China-Pakistan : The End of the All-Weather Friendship?

[fly2012]

When I said that China must be tired of carrying dead weight(Pakistan) on it's back, he replied: "I remember when the world was split into the Warsaw Pact and the Allies, and China was stuck in between, Pakistan leant forwarded and took China by the arm. They introduced us to the global market, marketed our potential and used it's political standing to help us establish ourselves. Mother China is not so heartless so as to forget her friends in their time of need".
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Yesterday there's a thread saying the foundation of China-Pakistan relationship is to contain India. And I think a lot of Indians still believe so. I replied that if anyone knows the history of China between 1949-1979, he would't have said so. This is exactly what I meant. During cold war when the world abondoned China, only a few countries stand by China (Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Albania morally). Pakistan was the China's Window on the world and helped to end China's isolation by providing communication channels between US and China.

Good friendships are those don't start with mutual interests but strenghened by mutual interests. This is the exact model two countries enjoyed. Friendship doesn't mean there's no disagreement. A true friendship means that two parties are frank about their own opinions, look into their own situations and share the differences with good hearts. They give suggestions to others but don't poke other's internal affairs. And this is the reason that regardless of the major political changes happened in both countries, they still keep this all-wheather friendship.

I personally don't think providing aid is a healthy thing unless for emmergencies. African countries get aid from all over the world for ages, look where they are now? Also as CD mentioned, both countries are still developing countries, giving money away is not practical either. JF-17 working model is the best in my opinion. By joint research and joint ventures, the two countries share technical knowhows with reduced cost.

I see a lot of Indian members so early try to convince that the friendship is not genuine. Instead of this, why not trying to build good friendship with Pakistan by yourself? Afterall, India and Pakistan share some history and cultures. Did you ever see any Chinese members, including Hongwu, trying to tell Pakistani members here to hate India?

With all these said, I do see areas that need major improvement between Pakistan and China. I feel the leaders can and should provide incentives:

1. Economic cooperation in private sector, joint ventures etc.
2. More people and cultural exchange. Average person in both countries knows too little about the other.

 

[petarian8503]

@ RaptorRX707 bro lets not forget Gawader Port and its strategic value for Pakistan and China who is investing Billions in
Africa mining Industry in upcoming 5-10 years Africa to china via Gawader will be the most safe, eligible & economic route for
china to transport minerals shipments.

 

[StrikeForce]

Yesterday there's a thread saying the foundation of China-Pakistan relationship is to contain India. And I think a lot of Indians still believe so. I replied that if anyone knows the history of China between 1949-1979, he would't have said so. This is exactly what I meant. During cold war when the world abondoned China, only a few countries stand by China (Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Albania morally). Pakistan was the China's Window on the world and helped to end China's isolation by providing communication channels between US and China.

Good friendships are those don't start with mutual interests but strenghened by mutual interests. This is the exact model two countries enjoyed. Friendship doesn't mean there's no disagreement. A true friendship means that two parties are frank about their own opinions, look into their own situations and share the differences with good hearts. They give suggestions to others but don't poke other's internal affairs. And this is the reason that regardless of the major political changes happened in both countries, they still keep this all-wheather friendship.

I personally don't think providing aid is a healthy thing unless for emmergencies. African countries get aid from all over the world for ages, look where they are now? Also as CD mentioned, both countries are still developing countries, giving money away is not practical either. JF-17 working model is the best in my opinion. By joint research and joint ventures, the two countries share technical knowhows with reduced cost.

I see a lot of Indian members so early try to convince that the friendship is not genuine. Instead of this, why not trying to build good friendship with Pakistan by yourself? Afterall, India and Pakistan share some history and cultures. Did you ever see any Chinese members, including Hongwu, trying to tell Pakistani members here to hate India?

With all these said, I do see areas that need major improvement between Pakistan and China. I feel the leaders can and should provide incentives:

1. Economic cooperation in private sector, joint ventures etc.
2. More people and cultural exchange. Average person in both countries knows too little about the other.

You are talking about relations post 1949, Historically Pakistan was part of India for centuries, look where we are now(Indo-Pak relations)

Well the posting in the previous page is not discouraging Pakistan-China relationship, However Pakistan's only China concept might not be good for its success. As you rightly pointed out, African countries are getting welfare from nations for a long period and they dont seem to be improving for simple reason that they are not working on their economy.

Unless and until there is a genuine economic development happening within the country , no country can sustain. Good examples are How Japan revived after Nuclear attacks from US. The only way forward for development is Friendship and less friction and that can be built by trade.

My previous post has mentioned about US-China-Pakistan cooperation.

