China Still Years Ahead of India

[Neo]

India struggles to catch China





[URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][/URL][/URL][/URL] By Rupert Wingfield-Hayes
BBC News, Delhi and Beijing

[URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif"][/URL][/URL][/URL]


The rapid growth of the Indian and Chinese economies have transformed the two countries in recent years. But this prosperity has also brought other problems.

[URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41888000/jpg/_41888754_beijing_bbc_2001_203.jpg"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41888000/jpg/_41888754_beijing_bbc_2001_203.jpg"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41888000/jpg/_41888754_beijing_bbc_2001_203.jpg"][/URL][/URL][/URL] Heavy investment has turned Beijing into a modern city

I think it was in 2003, that the world suddenly woke up to China.
I am not sure what caused it to happen, what particular event or news story. I just remembered the phone in the BBC's Beijing Bureau started ringing and it has not stopped since.
Well now it is happening again and this time it is not China, it is India.

Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India.
The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.


There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure.

I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult.
But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.



[URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41915000/jpg/_41915526_delhi_crowdsap300_2.jpg"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41915000/jpg/_41915526_delhi_crowdsap300_2.jpg"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41915000/jpg/_41915526_delhi_crowdsap300_2.jpg"][/URL][/URL][/URL] Over 15 million people live in Delhi

Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city.
The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.
Switch on the television and it is the same.

Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience.
But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.
[URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][URL="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif"][/URL][/URL][/URL]

The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.

Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.
I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.
But getting back would not be easy.

Passenger queues

I looked at my plane ticket. Departure time 0315. Surely that could not be right.
I called the front desk. "That's correct sir," he said, "the airport is too small so many flights from Delhi leave in the middle of the night."

He was not joking.
My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.
The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.
The queues snaked around the airport and back to where they had started.

Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment. Locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting.

"Is it always like this?" I asked a man in the queue ahead of me.
"Pretty much," he sighed.
I was finally shepherded aboard the flight to Shanghai.
Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.
"Is this your first trip to China?" he asked me.
"No," I replied, "I live there."
"Really," he said, his interest piqued, "what should I expect?"
"I think," I said, "you should expect to be surprised."

Jaw dropping

Six hours later, our plane taxied to a halt in front of the soaring glass and steel of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport

As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion's jaw slid towards his belly button.
"I was not expecting this," he said, his eyes wide in wonder. "Oh no, I definitely was not expecting this".

I also found myself looking at China afresh.
Later that day as I drove home from Beijing airport along the smooth six-lane highway I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work.
And it was not just the airports and roads.

Driving through a village on the edge of Beijing I was struck by how well everyone was dressed.
In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China's countryside that is not something you will see.

In Delhi I had been told of the wonders of India's new economy, of the tens of thousands of bright young graduates churning out the world's latest computer software.

I thought of China's new economy, of the tens of millions of rural migrants who slave away in factories, making everything from plimsolls to plasma televisions.

And of the same rural migrants, heading home to their villages at Chinese New Year festival loaded down with gifts, their pockets stuffed full of cash.

China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated.
They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/5181024.stm

 

[Jay_]

Its not struggling, its no where near it
Its like comparing 2 different ideologies...to each its own is better

 

[Sid]

India struggles to catch China

The rapid growth of the Indian and Chinese economies have transformed the two countries in recent years. But this prosperity has also brought other problems.

I think it was in 2003, that the world suddenly woke up to China.

I am not sure what caused it to happen, what particular event or news story. I just remembered the phone in the BBC's Beijing Bureau started ringing and it has not stopped since.

Well now it is happening again and this time it is not China, it is India.

Every time you turn on the television or pick up a magazine, it is no longer the rise of China, it is now the rise of China and India.

The desire to make comparisons is understandable. Both have more than a billion people. Both are growing at 10% a year.

There are, I suspect, many who are hoping that India, with its freedom and democracy, will win this new race to become the next economic super power. I am not so sure.

I have spent the last eight years living in Beijing, and only four days in Delhi, so comparisons are difficult.

But the few days I recently spent in India made me look at China in a new light.
'Shocking experience'

Delhi is an overwhelming experience. It is as if all of humanity has been squeezed into one city.

The streets groan under the weight of people. The air is filled with deafening noise and sumptuous smells.

Switch on the television and it is the same.

