Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[kungfugymnast]

You have the most sophisticated sensors (radar, IR, optical) on the planet, and missiles (PL-10) that can be cued using HMD. Somehow you're still going to risk a high value asset by trying to get into a WWII style gunfight. On top of that you're using 50 year old experience that no longer applies today.

Yankee has been wrong a lot before, so take it with a grain of salt. I rather leave out the gun and save some space/weight for future upgrades.

If you're up against F-22A and F-35A, you can't track them and launch missiles beyond 20Nm and no one knows how close range they'll get before you could acquire lock and launch missiles. Risk of radar guided missiles might not able to lock at all is there and IR guided missiles effective range too might reduced. J-20 will get its gun when the WS-10C is proven capable enough to give the J-20B adequate thrust or wait for WS-15 in J-20C only to get gun.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... please both calm down and stop with this personnel issues!

let's concentrate on this ... and where the next unit will be formed!

 

[LKJ86]

 

[siegecrossbow]

View attachment 702688

Do we know where the new brigade will be stationed? Rumors in October indicated that they'll be in the North Eastern provinces.

 

[Figaro]

Why they leave out gun for F-35B?
Vietnam war is 50 years old battle. Tell me ,how many aircraft shot down by aircraft gun in gulf war 1 or last 40 years old air battle?

This is because the air wars fought after the Vietnam War were extremely one sided ... do you really think any Iraqi aircraft during the First Gulf War had any chance against US aircraft? This is why almost all engagements were fought in WVR ... where the Americans dominated and the Iraqis were extremely encumbered. If the J-20 (or really any 5th generation aircraft) was only going up against these types, a gun may not be necessary but against other 5th generation fighters, it is still necessary as a fail safe. You don't buy car insurance because you know you definitely will get into an accident; you buy it just in case you do. Besides, if there is seriously no need for a gun and everything will 100% be fought in WVR, why then is the J-20 getting 3D TVC?

 

[samsara]

View attachment 702688

Congratulation to AVIC for exceeding the annual production, tasking ahead of schedule and achieving the high level goal of balanced production. Congratulation to aviation industry.

The second brigade has arrived! A higher production rate (of the new generation) is now can be expected, a high level goal of balanced production (referring to the capacity conversion between the new generation and the old generation before the mass production of the new generation), the completed preparation for the expansion of the new generation of aircraft...now the J-20 can be produced more...

 

[kungfugymnast]

This is because the air wars fought after the Vietnam War were extremely one sided ... do you really think any Iraqi aircraft during the First Gulf War had any chance against US aircraft? This is why almost all engagements were fought in WVR ... where the Americans dominated and the Iraqis were extremely encumbered. If the J-20 (or really any 5th generation aircraft) was only going up against these types, a gun may not be necessary but against other 5th generation fighters, it is still necessary as a fail safe. You don't buy car insurance because you know you definitely will get into an accident; you buy it just in case you do. Besides, if there is seriously no need for a gun and everything will 100% be fought in WVR, why then is the J-20 getting 3D TVC?

Many think that when a BVR missile has 80 miles effective range, they can launch the missile at 80 miles with guaranteed hit. The 80 miles on specification recorded from launcher at above 36000ft over 500kts hitting target that is static. In Iraq Operation Desert Storm, all the air to air engagement took place below 20 miles despite AIM-7M & AIM-120A/B effective range at 43-45 miles. Despite up against inferior fighters with poor avionics the pk was 60-80%.

J-20B with 4x PL-15 & 2x PL-10E up against wings of F/A-18E/F & F-35C, the PL-15 launched at F/A-18E/F probably below 30miles as the Super Hornets with advanced RWR would perform evasive maneuver, turning on ECM & spoofing chaffs with pk around 50-70%. Up against F-35C would start engagement below 15 miles or even closer to dogfight range. Most likely J-20B will be fitted with gun if the engines thrust are proven adequate. Do you think they'll add TVC to J-20B or later for J-20C?

 

[Figaro]

Do you think they'll add TVC to J-20B or later for J-20C?

A J-20 equipped with TVC WS-10 was flew this past summer ... so if you call that variant the J-20B and then the WS-15 one the J-20C, then yes.

 

[samsara]

Congratulation to AVIC for exceeding the annual production, tasking ahead of schedule and achieving the high level goal of balanced production. Congratulation to aviation industry.

The second brigade has arrived! A higher production rate (of the new generation) is now can be expected, a high level goal of balanced production (referring to the capacity conversion between the new generation and the old generation before the mass production of the new generation), the completed preparation for the expansion of the new generation of aircraft...now the J-20 can be produced more...

To put better clarification on above passage:

From 苗子猫 @mys_721tx:

“Chengdu, Harbin, and Changhe all exceeded the annual production targets and achieved the balance between old and new models. The other commentator pointed out that balancing means the conversion of old production lines before serial production.

Based on the comment, I guess some J-10 production lines are getting axed. Not sure which helicopters are getting it though.”


As commented at Deino's below post

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345600291140464640

 

[kungfugymnast]

A J-20 equipped with TVC WS-10 was flew this past summer ... so if you call that variant the J-20B and then the WS-15 one the J-20C, then yes.

J-20B having internal gun fitted with WS-10C that has TVC will be almost perfect. What gun fitted will be fitted in later J-20? Are J-11B, J-15B, J-16 and J-10C using Russian GSH-30-1 & GSH-23-6 or China made guns?

 

[LKJ86]

Via https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/h3kBIuNP_oadCUpPBMWsJg

 

[samsara]

From Rick Joe @RickJoe_PLA on 2021.01.01:

The release on this date is just another example to me that there are probably troves of photos taken in the past waiting for enough time to pass to release.

That's why I don't think pictures are useful to measure production or service progress, cause it's deliberately withheld.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344905159185371137

 

[samsara]

To put better clarification on above passage:

From 苗子猫 @mys_721tx:

“Chengdu, Harbin, and Changhe all exceeded the annual production targets and achieved the balance between old and new models. The other commentator pointed out that balancing means the conversion of old production lines before serial production.

Based on the comment, I guess some J-10 production lines are getting axed. Not sure which helicopters are getting it though.”


As commented at Deino's below post

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345600291140464640

Following Israeli blogger at Twitter caught some interest with his slight mentioning as below. This guy is very actively tracking and mapping China's AB, radar installations and units through various remote observation. A little wondering that some Israeli community has keen interests and follow very closely the Chinese military development

~~~~~~~~~~

From נודלס בפיתה @nudelsinpita on 2021.01.03:
(the strange characters are Hebrew means "The community of Chinese observers in Israel")

Latest SAT images I got from last month (Can't share - sorry!) show no indications for J-20As deployment at Anshan (93056/93158).

I am also aware of these rumors but I think we should keep an eye on different candidates.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1345686302725959680

 

[LKJ86]

Via 中国航空报

 

[samsara]

View attachment 703447
Via 中国航空报

In order for the naturally cool, seemingly simple, plain picture to have its right context... thanks to Henri!

First Prize in a photo competition, entitled 《The Happy Flight Test Staff》.

Photo via 中国航空报

https://twitter.com/x/status/1346360008804483072

Some more info:

* Henri Kenhmann: The volume available in the radome appears to be substantial.

* 逆襲 @horobeyo: 1800+ T/R单元，瓦片式封装（2009年状态）
1800+ T/R elements, tile-pattern encapsulation (2009 status)