China offers home-made, though outdated, copters to India

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Domestic industry still struggles with outdated technology, analysts say

China is keen to expand its fast-growing indigenous helicopter industry by reaching out to the Indian market, People’s Liberation Army (PLA) officials said on Tuesday.

The PLA for the first time showcased its Z-9 armed reconnaissance helicopters as it opened its fourth regiment — its first armed helicopter unit — to foreign journalists.

PLA colonels and pilots spoke of both the advantages and difficulties China has faced in developing and relying on home-grown helicopters.

China has, so far, struggled to sell its Z-9 and the more advanced Z-11 helicopters, relying on Pakistan and a few African countries as export destinations. But officials said they said they believed their technology was “fast improving”.

“We are happy to sell these helicopters to India and other countries,” said PLA Colonel Yu Guo Yi.

But India, analysts said, is unlikely to show any interest, with China still relying on outdated expertise. This is in the face of persisting arms embargoes that have restricted access to new technologies from the West since the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989.

The 20-year-old Z-9, for instance, was developed following a licensing agreement with France, based on its older Eurocopter models. The helicopters, still very much in use by the PLA, began being rolled out in 1991 from a manufacturing base in north-eastern Harbin. A variant is being used by the Pakistani Navy.

China, like India, has also relied on Russian helicopters, widely using Mi-17s. But renewed Russian reservations have limited Chinese access to technology.

“Russians have concerns, and feel that China could pose a challenge to them 15, 20 years down the line,” said Srikanth Kondapalli, an expert on the Chinese military at Jawaharlal Nehru University. “They are reluctant to give them strategic technologies which could make them self-sufficient”. As a result, agreements, that reached US $20 billion in 1990 have trickled to around US$ 1 billion today.

India has also been looking to upgrade its helicopters, particularly after a number of accidents. Recent deals with the United States to purchase Apache helicopters have looked to update the aging fleet.

“The Chinese have nothing in that class,” Professor Kondapalli noted.

“India is looking for fourth generation now, but China is still at second or third generation.”

That, however, may soon change. At the PLA’s fourth regiment base in Tongzhou — an eastern Beijing suburb — officers spoke of sweeping changes the army had seen in the past two decades. Once relying on old French and Russian aircraft, the PLA is now looking to induct widely its more advanced Z-11 home-grown helicopters that are a source of pride to the military.

“The biggest change since I joined the army in 1989 is that now, we can totally depend on ourselves to make our helicopters,” said Group Captain Liu Hao (48), who has clocked 2,400 hours of flying time.

Resting his hands on a still-hot Z-9 — after he took it through gravity-defying manoeuvres — he spoke of the benefits of not having to rely on foreign technology.

“We don’t need to import materials and depend on foreign countries making these planes any more,” he said. “Now, we depend only on ourselves.”

source:The Hindu : News / International : China offers home-made, though outdated, copters to India

 

[Abingdonboy]

Good for them but I am certain we won't see Z-9s in IAF/IA colours anytime soon, like the article said- they're outdated. If India wanted such machines it would go straight to the horse's mouth (Eurocopter) and have them made on licence by HAL and could probably get a newer version with uprated engines and avionics. Idk how this question came up but I'm sure the officer said this knowing full well that India is highly unlikely to ever consider this. As it stands India is looking elsewhere (Europe and at home) for such solutions.

 

[ajtr]

china can provide to maoist if it want.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Good for them but I am certain we won't see Z-9s in IAF/IA colours anytime soon, like the article said- they're outdated. If India wanted such machines it would go straight to the horse's mouth (Eurocopter) and have them made on licence by HAL and could probably get a newer version with uprated engines and avionics. Idk how this question came up but I'm sure the officer said this knowing full well that India is highly unlikely to ever consider this. As it stands India is looking elsewhere (Europe and at home) for such solutions.

Dhruv is enough for such requirements like SAR etc. India is self sufficient when it come to light and medium weight helicopters.

 

[Fanling Monk]

This is in the face of persisting arms embargoes that have restricted access to new technologies from the West since the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989.



The West has restricted our rise for decades, if not centuries, with one excuse or the other. We must realize their final aim is for us to remain in the bottom of the international society, dirt poor and weak. No matter, we should not let them discourage our effort of working hard. Let's spend a healthy sum on RD and human capital and soon or later we get where we want to go. If others can develop new technologies, so can we.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is in the face of persisting arms embargoes that have restricted access to new technologies from the West since the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989.



The West has restricted our rise for decades, if not centuries, with one excuse or the other. We must realize their final aim is for us to remain in the bottom of the international society, dirt poor and weak. No matter, we should not let them discourage our effort of working hard. Let's spend a healthy sum on RD and human capital and soon or later we get where we want to go. If others can develop new technologies, so can we.

