China has 800 million middle class?

[CardSharp]

Isn't China's unemployment ridiculously low (4&#37 even compared to a health American economy?

 

[Thomas]

Isn't China's unemployment ridiculously low (4&#37 even compared to a health American economy?

4% is the official state figure. The article says actual figures are much higher. China is notorious for under reporting anything it perceives negative. The U.S. unemployment figures for July is around 9.5%. I was just reading an article this morning that the Euro zone (those using the Euro) is around 10%.

 

[CardSharp]

4% is the official state figure. The article says actual figures are much higher. China is notorious for under reporting anything it perceives negative. The U.S. unemployment figures for July is around 9.5%. I was just reading an article this morning that the Euro zone (those using the Euro) is around 10%.

Actually I would not be surprise if the unemployment were that low. There is no social safety net and welfare jockeys in China. You don't work, you don't eat, and that's a pretty powerful motivator.

 

[huzihaidao12]

4% is the official state figure. The article says actual figures are much higher. China is notorious for under reporting anything it perceives negative. The U.S. unemployment figures for July is around 9.5%. I was just reading an article this morning that the Euro zone (those using the Euro) is around 10%.

The United States is notorious failure for almost all the content is not optimistic about China's economy.You still do not know where the problem lies, I will not surprised.

 

[lcloo]

Below are Times Magazine Headlines on China news I just copy from Asia Times

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101020617/cover2.html

Judge for yourself their reports are objective or bias.


COVER STORY
The Grapes of Wrath
The economy has been expanding madly, but not fast enough to stave off a gigantic wave of joblessness. The human toll is grim—and the threat to China's stability looks increasingly dire.

China's New Opium War
Drugs were the scourge of pre-communist China. Today the country is using again — and producing too.

Does Hu Jintao have what it takes to guide the nation into a potentially explosive future?


Xinjiang: One Nation Divided
Beijing's anti-Muslim crackdown and decades of repression have made native Uighurs strangers in their own land



Flash Points and Hot Spots
China's coastal cities boom with electronics factories, but layoffs are soaring in the industrialized northeast.

 

[below_freezing]

4% is the official state figure. The article says actual figures are much higher. China is notorious for under reporting anything it perceives negative. The U.S. unemployment figures for July is around 9.5%. I was just reading an article this morning that the Euro zone (those using the Euro) is around 10%.

when was the last time we were proven to have underreported anything? US is notorious for coverups.

 

[CardSharp]

Below are Times Magazine Headlines on China news I just copy from Asia Times

TIME Magazine: China - Labor Lost

Judge for yourself their reports are objective or bias.


COVER STORY
The Grapes of Wrath
The economy has been expanding madly, but not fast enough to stave off a gigantic wave of joblessness. The human toll is grim—and the threat to China's stability looks increasingly dire.

China's New Opium War
Drugs were the scourge of pre-communist China. Today the country is using again — and producing too.

Does Hu Jintao have what it takes to guide the nation into a potentially explosive future?


Xinjiang: One Nation Divided
Beijing's anti-Muslim crackdown and decades of repression have made native Uighurs strangers in their own land



Flash Points and Hot Spots
China's coastal cities boom with electronics factories, but layoffs are soaring in the industrialized northeast.

It is interesting that the article Thomas posted (he's not really bashing China I know) started off with a human interest sob story. While these things are tragic, I'd much rather have economic statistics that are sourced and analysis of the situation based on macro economic facts.

 

[Thomas]

when was the last time we were proven to have underreported anything? US is notorious for coverups.

In the U.S. Job and employment statistics are public record. And with a free press that is not hindered in criticizing the Government. There is never a lack of investigative journalists willing to put the Governments feet to the fire. Not so in China, and as a result it is much harder to definitively prove exact figures. However the experts, economists, researchers, intelligence experts, ECT. can get fairly close.

