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China firm offers $50b for hydro projects

Pakistan should take loan and make these hydro power plant....if chinese will make these plants...they will own these plants and milk money from Pakistan
 
Pakistan should also be considering how to clean its fresh water resources because today this is also a major concern.

The main water sources in Pakistan are rivers, glaciers, rainfall and groundwater. The rainfall pattern is extreme due to the varied topography of the country. Average rainfall is between 50 to 1000 mm but in the isolated northern mountains it may exceed 2000 mm. On the other hand the dry areas receive less than 125 mm on an average. Almost 75% of the country receive less than 250 mm annually. The rainfall is dependent on the two monsoon seasons, the most important being the Southwestern monsoon between June to September. The high temperatures mean that there is high evaporation, which leads to loss of water everywhere.

Pakistan occupies the basin of three major rivers, which is of considerable importance to the country. Indus (70% of total land area), Kharan closed basin (15% of the total land area) and the Makran coastal basin (15% of the total land area) are the three basins, with the Indus basin representing the largest potential. It mainly draws its water from snowmelt and precipitation. The surface waters of the rivers have not been exploited, as they are seasonal and irregular. The Indus Water Treaty (1960) between India and Pakistan has restricted Pakistan's access to the water in the Indus basin, to the Indus, Chenab and Jhelum rivers. The combined annual average flow of these and River Kabul is 178 bil cu m ( Asim R. Khan, M. Kaleem Ullah, Saim Muhammad ). The country also boasts the largest contiguous irrigation system in the world, comprising the Indus, its tributaries, 19 barrages and headworks, and 43 canals (Dr. Noor Ahmad Memon- The News- Rawalpindi Islamabad-26/01/98).

Around 90% of the food and fibre production depend on irrigation. Irrigated land is 82.3% of the total arable land and surface water is mainly relied upon for irrigation. The irrigation water available per irrigated acre has risen to 35% from the 1960s. Out of the water tapped from the Indus basin, only 30% actually reaches the roots of the crop. The majority is either lost in canals or when it is being applied to the fields (PNCS- Where we are, where we should be and how to get there ). 90% of the groundwater is already being used through tube-wells. In any case, groundwater has a higher salt content. When it is used in fields it leaves behind a high level of salts after evaporation, thus increasing soil salinity. According to certain researches, operational water losses are 50 - 60% with the majority occurring in fields, canals and water courses (The News - Islamabad-26/01/98).

Considering Pakistan's environmental scenario, it becomes increasingly obvious that water issues are the most pressing. Human health, agriculture, rangelands, forests, waterbodies, and aquatic life, in fact the whole ecosystem is affected by problems associated with water. Not only is there a scarcity of drinking water but pollution of water bodies by effluents from industries and the sewerage system have compounded the problem.

Freshwater Pollution

Chemical waste:

Almost all chemical waste is dumped untreated into the river system from where it is taken out to sea. A large number of industries discharge deadly and toxic waste into storm-drains, open nullahs or in the Lyari and Malir rivers. These include leather tanning units, pharmaceuticals, petrochemicals, refineries, chemical, textile, paper and pulp, engineering works and thermal power plants. The Lyari River has become a putrid and toxic gutter due to discharge of effluents. Solid waste also finds its way into the water system. The first environmental assessment study in the country was conducted at the SITE industrial area to record the effect of industrial wastewater on Karachi's vegetation (Dr. S.A. Qadir). The chemical analysis revealed that there were traces of heavy metals such as chromium and nickel in the vegetable samples. Invariably, this showed that that the industries were not using any pollution control measures whatsoever. Untreated industrial waste is not only affecting the environment but ultimately is also having its toll on the country's health, by polluting the water bodies. This renders them useless for human consumption and irrigation. Consequently, it is responsible for the many water borne diseases that plague the country and account for 60% of infant deaths.

The industrial waste is also used to irrigate some vegetable and fruit farms that have cropped up in the Korangi Industrial Area. These fruit and vegetables show a presence of metals and other toxins. A study conducted by IUCN suggests that spinach from Korangi farms contains as much as 87.48 mg/l of chromium (Bhagwandas - Dawn 7/01/98), a lot more than that harvested in other areas.

