocoon here (away from the harsh reality outside) must be oh so good to them....maybe such maniac jesters provide the needed entertainment fuzzy warmth for them in some perverse way as well....just to show we (yes WE, he and his cabal carry your flag in the end after all) can do it and tolerate it and have it tolerated by the powers that be here, but you can't!

@KAL-EL @Hamartia Antidote @VCheng @Joe Shearer @gambit @jhungary @Viva_Viet @Viet @Khan_21 @LeGenD

 

[patero]

Where in Canadian law specifically is this principle you are referring to? Stop pulling shit out of your anus


That Hindu is. Making shit up. No Canadian lawyer can pinpoint what she did wrong cuz it's not in our law or she did nothing wrong. Canada is the biggest US *** licker.

You should educate yourself before showing your ignorance. Separation of powers a doctrine that is fundamental to all democratic systems. Of relevance in this instance is the separation of the judicial and executive branches of the Canadian Government, its in the Constitution act 1867 and codified in various other Canadian Constitutional documents. There is plenty of commentary on the subject, maybe you should take the time to understand the political system you have chosen to live under.

Trudaeu made mention of the independence of the Canadian judiciary from the executive in an interview last week, I guess you must have missed it.

 

[northeast]

You should educate yourself before showing your ignorance. Separation of powers a doctrine that is fundamental to all democratic systems. Of relevance in this instance is the separation of the judicial and executive branches of the Canadian Government, its in the Constitution act 1867 and codified in various other Canadian Constitutional documents. There is plenty of commentary on the subject, maybe you should take the time to understand the political system you have chosen to live under.

Trudaeu made mention of the independence of the Canadian judiciary from the executive in an interview last week, I guess you must have missed it.

It doesn't matter your judiciary is independent or not.as a whole canada have done some serious damage to the relationship of china.If your judiciary is not the evil one then your politicians and the law made by them is the evil one.but to china，it make no difference.your politicians don‘t want to take responbility，that is the truth.

 

[bbccdd1470]

It doesn't matter your judiciary is independent or not.as a whole canada have done some serious damage to the relationship of china.If your judiciary is not the evil one then your politicians and the law made by them is the evil one.but to china，it make no difference.your politicians don‘t want to take responbility，that is the truth.

I would say Trudaeu is naive and politically inexperience. The point is the real world doesn't operate like everything said in the constitution, like USA also proclaims herself as a rule of laws, but the fact is quite different. Otherwise Hillary Clinton should be in jail already or at least a charge on her, since her alleged use of a personal server and leaked of top informations was indisputably a federal felony. Trump also promised his supportors an independent investigation on her crime, but what happened after he won the election.

Not to mentions, according to UN chapter territorial integrity or political independence of any state should be respected, but there are still foreign armies stations in Syria today without the Syrian government consent. If those countries indeed believe in rule of laws, they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Let's be realistic, the world is not black and white, and doing the right thing does not necessarily yeild the best interest of his country, example like President Roosevelt and PM Churchill also withhold informations to the public during WW2 even it had caused the causalities of Pearl harbour and bombing of London. I don't believe Canadian politicians are evil but lack of consideration of his country's best interest. I once read a Chinese source siting a former Canadian diplomat talking "miracle disappeared" of Meng before the arrest as one of the option to avoid puting Canada into harmful position. If American government could play dirty, why Canadian government couldn't for the sake of his interests.

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

They literally do not understand this at the face value level, much less any deeper sense. There is no point explaining it to them....trust me I (and others) have tried. You will soon see who are the lost causes in this forum for such attempted discussion. You can already see one knee jerk twit below you...there are plenty more.



Its actually good (for interests of the saner ppl) to have him keep braying that nuke holocaust stuff (and the ridiculous notion that his own will somehow come out scot-free of massive instant sunshine retaliation)...and all of it not transpiring and his mentally unsound nature being sent into even bigger fit of anger/desperation ...and still being allowed to post (while systematically denying certain other identities the same).

Why do I say its good? Because it literally proves the point what CPC-stronk zombie trolls are (and the system that indulges them here past all reasonable thresholds found pretty much anywhere else that actually puts quality first over quantity) to everyone else better than anything else can.