Hardly the Z-9 is a license-built version of the French Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin, built in China from components supplied by Aérospatiale (now EADS).

 

[Fanling Monk]

Hardly the Z-9 is a license-built version of the French Eurocopter AS365 Dauphin, built in China from components supplied by Aérospatiale (now EADS).

I was talking about technology in general. If someone can build it, so can we soon or later, with our human resources and capital. Technology can be, as it shown through out history, independently develops and we have advantages because there are existing guidelines in which we can follow.

 

[Abhishek_]

I was talking about technology in general. If someone can build it, so can we soon or later, with our human resources and capital. Technology can be, as it shown through out history, independently develops and we have advantages because there are existing guidelines in which we can follow.

It can also be stolen, just sayin'

 

[Abingdonboy]

I was talking about technology in general. If someone can build it, so can we soon or later, with our human resources and capital. Technology can be, as it shown through out history, independently develops and we have advantages because there are existing guidelines in which we can follow.

Well it seemed like you were being specific about Z-9. But if I take your word, why are you psoting this general post about China in this particular thread in this particular section?

 

[Fanling Monk]

Well it seemed like you were being specific about Z-9. But if I take your word, why are you psoting this general post about China in this particular thread in this particular section?

I was posting to a line in the OP's article, it's not such a big deal, is it?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I was posting to a line in the OP's article, it's not such a big deal, is it?

Nah mate, carry on!

 

[Fanling Monk]

TONGZHOU, China -- China showed off an elite helicopter unit to foreign media on Tuesday in its latest bid to address concerns about its growing military might amid increasingly aggressive moves to assert its sovereignty over the South China Sea.

China organizes annual tours of military bases to try to assuage those concerns and to answer criticism over a perceived lack of transparency, but officials refused to answer any contentious questions.

While the Defense Ministry announced over the weekend it would set up a formal military garrison for the South China Sea, officers accompanying reporters to the Tongzhou base in Beijing's far east avoided the issue.

“Our military's aim is to protect peace. The training exercises we carry out are normal and in line with what we always do,” Zhang Zhilin, the jocular commander of the Army Aviation 4th Helicopter Regiment, told reporters.

China has conflicting claims with the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan across the South China Sea, key shipping lanes thought to contain rich energy reserves.

Asked about whether he and his comrades could or would deploy to the South China Sea, Zhang answered simply: “Our deployments are decided by the higher ups.”

His unit, which operates Harbin Z-9 attack helicopters, a licensed-built version of the Eurocopter Dauphin II, as well as older Russian Mil Mi-17 transport helicopters, also flies China's astronauts back to base when they return to Earth.

China's helicopter program made headlines last month when United Technologies Corp said it had sold China software that helped Beijing develop its first modern military attack helicopter, the Z-10.

Western experts say the Z-10, first delivered to China's People's Liberation Army in 2009, is developing into one of the world's most modern and capable combat helicopters.

Zhang said he was unaware of that case, though admitted he would like more advanced hardware.

“Of course we hope that our work environment becomes better and better,” he said. “It's like driving a car, like the difference between driving a jeep and a much better car.”

China has advertised its long-term military ambitions with shows of new hardware, including its first test flight of a stealth fighter jet in early 2011 and the launch of a fledgling aircraft carrier in August.

China is boosting military spending by 11.2 percent this year, bringing official outlays on the People's Liberation Army to 670.3 billion yuan (US$100 billion) for 2012, after a 12.7-percent increase last year and a near-unbroken string of double-digit rises across two decades.

Beijing's public budget is widely thought by foreign experts to undercount its real spending on military modernization, which has unnerved Asian neighbors and drawn repeated calls from Washington for China to share more about its intentions.

“Do you really think we're not transparent? Actually we're extremely transparent,” Defense Ministry spokesman Geng Yansheng told reporters on the base's sun-baked concrete apron, brushing off such remarks.

“This is the fifth time we have organized such a trip and we will continue doing so.”

'Transparent' China shows off elite chopper - The China Post

 

[sexy gun]

Why is China always playing the victim card ?

More than 100000 young people with their entire future lying in front of them were shot down mercilessly at point blank range ? Is it even debatable that who pulled off this dastardly act ?

 

[Hulk]

Well thanks China, but if we have to get cheap helicopters. I will prefer Russian.
1) They have better experience in making helicopters and will be only a notch costly.
2) We have better relationship with them.

 

[sexy gun]

while we operate top of the line helis or are about to, if chinese think that their Z-11s are truly world class, then why not let our hands on it ?