Sewage:

The discharge of sewage and contaminated water in rivers and water bodies not only affects marine production, use of such water for agriculture results in the contamination of the food chain. In Pakistan, sewage water is re-channelled to irrigate crops, which contaminates them with pathogens. As a result 50% of the crops are contaminated. Groundwater may also be contaminated by untreated sewage. Water borne diseases are the largest killers in the country and health problems resulting from polluted water cost a large amount of money.

Karachi produces discharge of wastewater of 300 mil gallons per day and Lahore 240 mil gallons per day. There are three sewerage plants in Karachi but they are able to treat only 45 MGD (15% of the total wastewater). Of particular interest are the rivers Ravi and Kabul. They have sustained life for thousands of years and the historical city of Lahore is based around the Ravi. Today, Lahore and Peshawar discharge their wastewater into these rivers increasing their BOD level to 193-100mg/l for Ravi. The level allowed by the NEQS is 80 mg/l! There is an annual loss of 5000 tonnes of fish catch from this river. No life exists in it for 7 miles downstream.

Agricultural run-off/pesticides:

Indiscriminate use of pesticides and fertilisers ensure that agricultural run-off from fields also contributes to water pollution. Extensive use of agricultural chemicals has already started affecting aquifers.

The climate of the country ranges from heat, humidity and rainfall, either resulting in arid lands or providing favourable conditions for irrigated agriculture. This in turn means a thriving pest population. Estimates suggest that around one-third of the yield is destroyed by pests or disease (Karam Ahad and Dr. Yousuf Hayat Khan -The News, Rawalpindi Islamabad, 12-01-1998). To overcome this problem, pesticides have developed into a major agricultural product (80 % are used on cotton alone). Introduced in 1954 at the onset of the green revolution, pesticide consumption in Pakistan rose from 3677 metric tonnes in 1981 to 14745 metric tonnes in 1991. In rupee terms this equalled 4581 million rupees. By 1996 this had gone up to 43219 metric tonnes, Rs. 9987 million (Karam Ahad and Dr. Yousuf Hayat Khan -The News, Rawalpindi Islamabad, 12-01-1998). An exhaustive study conducted by the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) of the United Nations found that pesticide use in Pakistan increased 1,169 percent between 1981 and 1999.

When DDT (Dichloro Diphenyl Trichloroethane) was first made in the 1880s it was considered a 'magical' insecticide. Chemist Paul Miller introduced it for the first time in 1938, an act that resulted in a Nobel Prize for him. At that time it helped to save millions of people from typhus and malaria (Karam Ahad and Dr. Yousuf Hayat Khan -The News, Rawalpindi Islamabad, 12-01-1998). Insecticides and pesticides thus became popular both as fight against diseases as well as saving crops from pests. It took around forty years to strike, that these substances also had side effects after Racheal Carson published Silent Spring, in 1962. It soon became apparent that new pests with greater resistance were emerging in addition to soil, air and water being contaminated and predators of the pests being eliminated. The environment and biodiversity of the planet was being destroyed which ultimately might have more adverse consequences.

A World Health Organisation (WHO) study revealed that two million people suffered from pesticide poisoning and 40,000 die per year. Most of these were from developing countries, which have been urged to buy pesticides from corporations from the developed world. The pesticides are carcinogenic and mutagenic causing sterility, low fertility, skin cancer, immune and hormonal system disorder. In Pakistan, pesticide residues have been found in water, soil and even food commodities. The situation is worse here because many of these are either sold under generic names or are fake and adulterated.

Marine Pollution

The seas have been used as dumps for ages, mainly due to the misconception that they are so large, whatever is put into them gets diluted. However, the truth of the matter is that most of the contaminated water entering the sea has a density different to that of the natural seawater. This means that it does not mix and in fact settles down at the bottom of the ocean as sludge, which may be 1.5 foot deep in certain areas (Bhagwandas - Dawn - 7/01/98).

Much of the water from the rivers finds its way down to the sea, taking with it all the toxic effluents. There have been major changes in the coastal environment in the last 200 years. Some of them are due to natural causes such as the gradual change in course of the River Indus, which moved to the southeast of Karachi. Main causes are diverting the water of the river for irrigation and extensive pollution. The coastal pollution is mainly confined to the Karachi Harbour, which encloses an area of 62 km 2 . It stretches from sandspit in the west to Chinna Creek in the east. A variety of effluents from domestic sources, and waste from visiting ships (estimated 2,500 annually) all contribute to the depressing state of the harbour especially around the Manora Channel. The Karachi Nuclear Power Plant (KANUPP) uses 150,000 gallons of seawater for cooling. Liquid waste and hot water from the plant is subsequently discharged into the sea.