Between channels blasting out voluptuous Bollywood love stories and pop videos, an endless stream of news channels dissect the latest political scandals, and debauched lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Coming from China it is an almost shocking experience.

But after the initial delight at being in an open society, I started to notice other things.

The hotel was expensive and bad. In my room I searched for a high speed internet connection, a standard feature in any hotel in China. There was not one.

Then with the night-time temperature still well above 30C (86F) the power went out.

I lay for hours soaked in sweat trying, and failing, to get back to sleep and wishing I was back in Beijing where the lights never go out.

But getting back would not be easy.

Passenger queues

I looked at my plane ticket. Departure time 0315. Surely that could not be right.
I called the front desk. "That's correct sir," he said, "the airport is too small so many flights from Delhi leave in the middle of the night."

He was not joking.

My taxi struggled along the Jaipur road towards the airport.

The two-lane road was clogged by an endless convoy of lorries. Finally I arrived at Indira Gandhi International airport. Despite the hour it was teeming with people.

The queues snaked around the airport and back to where they had started.

Foreign tourists stared in bewilderment. Locals with the resigned look of those used to waiting.

"Is it always like this?" I asked a man in the queue ahead of me.

"Pretty much," he sighed.

I was finally shepherded aboard the flight to Shanghai.

Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.

"Is this your first trip to China?" he asked me.

"No," I replied, "I live there."

"Really," he said, his interest piqued, "what should I expect?"

"I think," I said, "you should expect to be surprised."

Jaw dropping

Six hours later, our plane taxied to a halt in front of the soaring glass and steel of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport.

As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion's jaw slid towards his belly button.

"I was not expecting this," he said, his eyes wide in wonder. "Oh no, I definitely was not expecting this".

I also found myself looking at China afresh.

Later that day as I drove home from Beijing airport along the smooth six-lane highway I could not help feeling a sense of relief at being back in a country where things work.

And it was not just the airports and roads.

Driving through a village on the edge of Beijing I was struck by how well everyone was dressed.

In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China's countryside that is not something you will see.

In Delhi I had been told of the wonders of India's new economy, of the tens of thousands of bright young graduates churning out the world's latest computer software.

I thought of China's new economy, of the tens of millions of rural migrants who slave away in factories, making everything from plimsolls to plasma televisions.

And of the same rural migrants, heading home to their villages at Chinese New Year festival loaded down with gifts, their pockets stuffed full of cash.

China is not a free society, and it has immense problems. But its successes should not be underestimated.

They are ones that India, even with its open and democratic society, is still far from matching.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/5181024.stm

I guess it couldn't get any simpler than that.

 

[Averroes]

Next to me sat a friendly looking Indian man in shorts and running shoes.

"Is this your first trip to China?" he asked me.

"No," I replied, "I live there."

"Really," he said, his interest piqued, "what should I expect?"

"I think," I said, "you should expect to be surprised."

=D interesting read. They are indeed vastly different.

I'd like to see comparison of Pakistan and China aswell.

As we emerged into the cool silence of the ultra-modern terminal, my new companion's jaw slid towards his belly button.

I'd think Indian international airport would be modern? Are they not? any indian here care to inform us? pictures.

Quaid e Azam international Airport is damn nice.

In Delhi, I had been shocked to see thousands of people sleeping rough on the streets every night, nothing but the few rags they slept in to call their own. Even deep in China's countryside that is not something you will see.

very unfortunate for hundreds of millions of indians

 

[master_fx]

u see china has always been the most powerful and advance nation throughtout its history... the west even admits that only the chinese Han empire could compete with the greatest Roman empire of all time.... lol
(marco polo went to china right? y wouldnt him go to india? lol)

 

[Jay_]

u see china has always been the most powerful and advance nation throughtout its history... the west even admits that only the chinese Han empire could compete with the greatest Roman empire of all time.... lol
(marco polo went to china right? y wouldnt him go to india? lol)

Ridiculous, China was in the bottom of the pack for the last 2 centuries, if its not for Deng, it still would be.

Ofcourse Marco Polo did visit India, so if you dont know history, you shud be quiet
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2001/07/01/html/ft_20010701.2.html

go figure

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Ehh, Jay, The Qing Dynasty won some wars against Russia and France.

