China Automobile Industry, Technology (NEV, Driverless, etc): News & Images

[Kai Liu]

They do perform well in crash tests otherwise the car won’t be allowed on public roads. I had a Passat, never complained. Ok some minor stuffs but not serious.
It appears the car is not assembled well in China. Poor quality. VW should take note.

@Bismarck

Idiot, you know SAIC have the best plants and they also build GM cars and their own brand cars, which are all perform millions better in this test than this VW model??? And do you know JVs in China build 15 million cars, and Chinese companies produce another 12 million passenger cars, every year? they all perform better than this VW Passat??? It is VW's problem not its Chinese partner.

 

[Viet]

VW needs to take the full responsibility of the poor test performance. Its Chinese partner SAIC should not be blamed (see the SAIC Roewe RX5 Max example in #1). Made in China should not be blamed neither.

Toyota Avalon, made by Toyota's plant in Tianjin, China
The crash test rating is G (Good). A-pillar almost no deformed
View attachment 598981
Nissan Teana, made by Nissan's plant in Guangzhou. G-rating again.
View attachment 598982

Volvo XC60, made by Volvo/Geely's plant in Chengdu. G-rating again.
View attachment 598985

Links to the mentioned Toyota/Nissan/Volvo videos
Volvo XC60: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av81383385
Nissan Teana: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av81732919
Toyota Avalon: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av80781685

If you can read Chinese, you will find the name of Passat (帕萨特) is mentioned continually by the bullet comments. The young generation is really annoyed by VW. VW needs to feel shameful!!

Weird translation
I would expect 风 feng or (phong in Vietnamese) wind in the chinese text. Passat is a tropical east west wind.

 

[KungFuLee]

Idiot, you know SAIC have the best plants and they also build GM cars and their own brand cars, which are all perform millions better in this test than this VW model??? And you know JVs in China build 15 million cars besides another 10 million passenger cars from Chinese brands, they all perform better than this VW Passat??? It is VW's problem not its Chinese partner.

Again, just because SAIC make better cars that does not mean they couldn't make a bad car. If you look at BMW car score in NCAP, you can see they score different rating on different car from the same manufacturer. Also, if you say SAIC cannot make a bad car because all their car perform well in the test, then why German made Passat score very high in EURO NCAP?

So I am asking you this, what determine a car being make in excellent condition or a car being made in a bad condition. The company who build it? Or the company who sold the right to the company who build it?

The safety of the vehicle is mainly decided by two factors: design, and sourcing. Which side in SAIC-VW takes the control of this two most important functions? See the answer from SAIC-VW's webiste.

So build quality have nothing to do with safety?

If you really believe that, then I got nothing to say.

As for the rest of the post. LOL. You can try to spin whatever it want, at the end of the day it was a German car build in China, you can say this is VW fault, I mean it was, they should have at least the same standard of personnel working in China as in working in Germany.

You mean if they are strong than VW take the credit, if they are brittle, then SAIC is to be blamed??? WTF logic is this???
BTW, SAIC also make GM cars and their own brand cars which source the material locally and they perfrom millions better in this test.

I never said that. I said VW and SAIC are both to blame. On the other hand both you and GS Zhou think it was only VW to blame.

 

[Kai Liu]

Again, just because SAIC make better cars that does not mean they couldn't make a bad car. If you look at BMW car score in NCAP, you can see they score different rating on different car from the same manufacturer. Also, if you say SAIC cannot make a bad car because all their car perform well in the test, then why German made Passat score very high in EURO NCAP?

So I am asking you this, what determine a car being make in excellent condition or a car being made in a bad condition. The company who build it? Or the company who sold the right to the company who build it?






So build quality have nothing to do with safety?

If you really believe that, then I got nothing to say.

Well, CIASI's criteria is comparable to IIHS of USA, which is more strict than the Euro NCAP. They may perform well in EURO NCAP, because they studied well of the test criteria, and they are made to score high in EURO NCAP, but for CIASI, VW is not prepared...

 

[Viet]

Idiot, you know SAIC have the best plants and they also build GM cars and their own brand cars, which are all perform millions better in this test than this VW model??? And do you know JVs in China build 15 million cars, and Chinese companies produce another 12 million passenger cars, every year? they all perform better than this VW Passat??? It is VW's problem not its Chinese partner.

Why VW alone to blame?
What’s about chinese suppliers that deliver the airbags?

Maybe overworked overtired chinese workers that incorrectly build in the stuffs?

 

[Kai Liu]

Why VW alone to blame?
What’s about chinese suppliers that deliver the airbags?

What the airbags to do with the A-pillars??? Are you joking???
BTW, the material is not to blame because other car models which perform well also use the materials from the same suppliers. Mostly the design has flaws which is VW's responsibility.

 

[GS Zhou]

So build quality have nothing to do with safety?

If you really believe that, then I got nothing to say.

Manufacturing is equally important. I forgot to mention it. Will add it soon.

But this role is again taken by Volkswagen. NOT by SAIC. In the joint venture SAIC-VW, it is always the technical executive vice president to take the responsibility of manufacturing. And this position is ALWAYS taken by the German side.

See the appointment news of Fred Schulze to become the technical executive VP at SAIC-Volkswagen.
https://www.automobil-produktion.de/menschen/fred-schulze-wird-produktionschef-bei-saic-vw-203.html

 

[KungFuLee]

Well, CIASI's criteria is comparable to IIHS of USA, which is more strict than the Euro NCAP. They may perform well in EURO NCAP, because they studied well of the test criteria, but for CIASI, VW is not prepared...

actually, it was the other way around, Euro NCAP have more stringent safety rating than US IIHS, the test base is the same (Same Speed, Same Requirment) however, IIHS does not consider Pedestrian Safety.