Domestic sources of marine pollution:

Metal scrap
Rust from shipping yard
Oil and liquid waste from fish processing plants
Industrial effluents
Solid waste
Spillage of grains
Visiting ships:

Waste oil
Deck washing
Garbage
Oil:

It is estimated that 90,000 tonnes of oil products from vessels and port terminals are dumped into the harbour every year. In addition, there is also the threat of oil pollution from other countries especially the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf.

Sewage:

An estimated 200 million gallons (Environmental Assessment and Protection of Karachi Harbour, Neville Burt 1997) of raw sewage enters Karachi harbour mainly through Lyari River and Chinna Creek. There is no non-saline (freshwater) input except for the local run-off from rainfall.

Solid Waste:

Plastic bags are found all over the harbour and are not only an eyesore but also damaging to marine life. A wide-diversity of garbage including wood and plastic are also apparent. The garbage originates from the municipal waste and port activities. Water circulation and wind driven currents concentrate this in certain parts of the harbour, making it unsightly and dangerous to ships as it can get stuck in propellers. It can be expected that there is also significant amount of solid waste, which will have sunk to the bed of the harbour (Environmental Assessment and Protection of Karachi Harbour, Neville Burt 1997).

Toxic metals:

According to a PCSIR (1999) study, huge amounts of toxic metals have been found in the marine life, such as fish, lobster, crabs and shrimp. The metals include mercury, cadmium, chromium, lead, arsenic, and zinc. Many of these metals are carcinogens and can cause genetic deformities and other fatal diseases. They are mainly released by the industrial estates. Hardly 2% of these industries have the facilities to treat their effluents before releasing.

The results of all of these pollutants are that microorganisms (planktons) consume them and they enter the food chain. An IUCN study of fishmeal (made of locally caught fish) used as feed for poultry discovered that it had 33 ppm of chromium. High levels of chromium were found in chicken and eggs as well (Bhagwandas - Dawn - 7/01/98).
LAND

Land degradation puts countless obstacles in the sustainable production capacity of the agriculture sector. Wind and water erosion, waterlogging and salinity, deforestation and desertification all accelerate the degradation process.

Deforestation

"The world is green and beautiful and God has appointed you his stewards over it. He sees how you acquit yourselves " (Muslim)

Forests, scrub and planted trees on farmland constitute about 4.2 million hectares (4.8%) of the country (Forest Sector Master Plan GOP 1992 from Environmental Profile of Pakistan 1998). The majority (40%) of the forests are either coniferous or scrub. Irrigated plantations and riverine & coastal forests make up the rest. 1.78 million hectares is covered by hill forests which include species such as deodar, fir, blue pine, spruce, juniper, chir pine, oak and horse chestnut (The Nature of Pakistan). These forests grow in the watershed areas protecting the fragile mountain ecosystem and helping abate floods and droughts. They are a major source of timber, fuelwood and resin and this, coupled with the increasing grazing requirements is posing a major threat.

The foothill forests (comprising acacia and kau) are also subjected to over-grazing. Shisham and mulberry (in Punjab) and babul and eucalyptus (in Sindh) make up the man-made irrigated forests and are mainly used for fuelwood and timber for the furniture and sports-goods industries.

Although different figures suggest that the per capita use of timber is the lowest in the world, the declining rate of woody biomass is the second highest in the world. Two studies have shown that it is between 4%-6% per year (GOP 1992, Hosier 1993 from Biodiversity Action Plan). Almost 7,000 to 9,000 hectares are deforested every year and this rate is especially severe in the north where the per capita consumption for fuelwood is 10 times higher due to the severe winter. The following factors are the main causes of deforestation.

Fuelwood

According to the two studies, consumption for household firewood exceeds production in all provinces except the Northern Areas, which are sparsely populated. Due to the increase in population, consumption would probably go up to 3% per year. Pakistan's woody biomass may be totally consumed within the next 10-15 years.

Timber

Another adverse factor is the lopping of trees for commercial purposes. Pakistan has a thriving timber market and many a time; illegal logging takes place to support the market and to make a fast buck. The high price of timber has greatly accelerated forest depletion.