A certain complex runs very deep in CPC (one child policy) princelings especially (past the stereotype reinforced of essentially a faceless mentally lacking clone copy + paste process) that never faced an actual sustained conflict....forget a real war. It is made all the more clear each time...especially as reality is able to tick and tock right past the emotional unfurling. ...best part is looks like most Chinese members here don't even see this as an issue (given they encourage this moron and do not try to even do a limited group intervention). I suppose the warmth of the cocoon here (away from the harsh reality outside) must be oh so good to them....maybe such maniac jesters provide the needed entertainment fuzzy warmth for them in some perverse way as well....just to show we (yes WE, he and his cabal carry your flag in the end after all) can do it and tolerate it and have it tolerated by the powers that be here, but you can't!

@KAL-EL @Hamartia Antidote @VCheng @Joe Shearer @gambit @jhungary @Viva_Viet @Viet @Khan_21 @LeGenD

I would like to know the Indians in Canada to comment on Trudeau, and his performance in India last year.thank you

 

[Nilgiri]

I would like to know the Indians in Canada to comment on Trudeau, and his performance in India last year.thank you

I don't like Trudeau and he is a lousy PM....that handled himself quite badly in India.

Issue of concern here (extradition treaty and Canadian judicial branch of govt) is quite different matter to whoever the PM is at some time.

 

[jhungary]

This is not pointless, Canada was the country that arrested Meng and China have to make an example who dare to arrest a high profile chinese just because USA political aganda. Since the pandora box has been opened, with consequence other country would think twice before acting, in case USA further abuse the extraditional treaty in the future.

The question is not whether or not China can applies enough pressure to Canada so the "Abuse" is not going to continue, the question itself is whether or not Meng was guilty. And the answer is, we don't know until the case has passed the court of law system.

The thing is, if US want Huawei dead, there are quite numerous way the US can do that, at the worse case scenario, the US government can do a ZTE on Huawei, arresting Meng does not negate the influence on Huawei in North America.

The question itself is whether or not Meng actually did what the US accused of her, if she is innocent, then nothing will ever come out of it, but if she is guilty, then there will be consequence, however, we aren't at that point yet, and in Canada, and most part of the world, when you are accuse of something, you are within your right to a fair trial, and these pressure to Canadian government is not whether or not they have to release Meng, but in Canada is seen as an "Attack" on Canadian jurisprudence.

Now I want to ask you, how much "pressure" you think would need for Canada would bow down to China and disengage its jurisprudence?

 

[bbccdd1470]

The question is not whether or not China can applies enough pressure to Canada so the "Abuse" is not going to continue, the question itself is whether or not Meng was guilty. And the answer is, we don't know until the case has passed the court of law system.

The thing is, if US want Huawei dead, there are quite numerous way the US can do that, at the worse case scenario, the US government can do a ZTE on Huawei, arresting Meng does not negate the influence on Huawei in North America.

The question itself is whether or not Meng actually did what the US accused of her, if she is innocent, then nothing will ever come out of it, but if she is guilty, then there will be consequence, however, we aren't at that point yet, and in Canada, and most part of the world, when you are accuse of something, you are within your right to a fair trial, and these pressure to Canadian government is not whether or not they have to release Meng, but in Canada is seen as an "Attack" on Canadian jurisprudence.

Now I want to ask you, how much "pressure" you think would need for Canada would bow down to China and disengage its jurisprudence?

Well, let's say I pretty sure the "pressure" is useless to release Meng and the pressure is more like a show for other country to see. Like you arrest my high profiled people, I arrest yours in return. As my previous post already stated that I don't see this world as black and white, specially in international level. There are some people simply won't be touch, innocent or not. Many injustices happen around the world in international level and won't get their justice back. ( I don't want naming game, so just leave it as that)

My opinion is Meng case is already done when Meng was arrested. The only way Canadian gov't can prevent Canada himself to get in bewteen the two giants without hurting his interests is before the arrest, after that is up to the judicial branch of Canada. 2018 alone, HK government already denied 3 extradition requests from USA without explaination. Not to mentions, Edward Snowdon boarded the plane to Russia as the same day the US requested his arrest to HK gov't. So I can see there are grey areas when it comes to national interest. But I also understand the diffculty that Canadian gov't is facing. However, the Canadian leadership failed to see the retaliations from the China's side was immature, specially when it happened in the middle of the trade war and Huawei leading the 5G technology.