My idea is if it also involves India into its economical radar, This is more good mutually than having issues which we had through our insecurities for last 6 decades. I guess our politicians should talk over it at least once believing each other. And India should certainly help Pakistan and vice versa.

China-India trade is moving ahead from $60 billion to $100 Billion . Recent MFN status is a good initiative from Pakistan regarding India. Hope things will improve drastically for mutual benefit. This need initiatives from the political leadership of both countries as well. Hope everyone agrees.

 

[fly2012]

My idea is if it also involves India into its economical radar, This is more good mutually than having issues which we had through our insecurities for last 6 decades. I guess our politicians should talk over it at least once believing each other. And India should certainly help Pakistan and vice versa.

China-India trade is moving ahead from $60 billion to $100 Billion . Recent MFN status is a good initiative from Pakistan regarding India. Hope things will improve drastically for mutual benefit. This need initiatives from the political leadership of both countries as well. Hope everyone agrees.

I agree with that. As to Pakistan-India relationship I personally think India should take the lead as it is more powerful. Instead of just complainning about terrorist attach which Pakistan suffers itself, why not trying to be a big brother and take the positive lead?

China fought a bitter war against Soviet in 1969, roughly the same time as India-Pakistan's last major war (not counting 1998 skirmish). Nowadays there're loads of Russians visiting Chinese border cities everyday (and vise visa) and those Chinese cities look more Russian than Chinese.

As you said, 50 years can change a lot of things, in a good way or a bad way.

 

[ziaulislam]

The article shows the frustration and misconceptions of india..they behave extremly childish and think Pakistan is state like sikkam ..

the truth is known to all..its extremely childish and stupid to think that nations are friends without common interst..well exceptions are if their is a single man dictaorship/kingship or if its USA-Israeli relationship.
We all know china will remain a friend because of its reliance on pakistan in future to develop its land lock area..
second one which should be obvious to indians is that pakistan-china have declared their boarder, india claims area beyond the ecided boarder between us.

so for china to extend a few million dollars in AID or a few billion in defense is nothing..they are becoming one of he biggest donars in world..nearly 30 billion dollars of debt were cleared by them for african nations..so i dont see what bothers them..
to be honest giving a few aircrfts to pakistan or allowing pakistani defense to grow is is a double bonas for them..one they can create a reliable ally important for their strageic resources, second they can counter india at a free ..


we unfortunaetly know that its extremly childish and foolish to expect any friendship with india..after an unprovacked incidence of 1971 how can you expect indi to allow area it claim to be with pakistan..when it was so eager to attack area that was not controversial/undecided

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are talking about relations post 1949, Historically Pakistan was part of India for centuries, look where we are now(Indo-Pak relations)

Well the posting in the previous page is not discouraging Pakistan-China relationship, However Pakistan's only China concept might not be good for its success. As you rightly pointed out, African countries are getting welfare from nations for a long period and they dont seem to be improving for simple reason that they are not working on their economy.

Unless and until there is a genuine economic development happening within the country , no country can sustain. Good examples are How Japan revived after Nuclear attacks from US. The only way forward for development is Friendship and less friction and that can be built by trade.

My previous post has mentioned about US-China-Pakistan cooperation.

My idea is if it also involves India into its economical radar, This is more good mutually than having issues which we had through our insecurities for last 6 decades. I guess our politicians should talk over it at least once believing each other. And India should certainly help Pakistan and vice versa.

China-India trade is moving ahead from $60 billion to $100 Billion . Recent MFN status is a good initiative from Pakistan regarding India. Hope things will improve drastically for mutual benefit. This need initiatives from the political leadership of both countries as well. Hope everyone agrees.

I stopped read ur post after the first line... my ancestors were never indians... so stop whining... Baluchistan,KPK,Punjab,Sindh,Gilgit Baltistan,kashmir were all different KINGDOMS or Emirates not part of india...

I agree with that. As to Pakistan-India relationship I personally think India should take the lead as it is more powerful. Instead of just complainning about terrorist attach which Pakistan suffers itself, why not trying to be a big brother and take the positive lead?
China fought a bitter war against Soviet in 1969, roughly the same time as India-Pakistan's last major war (not counting 1998 skirmish). Nowadays there're loads of Russians visiting Chinese border cities everyday (and vise visa) and those Chinese cities look more Russian than Chinese.

As you said, 50 years can change a lot of things, in a good way or a bad way.

We dnt accept the indian "big brother" bs... we are not sri lanka or bangladesh ... so shove the big brother attitude where sun doesnt shine....



As for AID ... tht we dnt need aid... its shamefull tht our b....d govt accepts aid... we dont want aid.. we want trade... and indians cant keep ranting how our frndship with china is not true n all tht... seriously we dnt give a shyt!