Anyway, VW Passat 2020 also score all Gs in IINS rating anyway. Which mean your argument of which test is better is a moot point.

https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/how-to-use-crash-test-results-when-looking-to-buy-a-car/
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/volkswagen/passat-4-door-sedan/2020

 

[GS Zhou]

Why VW alone to blame?
What’s about chinese suppliers that deliver the airbags?

Maybe overworked overtired chinese workers that incorrectly build in the stuffs?

Are you kidding me? Don't you have some very basic understanding of vehicle structure?? The air bag is activated successfully. So it is NOT air bag's fault!
It is because of the A-pillar broken that letting the impact force flow into the cockpit, then the driving wheel doing excessive displacement, hence the airbag fails to hold the passenger's head!

 

[KungFuLee]

Manufacturing is equally important. I forgot to mention it. Will add it soon.

But this role is again taken by Volkswagen. NOT by SAIC. In the joint venture SAIC-VW, it is always the technical executive vice president to take the responsibility of manufacturing. And this position is ALWAYS taken by the German side.

See the appointment news of Fred Schulze to become the technical executive VP at SAIC-Volkswagen.
https://www.automobil-produktion.de/menschen/fred-schulze-wird-produktionschef-bei-saic-vw-203.html

So essentially you are saying the car made in China, by Chinese worker, in a Joint China-Germany Factory, under Germany supervision is entirely Germany fault how it turn out?

 

[Kai Liu]

actually, it was the other way around, Euro NCAP have more stringent safety rating than US IIHS, the test base is the same (Same Speed, Same Requirment) however, IIHS does not consider Pedestrian Safety.

Anyway, VW Passat 2020 also score all Gs in IINS rating anyway. Which mean your argument of which test is better is a moot point.

https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/how-to-use-crash-test-results-when-looking-to-buy-a-car/
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/volkswagen/passat-4-door-sedan/2020

I will tell you CIASI is very very strict, and it is a third party organization to provide stats for insurance companies, like the IIHS... But this is not the issue, the main issue is that Euro NCAP is too well studied by all manufacturers. Their cars are made to score high in that test from the design stage... But when the test method and criteria varied, they could perform very poorly.

https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1654782426133195100&wfr=spider&for=pc

 

[GS Zhou]

So essentially you are saying the car made in China, by Chinese worker, in a Joint China-Germany Factory, under Germany supervision is entirely Germany fault how it turn out?

SAIC, a pure China factory, by Chinese workers, under Chinese supervision across all functions, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
FAW-Toyota (the one making Toyota Avalon), by Chinese workers, under Japanese supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
Dongfeng-Nissan (the one making Nissan Teana), by Chinese workers, under Japanese supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
Volvo/Geely, by Chinese workers, under Chinese/Sweden supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.

SAIC-Volkswagen, by Chinese workers, under German supervision, is the WORST performer in the crash test.

Isn't the contrast strong enough??

 

[KungFuLee]

I will tell you CIASI is very very strict... But this is not the issue, the main issue is that Euro NCAP is too well studied by all manufacturers. Their cars are made to score high in that test from the design stage... But when the test method and criteria varied, they could perform very poorly.

Do you even know how these test was done?

It was done to simulate what normal roadside crash was like, and they are studied regardless of their origin.

First of all, to say you "Varied" the standard and it would perform poorly is, well, nothing but a stretch, unless you claim a car can be build to an overall standard can score good point at one part (eg. the front) and score bad if they put a 25 degree spin in the test?

This is not a school exam you are talking about. This is a well rounded standardization test.....

 

[Kai Liu]

Do you even know how these test was done?

It was done to simulate what normal roadside crash was like, and they are studied regardless of their origin.

First of all, to say you "Varied" the standard and it would perform poorly is, well, nothing but a stretch, unless you claim a car can be build to an overall standard can score good point at one part (eg. the front) and score bad if they put a 25 degree spin in the test?

This is not a school exam you are talking about. This is a well rounded standardization test.....

Read this article:
https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1654782426133195100&wfr=spider&for=pc

 

[KungFuLee]

SAIC, a pure China factory, by Chinese workers, under Chinese supervision across all functions, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
FAW-Toyota (the one making Toyota Avalon), by Chinese workers, under Japanese supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
Dongfeng-Nissan (the one making Nissan Teana), by Chinese workers, under Japanese supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.
Volvo/Geely, by Chinese workers, under Chinese/Sweden supervision, is doing a perfect job in crash test.

SAIC-Volkswagen, by Chinese workers, under German supervision, is the WORST performer in the crash test.

Isn't the contrast strong enough??

In law, that is called an "Anti-Logical" theory.

Again, just because someone did a good job itself, working with the Japanese, working with the Swede, does not mean it will do good working with someone else. As all these incidents are mutually exclusive.

And you also failed to answer my question.

Are you saying the car made in China, by Chinese worker, in a Joint China-Germany Factory, under Germany supervision is entirely Germany fault how it turn out? This is a simple yes or no question.

Read this article:
https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1654782426133195100&wfr=spider&for=pc

It said

中国保险汽车安全指数研究管理机构（C-IASI），简称中保研，作为目前为止国内最有信服力的汽车安全碰撞机构之一，其标准也是参考了美国的C-NCAP

According to this

2020 VW Passat score all G in US IIHS rating, (By the way C-NCAP is a Chinese Standard, not an American Standard, so the article was wrong there)

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/volkswagen/passat-4-door-sedan/2020

Also, according to this, IINS done the same test in the same condition as Euro NCAP

https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/how-to-use-crash-test-results-when-looking-to-buy-a-car/