 

[master_fx]

so does the Han dynasty where chinese defeated the barbarians invision while roman collapse.....

and during Ming dynasty where china sucessfully defeated the japs in korea!

 

[Jay_]

Ehh, Jay, The Qing Dynasty won some wars against Russia and France.

Sir,
Just a quick question, Manchu are considered Chinese? They are not from majority Han and they are nomads, right? If thats the case, my bad I just read about their history:smile:

I'll reduce my time line to 100 years, which is anyways insignificant in China's 2000 years of known civilization.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Difficult question to answer. There is no doubt that they're considered Chinese today but even as late as WWII when the Japanese set up Manchukuo, they considered themselves not to be Chinese and yet, they are without a doubt a very much Chinese dynasty.

There are many ways to view it. I don't consider Genghis Khan a Chinese and yet, many Chinese do.

Let me ask you this. Do you consider the last Mugal Emperor Indian?

 

[Jay_]

Sir,
Indeed a complicated question to answer. Some of the Mughal emperors deemed and lived as then Indians (like Akbar), while some did not(like Babar).

Likewise, Akbar got married to Hindu Rajput princess who gave birth to Jehangir, so essentially by blood the Moghuls assimilated with the locals.

Also the last Moghul emperor was Bahadur Shah and he was installed as the Emperor by the renegade Indian forces after 1857 Sepoy Mutiny, even before that the Maratta's supported Moghul rulers during 17th AD. So the answer is Yes and No. But Bahadur Shah is as Indian as my ancestors and his successors still live in India in absolute poverty :redface:

I guess since Manchu's still live in current China, as Chinese, Manchu dynasty infact can be categorized as Chinese.

Also, Babur was great grandson of Timur Lane, so I guess we can also claim the Mongol (Mughal) heritage like China

 

[master_fx]

trick question.....

 

[ali ahmad]

camparing india and china

india have some positive points
no doubt they are good in software industry.
they are good in t.v channels or you can say in media

there are some factors why they are

india have a open community or it is said to be a secular country although i personaly donot think so. but as compared to china you can say.

thats why they have open media.

on the other hand china is not a secular country and media is under control of government at that extent that they forced "google" to change their policy and forced them to seach only filtered data.

second is that both are relying largly on russia in technology.
in this case india is getting a advantage that they are getting it from usa also like recent nuclear deal while china have to do its own.

and the most important factor

china have a loyal and honest leadership while india have a bad record in thi factor. i think full credit goes to chinese leadership to take china at this point.

fouth is that india is continuously in war situation against pakistan and its hearting most their economy and also their agressive behaviour with their neibours.

while china have pretty good policy in this case also. i have read somewhere that chinese have decided to not become a part of any conflict before 2020.....it means that they are totally concentrating on their economy...

i will post some further analysis in this topic

 

[malhot]

It would not be correct to say that China does not have an aggresive policy against anyone- its constant threatening posturing toward Taiwan is a case to be noted. It crushed the Tibetian resistence, it even bans Fulong Gong members and massacared its own unarmed students for protesting in Tainamen square.

When new cities are to be built - people are chucked out of their homes - everything looks perfect, but internally people in China have no real freedom of action or speech. Revolts in the rural areas are crushed and the news is controlled. Nothing negative is allowed.

 

[sigatoka]

1. It would not be correct to say that China does not have an aggresive policy against anyone- its constant threatening posturing toward Taiwan is a case to be noted.

2. It crushed the Tibetian resistence, it even bans Fulong Gong members and massacared its own unarmed students for protesting in Tainamen square.

3. When new cities are to be built - people are chucked out of their homes - everything looks perfect,

4. but internally people in China have no real freedom of action or speech. Revolts in the rural areas are crushed and the news is controlled. Nothing negative is allowed.

1. Taiwan's leadership nailed their own coffins when they declared they were the rightful rulers of all of one united China. From the beginning they never claimed they were a separate state, only know when they have realised that it is impossible to rule mainland China and that their days of autonomy are limited have they been clamouring for independance.

2. Kashmir, Sikh temple and the pogroms in Gujarat?

3. Have you seen the slums of Bombay? There are very few people like that in China. The provision of housing is much better in China than India.

4. Freedom? What is freedom, is the freedom to live out of poverty, out of hunger and desperation any less valuable than the freedom to speak and act as one pleases? This is a philosophical question.