The timber business goes back to colonial times. After partition when the princely states such as Chitral, Dir, and Swat were abolished, the change in rule created a vacuum in the management of the forests. This accelerated the depletion of the reserves. The state had the legal ownership of the forests, however, it disregarded the needs of the local people. While under princely rule, the emphasis of forest management was on supporting the local economy, now it shifted to being a revenue-generating source for the government. Investment in forest conservation was inconsequential as compared to their harvest.

Livestock grazing

Unrestricted livestock grazing is also a severe threat. Trees have always been chopped down to allow grass to grow, in order to feed livestock. In some cases forests are set on fire for this purpose also and the rate has gone beyond sustainability in many areas. In addition forests are also cleared for agriculture.

Regional case studies also portray a dismal picture. A study of the Siran project area (Hazara, NWFP), shows a 52% decline in the resource between 1967 and 1992. If this continues at the present pace, the Siran forests will disappear by the year 2005 (Archer 1996). Similar cases are present in the Kaghan Valley and Allai Valley. Plantation survival rates are well below the 75 % target set by the Household Energy Strategy Study (HESS).

There is a similar trend present in the mangrove forests of the Indus Delta, which has halved from 2,600 square kilometres in the late 1970s to 1,300 in the 1990s. The depletion is mainly due to the grazing by camels (16,000) owned by the local communities and consumption as fuelwood.

The scrub forest is mainly consumed for grazing, especially in the winter, and reduced water allocation is adversely affecting riverine forests. 50% of the original riverine forests have been degenerated beyond economic viability.

More than half of the remaining mangroves forests, more than two-thirds of riverain forests and more than nine -tenths of remaining coniferous forests have less than 50% cover

These are government figures and discrepancy is usually found in government and actual figures as the government defines figures according to legal rather than biological criteria.

Desertification

Desertification is a process that turns productive land into non-productive desert. It occurs mainly in semi-arid areas (mean rainfall less than 600 mm) bordering on deserts. The arid and semi-arid rangelands in Pakistan show signs of being strained. The threat of overgrazing, over-harvesting and overstocking of the natural vegetation is aggravating the situation. The change in grazing practices has virtually reduced some areas in the Cholistan desert to sand dunes. According to one estimate more than 60% of the natural grazing areas of the country have production levels lower than one third of their biological potential. More than one-third of the country has been classified as under risk of desertification (45 million hectares). Deforestation, over cultivation, excessive cutting of fuelwood and incorrect irrigation practices all have a share in this problem.

Soil Erosion

Around 15.9 million hectares of land (18% of total) affected by soil erosion. Out of this, 11,172,000 hectares affected by water erosion, while 4760,000 hectares affected by wind erosion.

Soil erosion is taking place at an alarming rate and is mainly due to deforestation in the north. Water erosion is prominent on steep slopes such as the Potohar track and surrounding areas, an area extensively used for cultivation. Water erosion and poor land management is also affecting watersheds in the upper Indus River and its tributaries. The highest recorded rate of erosion is in the Indus catchment between the Tarbela reservoir and 90 - km upstream where soil loss is estimated to be 150-165 tonnes/hectare/year. Overall, 28% of soil is being lost to water. 14% of the storage capacity of Tarbela was lost within 10 years of being completed. The Indus River carried the fifth largest load of sediment (4.49t/h) in the world in 1990. According to some estimates the Indus is adding 500,000 tonnes of sediment to the Tarbela Reservoir every day, reducing the life of the dam by 22% and the capacity of reservoir by 16%.

Wind erosion has a relatively lower impact than water erosion. However, the combination of the two is more devastating. This reduces the productivity of the land by 1.5-7.5% per year. This affects almost one-fifth of the Punjab.

Waterlogging and Salinity

These problems usually occur together and are a result of intensive and continuous use of surface irrigation. Some experts consider them more important than soil erosion because they occur in the most productive areas of the Indus Basin. More than 2 million hectares of land is waterlogged (JRC 1989d), and the inefficient historical planning of the irrigation system is the culprit. It is 100 years old with unlined canals, resulting in the seepage of water into the topsoil,. Salinity usually follows. When the water evaporates the salts are left behind and the area becomes unfit for agriculture. In over 25% of the Indus basin the water table has risen to 2 m of the soil surface, resulting inn 40,000 hectares of land being lost annually to both these problems. In some areas it has gone up to I m. Over 5.7 million hectares of land are salt affected and 2.4 million hectares is highly saline according to the Soil Survey of Pakistan. The soil of 13.6 million hectares within the Gross Command Area was surveyed, which revealed that 3.1 million hectares (23%) was saline. 23% of this was in Sindh and 13% in the Punjab.