Take a look at this report from 2004 and it will explain how some of those figures are derived in comparison to official state ones. It also tells how the state arrives at it's figures and why it is not accurate.

http://www.economics.ox.ac.uk/members/albert.park/papers/unemployment.pdf

Sometimes the under reporting can lead to tragic consequences. Such as when China under reported how sever the flu was in years past.
Is China Cooking the Books on H1N1 Cases? - CBS Evening News - CBS News

Other examples of under reporting is the Chinese defense budget. Though this is done more out of secrecy.
Military budget of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[oceanx]

4% is the official state figure. The article says actual figures are much higher. China is notorious for under reporting anything it perceives negative. The U.S. unemployment figures for July is around 9.5%. I was just reading an article this morning that the Euro zone (those using the Euro) is around 10%.

The PRC has a habit of under-reporting many things ... history is proof enough.

I for one (as do many) believe that the PRC fudges numbers - that's not to discount any genuine progress. It's simply "tradition".

But when the Yanks fudge, it's carried out differently ... when they don't like the numbers, they "modify" the rules by which these numbers are arrived at. You see that in inflation (CPI), unemployment # reporting, etc ...

What's worse? Changing rules or "Massaging" numbers?

 

[below_freezing]

The PRC has a habit of under-reporting many things ... history is proof enough.

I for one (as do many) believe that the PRC fudges numbers - that's not to discount any genuine progress. It's simply "tradition".

But when the Yanks fudge, it's carried out differently ... when they don't like the numbers, they "modify" the rules by which these numbers are arrived at. You see that in inflation (CPI), unemployment # reporting, etc ...

What's worse? Changing rules or "Massaging" numbers?

people shot to death = lead poisoning

their general getting thrown out of a truck and dying because it had to dodge artillery shell sometime in 1950's = "unfortunate car accident"

 

[Nomenclature]

800 million middle class in China,that's ridiculous.Even 80 million is impossible.
How many people can bear a double-decked house in China?

No sense in comparing China to the U.S in this regard. It's dangerous if all Chinese want to live like Americans, not only China has a lot less space (per people), suburban living also means very high energy consumption.

Europe/Japan are better points of reference for China.

 

[Nomenclature]

I agree the middle class is shrinking all over the world. It is not just a china phenom.

Middle class definitely isn't shrinking in China in the last two years. A lot of middle class Chinese probably can't even feel any effect of world financial crisis unless they happen to work for a foreign company.

Last year I went to a family gathering. I was talking about the financial crisis and one of my aunts said 'oh, that's why the government is handing out rebates for buying new cars and flat screen TVs. I hope the crisis never stops!'

Isn't China's unemployment ridiculously low (4%) even compared to a health American economy?

I think the Chinese figure is for urban residents only. A lot of rural Chinese are in half-employment, that is officially they are farmers but they don't have enough land to work full time. Expect the unemployment rate to be higher once mass urbanization begins this decade.

But then again, urbanization will create a lot of service jobs too. Services industry is more labour intensive than manufacturing, which is generally more capital intensive than labour intensive.

 

[CardSharp]

Europe/Japan are better points of reference for China.

Suburbia and the 4 bed 3 bath house is a uniquely American and Canadian phenomenon due to a couple of factors

1) More space than anyone knows what to do with
2) A strong car culture
3) Crime and drug use in the inner city (more so in US than Canada, just look at Chicago and St. Louis)

 

[Nomenclature]

Suburbia and the 4 bed 3 bath house is a uniquely American and Canadian phenomenon due to a couple of factors

1) More space than anyone knows what to do with
2) A strong car culture
3) Crime and drug use in the inner city (more so in US than Canada, just look at Chicago and St. Louis)

Need to add Aussies and Kiwis into the mix.

I doubt most Chinese dreaming about living in huge detached houses are aware of the amount of house/gardening works involved in maintaining such an estate.

 

[CardSharp]

Need to add Aussies and Kiwis into the mix.

I doubt most Chinese dreaming about living in huge detached houses are aware of the amount of house/gardening works involved in maintaining such an estate.

It's actually more or less mandatory gardening too, because your neighbours expect you to maintain a certain standard of care because otherwise the whole neigbourhood would look bad and that could affect the real estate price of the area.