 

[jhungary]

Well, let's say I pretty sure the "pressure" is useless to release Meng and the pressure is more like a show for other country to see. More like you arrest my high profiled people, I arrest yours in return. As my previous post already stated that I don't see this world as black and white, specially in international level. There are some people simply won't be touch, innocent or not. Many injustices happen around the world in international level and won't get their justice back. ( I don't want naming game, so just leave it as that)

My opinion is Meng case is already done when Meng was arrested. The only way Canadian gov't can prevent Canada himself to get in bewteen the two giants without hurting his interests is before the arrest, after that is up to the judicial branch of Canada. 2018 alone, HK government already denied 3 extradition requests from USA without explaination. Not to mentions, Edward Snowdon boarded the plane to Russia as the same day the US requested his arrest to HK gov't. So I can see there are grey areas when it comes to national interest. But I also understand the diffculty that Canadian gov't is facing. However, the Canadian leadership failed to see the retaliations from the China's side was immature, specially when it happened in the middle of the trade war and Huawei leading the 5G technology.

First of all, Hong Kong is completely different than in Canada.

Hong Kong government does not have the right to external affair, and yes, even tho Hong Kong have an extradition treaty with the US, the treaty can be veto and voided by the Chinese government, which is the government in charge of Hong Kong External Affairs.

This case remind me of the case when the US arrested an Indian diplomat a couple years back. No one is outside the jurisdiction for the DOJ, so if a case was issued and pass the evidence threshold. DOJ will issue an arrest warrant for the individual, and regardless of who that person are, they will be arraigned and processed.

The problem is, this is not done by a part of "under-the-table" deal between US and Canada, DOJ issue a warrant, pass that on to Interpol, a red notice was issued, and Canada received the red notice, as part of the extradition agreement, they have to arrest Meng, or else what would Canada going to do? Ignore the red notice? Or ignore the Jurisprudence of their own country to not do anything?

You can pressure the Canadian government all you want, or arrest any Canadian in China, the back bone of the Judiciary system in Canada is build on Jurisprudence and no amount of pressure can have the Canadian back down from its own system, not for the US, not for the Chinese, and simply say, what China doing now is actually quite stupid. Because it was not targeting the actual instigator of this incident. You don't shoot the messenger just because you hate the message and in this case, China is shooting at Canada for something the US do.

World politics is not like how you think, you can only control the part that you can control, and once it's outside your jurisdiction, it's out of your hand, and whatever Canada do is whatever Canada will do, and regardless on how many Canadian being arrested both legally and illegally will not change this fact, and it will only damage China international image further.

If Meng was indeed innocent, what's the harm to let the case run its course? It's not like Meng is not going to have enough money to afford competent representation?

 

[bbccdd1470]

First of all, Hong Kong is completely different than in Canada.

Hong Kong government does not have the right to external affair, and yes, even tho Hong Kong have an extradition treaty with the US, the treaty can be veto and voided by the Chinese government, which is the government in charge of Hong Kong External Affairs.

This case remind me of the case when the US arrested an Indian diplomat a couple years back. No one is outside the jurisdiction for the DOJ, so if a case was issued and pass the evidence threshold. DOJ will issue an arrest warrant for the individual, and regardless of who that person are, they will be arraigned and processed.

The problem is, this is not done by a part of "under-the-table" deal be

I think you are right about the HK cases but still China vetod it for his interests. I just checked Canadian Ministry of Justice have the final say even the Canadian Court have decided the verdict but with condition. So now China maybe pressuring the Canadian gov't to choose, in case Meng is guilty. Let's be honest, I don't view Meng as important as other Chinese members view, it may stall Hauwei for some time but it also encourage Hauwei work even harder and not so much family oriented. Since there are not much informations of this case available, let's wait and see what will happen next.

World politics is not like how you think, you can only control the part that you can control, and once it's outside your jurisdiction, it's out of your hand, and whatever Canada do is whatever Canada will do, and regardless on how many Canadian being arrested both legally and illegally will not change this fact, and it will only damage China international image further.

You got some senses here.