Waterlogging and salinity pose serious threats to the primarily agricultural economy and may also affect the remaining forests in the basin. In any case, the increase in this problem could mean the clearing up of the adjacent forests to make room for more agricultural land.

Because of the gravity of the situation, measures have been taken to rectify this problem as a result of which a large area of land has been reclaimed through the Salinity Control and Reclamation Programmes

Area of the Forest

Forest Area (million hectares)
Total forests, scrub and planted trees 4.2
Natural and modified coniferous scrub, riverain and mangrove forests 3.5
Tall tree forests
Sparse cover (50% cover)

Good quality tall tree (50% cover)
2.4 (2.7%)
2 (four fifths)

0.4

Scrub forests 1.1
Plantations 0.7

(Forest Sector Master Plan GOP 1992)

Land Degradation Process

Land Degradation Process Area Affected (000 hectares)
Water erosion 11,171.8
Wind erosion 4,760.5
Salinity and sodicity 5,327.7
Waterlogging (water table within 1.5 m) 1,554.3
Flooded 2,557
Pounding 936
Nutrient degradation 2,218

You may well have to, especially if any of these dams are on rivers flowing in from India. You don't want a dam with no water, do you?
The rivers that flow into Pakistan through India are protected under Indus Water Treaty. India can not stop the flow of water into Pakistan however it is allowed to make dams and produce electricity but can not divert the water for Indian consumption.

If India does some thing like diverting then it would mean Act of War.
 
we have to make these dams first.... why waste time on a dam which is controversial ????
It is not controversial. It was, unfortunately made controversial by our incompetent politicians. Reasons for opposing this dam were that it would give less water to a certain province such as Sindh and KPK and give it's water to Punjab. Now these people have no idea what they are talking about, in fact Kalabagh would increase water flowing to these provinces.
“Critics argue that if the dam is built, it would turn Sindh into a desert, but the experts are of the opinion that the province would get additional 4.75 million acre feet of water. Punjab would receive additional 2.04 MAF, Balochistan 1.56 MAF and K-P 2.01 MAF.”

Advantages of Kalabagh dam.

Terming the Kalabagh Dam a lifeline for the country’s future, the speakers at a seminar said that the vision of Quaid-e-Azam was to build Kalabagh Dam (Mianwali Hydro Project) and Nara Canal to meet energy requirements through cheep electricity and provide water to the desert of Thar.
“The country’s parliament, in its first budget session in presence of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, had approved the 500MW Mianwali Hydropower Project (Kalabagh Dam) in 1948 with a view to generate power through hydel production.
After the creation of Pakistan, the government under the leadership of Quaid-e-Azam, focused the growth of economy based on agro industry. At that time when the country’s power generation capacity was only 60MW the first budget session approved the construction of KBD,” observed Chairman Sindh Tas Water Council Pakistan Muhammad Suleman Khan at a seminar organized by the Institution of Engineers Pakistan.
Quoting a Wapda report, he stated that the annual electricity generated at Kalabagh Dam would be equivalent to 20 million barrels of oil otherwise needed to produce costly thermal power. This annual import of fuel would require augmentation of transportation infrastructure. It is the additional burden of billion of U.S dollars per annum to the economy.
“IRSA is responsible authority of four of the provinces and federal government. Its Chairman Engr. Raqib Khan (who belongs to Khyber Pk) has written an official letter to the Secretary, Ministry of Water & Power, Government of Pakistan for the water crises in the country. He wrote “IRSA strongly recommended the construction of new water storages of at least 22 MAF capacity on all the feasible sites on war footing basis as agriculture is the back bone of the country’s economy (it is point to note that the capacity of Kalabagh Dam is only 6.1Maf). The new storages will help to improve the diminishing per capita water availability, increase in GDP, control of floods etc., besides availability of cheap environment friendly Hydel Power to overcome the Power crises being faced by the country which is giving a serious setback to the economy.
Chairman Pakistan Engineering Council, Engr Abdul Qadir Shah, who is the brother of Syed Khurshid Shah, senior opposition leader of Pakistan People’s Party and the opposition leader in National Assembly, said at the event of World Water Day that “We have only the storage of 50 days whereas Egypt has 700 days storage in Aswan Dam, China is a big country of huge population has the storage of 500 days whether India has the storage of 120-220 days. We are facing horrible shortage of water. We have to build dams at any cost otherwise after 10-15 years, Pakistan will be the land of deserts.
“Critics argue that if the dam is built, it would turn Sindh into a desert, but the experts are of the opinion that the province would get additional 4.75 million acre feet of water. Punjab would receive additional 2.04 MAF, Balochistan 1.56 MAF and K-P 2.01 MAF.”

