Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[gambit]

Gambit, I don't know if you're racist or not, but you sure like to target Chinese products and love to talk down on them.​

Chinese products ? Broad statement that covers a lot. But if you want to go there, I will accommodate you. You should to over the threads where your fellow Chinese posted reams of stories on Chinese cell phones, bridges, high speed trains, etc, and see how many derogatory posts I made there. Let me know if you find a few.

 

[Pepsi Cola]

Chinese products ? Broad statement that covers a lot. But if you want to go there, I will accommodate you. You should to over the threads where your fellow Chinese posted reams of stories on Chinese cell phones, bridges, high speed trains, etc, and see how many derogatory posts I made there. Let me know if you find a few.

If you're as smart, or experienced as you claim yourself to be. Don't act dumb. You know exactly what I meant.

 

[Deino]

@Okarus

Honestly I can understand but I think by now each of You made perfectly clear that You have different opinion.
However from You so far other than accusations I did not get any argument ... so far You even ignored my points of concern ... why I don't know but either You argue from Your next post on or simply leave that discussion where it is: At a point were both of You can only agree to not agree.

Period.

Everything else and especially insinuations, accusations without reasons for the contrary other than "I'm sure, Chinese technicians have found a solution" will lead to nothing.

As such: STOP !!!

Deino

 

[Pepsi Cola]

@Deino Well, you ought to read my comment again then.

Maybe the Chinese engineers really did make the J20 stealthy enough to be "statistically insignificant", maybe not. The fact is no one knows. Another fact is that China chose J20's design over other proposed designs, and there was a reason for it.

 

[Deino]

@Deino Well, you ought to read my comment again then.

I read but that it is not an explanation for the points I mentioned, why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35 like You claim - while in return insisting on gambit's sentence "canards are unstealthy" !

As such I simply beg You ... leave it, this discussion will led to nothing, all arguments are said and now let's wait for more facts and nice images.

The only issue however I want to add: why do take some You instantly each and everything that is not a hyper positive mentioning or applause a China-bashing in general ?? I don't understand this attitude ...

Most Chinese I met so far a very honest people who indeed are able to differ between black and white - aka between bashing of their products like done from most Russians and tragically most Western peoples and a nationalistic hyping of all Chinese products as if the are already not only equal but superior to everything !!!

Deino

 

[Pepsi Cola]

I read but that it is not an explanation for the points I mentioned, why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35 like You claim - while in return insisting on gambit's sentence "canards are unstealthy" !

As such I simply beg You ... leave it, this discussion will led to nothing, all arguments are said and now let's wait for more facts and nice images.

The only issue however I want to add: why do take some You instantly each and everything that is not a hyper positive mentioning or applause a China-bashing in general ?? I don't understand this attitude ...

Most Chinese I met so far a very honest people who indeed are able to differ between black and white - aka between bashing of their products like done from most Russians and tragically most Western peoples and a nationalistic hyping of all Chinese products as if the are already not only equal but superior to everything !!!

Deino

I didn't claim anything about the J20's stealthiness Deino. This is my first comment on this argument, so I hope you're not confusing with me with other previous commenters. I'm also not accusing him of "China bashing", but I've seen him around here a lot, and never have seen him given any positive comment regarding Chinese military equipments. I'm simply pointing that fact out, take what you will from it.

 

[Deino]

I didn't claim anything about the J20's stealthiness Deino. This is my first comment on this argument, so I hope you're not confusing with me with other previous commenters. I'm also not accusing him of "China bashing", but I've seen him around here a lot, and never have seen him given any positive comment regarding Chinese military equipments. I'm simply pointing that fact out, take what you will from it.

Dear @Okarus ... I owe You an apology and I indeed deeply regret my last post, I ws indeed confusing You with someone else ...

Sorry for that.

Deino

 

[j20blackdragon]

 

[Asoka]

Well, let me add two more cents on Gambit's long running ranting about the canards being unstealthy and CANNOT be make into stealthy because of his physics laws. If we compare J-20 version 2001 and J-20 version 2017, there is hardly anything noticeably different about the canard's shape, size, and alignment, other than the clipped corner. This suggest the RCS issue has been solved in version 2001, or it's no big problem at all toward a LO solution.

With all the resources and talents China has put into this project, it is inconceivable that canards still contribute a huge RCS. To keep ranting like Gambit is simply IRRATIONAL, if not racist or jealous of China's aviation achievement.

Let's call Gambit's behavior for what it is -- IRRATIONAL OBSESSION. It is not a rational discussion.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well, let me add two more cents on Gambit's long running ranting about the canards being unstealthy and CANNOT be make into stealthy because of his physics laws. If we compare J-20 version 2001 and J-20 version 2017, there is hardly anything noticeably different about the canard's shape, size, and alignment, other than the clipped corner. This suggest the RCS issue has been solved in version 2001, or it's no big problem at all toward a LO solution.

With all the resources and talents China has put into this project, it is inconceivable that canards still contribute a huge RCS. To keep ranting like Gambit is simply IRRATIONAL, if not racist or jealous of China's aviation achievement.

Let's call Gambit's behavior for what it is -- IRRATIONAL OBSESSION. It is not a rational discussion.

In front its ok but on turning or in sideways it has a particularly increaseed RCS because Canards will give to extra reflecting surface to the radar

 

[Deino]

Well, let me add two more cents on Gambit's long running ranting about the canards being unstealthy and CANNOT be make into stealthy because of his physics laws. If we compare J-20 version 2001 and J-20 version 2017, there is hardly anything noticeably different about the canard's shape, size, and alignment, other than the clipped corner. This suggest the RCS issue has been solved in version 2001, or it's no big problem at all toward a LO solution.