The IEP Lahore chapter president Capt (r) Khalid Sajjad, addressing the seminar, said that a general consensus could not be reached as the dam issue has been much politicised. The civil society would have to play a crucial role in creating a larger consensus as new large water reservoirs would benefit every Pakistani, he said.
Engineer Khalid Sajjad said that the Institution of Engineers Pakistan is running a campaign to pave way for the construction of Kalabagh Dam, which is a lifeline for the country’s future. The IEP is holding seminars and discussions with experts to clear any misunderstandings impeding its materialization, he added.
He said that poverty, hunger and darkness would be our fate if we don’t build dams to store water, which is depleting fast. Nation will not forgive people who are opposing Kalabagh Dam for their own interests, he said. Khalid Sajjad stated that only because of government’s silence over KBD, the country is suffering a loss of Rs132 billion annually. This amount could be saved by initiating construction of the dam. He said that another significant aspect connected with the construction is the surety of sufficient amount of electricity at a much cheaper price. “The capacity of the dam is equal to the capacity of 750 medium dams. The country’s dependence on power generated through thermal sources is costing us a lot and we face formidable challenges in both national and internationalmarkets.

There are many alternatives too.

there are 12 alternatives to kalabagh..so crying over kalabagh is nothing but an excuse not to build any dams...
its like child wanting to buy corolla 2013 model when corolla 2014, 2015 are there
few examples are
1. akhori
2.sanjwal
3.rotas
4. bhahsa
5.dok pathan
6. bahtar

other than no. 4 all can be built within 4-5 years due to their location and were proposed as alternatives to kalabagh

i am not even talking about the immense potential up stream bhasha
channelstorage_locationmap.gif

Kalabagh Dam a lifeline for country’s future
A single Kala Bagh Dam can solve tons of problems
It can irrigate Sindhs deserts and solve water problem in Sindh. Unfortunately politicians in this country have done everything in their domain to destroy everything.
 
It is not controversial. It was, unfortunately made controversial by our incompetent politicians. Reasons for opposing this dam were that it would give less water to a certain province such as Sindh and KPK and give it's water to Punjab. Now these people have no idea what they are talking about, in fact Kalabagh would increase water flowing to these provinces.
“Critics argue that if the dam is built, it would turn Sindh into a desert, but the experts are of the opinion that the province would get additional 4.75 million acre feet of water. Punjab would receive additional 2.04 MAF, Balochistan 1.56 MAF and K-P 2.01 MAF.”

We normally talk about this but in reality every year access water is sent from India though those rivers that once flowed into Pakistan were give to India. We could make dams on these and divert all the flood water into these. India would not win any compensation because this is the surplus water that was not required by India hence it is considered wasted water. There are Places in the East of Pakistan where they can make dams Thar and Sindh can be using this where as Indus flood water can also be sent to these dams if they have enough room. Other wise the Cholistan in Balochistan could be utilized for Indus Flood water Resource.

More over a few years back one of the Projects under US schemes highlighted Pakistan could still store rain water and that would be enough even if all its rivers ran dry. Though at this time it did not seem correct because Pakistan is facing rain shortfall specially in Karachi area.
 
You may well have to, especially if any of these dams are on rivers flowing in from India. You don't want a dam with no water, do you?

The amount of water reaching directly from India into the region where they want to build these dams, is very little. While Indus/Jhelum system originates in India, it gets filled up more in Pakistan's Gilgit Baltistan region. So yes, India can reduce the flow, but only to a certain bit.
Most of the water in Indus/Jhelum comes from the glaciers/snow (look up how many of the world's largest glaciers are in Pakistan) in the Himayalas/Karakorams within Pakistan's territory.....so yea, just like the roads and rail of CPEC, Indians can only cry tears.
 
The amount of water reaching directly from India into the region where they want to build these dams, is very little. While Indus/Jhelum system originates in India, it gets filled up more in Pakistan's Gilgit Baltistan region. So yes, India can reduce the flow, but only to a certain bit.
Most of the water in Indus/Jhelum comes from the glaciers/snow (look up how many of the world's largest glaciers are in Pakistan) in the Himayalas/Karakorams within Pakistan's territory.....so yea, just like the roads and rail of CPEC, Indians can only cry tears.

Good. Tell that to those in Pakistan who cry bucket loads that India is stealing their water...
 
We normally talk about this but in reality every year access water is sent from India though those rivers that once flowed into Pakistan were give to India. We could make dams on these and divert all the flood water into these. India would not win any compensation because this is the surplus water that was not required by India hence it is considered wasted water. There are Places in the East of Pakistan where they can make dams Thar and Sindh can be using this where as Indus flood water can also be sent to these dams if they have enough room. Other wise the Cholistan in Balochistan could be utilized for Indus Flood water Resource.

More over a few years back one of the Projects under US schemes highlighted Pakistan could still store rain water and that would be enough even if all its rivers ran dry. Though at this time it did not seem correct because Pakistan is facing rain shortfall specially in Karachi area.
Sir many opportunities, unfortunately we have been blessed by the best of politicians world has to offer. No future planning. So much can be done.
 
Sir many opportunities, unfortunately we have been blessed by the best of politicians world has to offer. No future planning. So much can be done.
There was a reason...They work on advice...They are not at all independent...We can not blame every thing on them...It takes time for the Nation to realize this...The great awareness is still to be seen....Some things have taken place...Continental shelf.... now we can easily reduce the flow into the sea... The area given can not be taken back now...development of dams would start very shortly... Rivers and canals will be cleaned over the years...Desalination technology was required which has arrived so that is an added bonus...
 
The rivers that flow into Pakistan through India are protected under Indus Water Treaty. India can not stop the flow of water into Pakistan however it is allowed to make dams and produce electricity but can not divert the water for Indian consumption.

If India does some thing like diverting then it would mean Act of War.

The poster wondered whether Indian objections have relevance, I pointed out that ignoring Indian objection on dams being built on rivers is not as easy. The IWT works only as long as India & Pakistan agree on its working. India can ask for its scrapping (theoretically) & ask for fresh negotiations on internationally acceptable principles. Since the IWT is heavily in favour of Pakistan with about 80-20 sharing, Pakistan will only lose in any such renegotiation.
 
Taken it where?
Beas, Sutlej were part of Pakistan and they fell into the Indus. These were given to India and India has diverted them to various parts of India. The latest is the Indra Gandhi canal.

Here are both Pakistani and Indian Maps of rivers and Canals.
257717,xcitefun-indus-river-map-1.jpg

indira-gandhi-canal-map.jpg
 
Beas, Sutlej were part of Pakistan and they fell into the Indus. These were given to India and India has diverted them to various parts of India. The latest is the Indra Gandhi canal.

Here are both Pakistani and Indian Maps of rivers and Canals.View attachment 234711
View attachment 234712

That I understand but Pakistan got rivers in return. What exactly is your point here?
 
The poster wondered whether Indian objections have relevance, I pointed out that ignoring Indian objection on dams being built on rivers is not as easy. The IWT works only as long as India & Pakistan agree on its working. India can ask for its scrapping (theoretically) & ask for fresh negotiations on internationally acceptable principles. Since the IWT is heavily in favour of Pakistan with about 80-20 sharing, Pakistan will only lose in any such renegotiation.
According to Simla accord Pakistan and India would solve these disputes with bilateral talks hence to get international jurisdiction is no more the first priority but a last resort.

Technically Beas could be give to India as it originated and flow mostly in India, but Sutlej originated and the complete flow was in Pakistan still it was held to be Indian. Now Indus River flows 98% in Pakistan only 2% and its origin is in India hence the share can be 80-20.

Indian objection can only be relevant on those rivers that flow into India. Like Afghanistan has objected to Pakistan on building dam on Kabul river.

That I understand but Pakistan got rivers in return. What exactly is your point here?
Pakistan lost its share of water on two rivers... it has been explained in detail in previous post.
 
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