With all the resources and talents China has put into this project, it is inconceivable that canards still contribute a huge RCS. To keep ranting like Gambit is simply IRRATIONAL, if not racist or jealous of China's aviation achievement.

Let's call Gambit's behavior for what it is -- IRRATIONAL OBSESSION. It is not a rational discussion.

@Asok

A few hours ago a made a grave mistake but now it's up again and this time on You: Gambit is not ranting and he has no obsession.
You are in return avoiding even after several requests and You constant false quoting that they are "un-stealthy" which is different to "not as stealthy as an aircraft without canards" is an obsession by YOU.

As such I simply beg You ... in order to keep that threadclean and civilised: None of Your replies is an explanation for the points I mentioned, why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35 like You claim - while in return insisting on gambit's sentence "canards are unstealthy" !

Therefore now a direct order from me as a moderator: Either You argue from now on and leave all insults or You leave it. This discussion will led to nothing, all arguments are said and now let's wait for more facts and nice images.


The only issue however I want to add: why do take some of You instantly each and everything that is not a hyper positive mentioning or applause a China-bashing in general ?? I don't understand this attitude ...

Most Chinese I met so far a very honest people who indeed are able to differ between black and white - aka between bashing of their products like done from most Russians and tragically most Western peoples and a nationalistic hyping of all Chinese products as if the are already not only equal but superior to everything !!!

Deino

 

[Asoka]

In front its ok but on turning or in sideways it has a particularly increaseed RCS because Canards will give to extra reflecting surface to the radar

When the canards are activated, its activated at angle, like the surfaces of the FA-117, so most of the radar signal do not reflect back to the enemy radar. Even if some signal do most manage to reflect back to the enemy, the signal will be flickering, since the plane is turning. Don't forget the canards also has a radar absorbing coating like rest of the body.

 

[Ultima Thule]

When the canards are activated, its activated at angle, like the surfaces of the FA-117, so the radar signal do not reflect back to the enemy radar.

bro do some research than talk and respect @gambit he is professional he knows better than you about RCS of fighter jets

 

[Asoka]

@Asok

A few hours ago a made a grave mistake but now it's up again and this time on You: Gambit is not ranting and he has no obsession.
You are in return avoiding even after several requests and You constant false quoting that they are "un-stealthy" which is different to "not as stealthy as an aircraft without canards" is an obsession by YOU.

As such I simply beg You ... in order to keep that threadclean and civilised: None of Your replies is an explanation for the points I mentioned, why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35 like You claim - while in return insisting on gambit's sentence "canards are unstealthy" !

Therefore now a direct order from me as a moderator: Either You argue from now on and leave all insults or You leave it. This discussion will led to nothing, all arguments are said and now let's wait for more facts and nice images.


The only issue however I want to add: why do take some of You instantly each and everything that is not a hyper positive mentioning or applause a China-bashing in general ?? I don't understand this attitude ...

Most Chinese I met so far a very honest people who indeed are able to differ between black and white - aka between bashing of their products like done from most Russians and tragically most Western peoples and a nationalistic hyping of all Chinese products as if the are already not only equal but superior to everything !!!

Deino

"why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35 like You claim - while in return insisting on gambit's sentence "canards are unstealthy" !

Well, I conceive that having a canard do add 'some' more RCS. But when the canards are not activated, it's level, and only its edges are reflecting signal, and since the edges are slanted away from the enemy radar, it will not go back to the enemy.

When the canards are activated, its activated at angle, like the surfaces of the FA-117, so most of the radar signal do not reflect back to the enemy radar. Even if some signal do most manage to reflect back to the enemy, the signal will be flickering, since the plane is turning. Don't forget the canards also has a radar absorbing coating like rest of the body.

As for the signal might be bouncing between the canards and main wings and the rest of the body, I cannot comment on it, since I have not see the simulation.

This is where my confidence that having the canards do not affect the RCS of the J-20 much came from.

"why it should be AS stealthy as the F-22 or F-35"

What it takes to make a stealth fighter is deep understanding of the radar principles, simulation software and supercomputer to model the reflection, RCS chamber to test and refine the design, and advanced coating to absorb the signals. China has demonstrated that it has all those elements. Time will tell whether J-20 is on par with F-22 and F-35.

 

[Blue Marlin]

a lot of folks here are saying canards increase the rcs and therefore it contributes to the fighter not being stealthy. it is true canards to increase the rcs, thats and fact, and they increase drag too.

people must understand one thing, purpose. what is it designed to do? now my opinion is that its a high endurance front line fighter/interceptor. this makes it perfect for use on the scs.

looking at the image below it is evident that its size would suggest its role in a high endurance interceptor/fighter

now since this is their first fifth gen fighter. this can also be seen as it being a test platform. developing something thats not critical as there are other platform that can do the job like the h-6. where as something like a full on air superiority fighter like the f22 and pak-fa is something that would be in the early stages of development. which i would assume would be fully Chinese including the engines. i suspect they have the ability to manufacture most of the engine components such as the main fan and the lp and hp compressors but the hp and lp turbines would be the problem and running them at cooler temperatures would increase their life but reduce their power. this being a fighter jet they need to be powerful so must run at much hotter temperatures but this greatly reduces the life of the turbines/engine.