Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[fatman17]

Thanx. But this gives way to another query. If J10B is comparable to Gripen, that means it cannot be an answer to Rafale. Infact, I think it will lag behind even F16 Blk 52, so that means it won't be the new frontline fighter for PAF. So what is the significance of J10B then?? At present, it is just an undercooked plane which may be too late for its time, sort of like Tejas. Shouldn't pakistan have gone for J11 instead? It would have also provided PAF experience with the flanker which could be instrumental considering the fact that IAF will have 15 squadrons of it in 4 years.

all F-16s from block 40 onwards have similar capabilities. the J10A is comparable to the F-16A/B. the J10B is an upgrade on the A model, so it is comparable to latter model F-16's. now LM is offering to upgrade/fit AESA on all current models of F-16's in service. so this reduces the capability gap of the F-16's with the more modern Rafale, EFT etc. IAF will continue to enjoy larger numbers than the PAF (2:1), and therefore the PAF will need to cope with this reality with robust and hard training.

further i would like the PAF to consider the J-16 as a future medium to long term induction possibility.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

all F-16s from block 40 onwards have similar capabilities. the J10A is comparable to the F-16A/B. the J10B is an upgrade on the A model, so it is comparable to latter model F-16's. now LM is offering to upgrade/fit AESA on all current models of F-16's in service. so this reduces the capability gap of the F-16's with the more modern Rafale, EFT etc. IAF will continue to enjoy larger numbers than the PAF (2:1), and therefore the PAF will need to cope with this reality with robust and hard training.

further i would like the PAF to consider the J-16 as a future medium to long term induction possibility.

So you are agreeing that F16 will continue to be the frontline fighter for Pakistan. As far as I know Pakistan has only one squadron of Blk 52 in service. They may have more Blk 40 but I am not sure about the number. Kindly confirm.

Also I don't agree with you saying that IAF: PAF aircraft ratio will be 2:1. Sure on the basis of pure numbers it might be 2:1 but where is the quality. For example, we are inducting 270 Su30 MKI. To counter it, pakistan should have atleast 135 Blk 40+, if 2:1 ratio is to stand. JF 17 is good enough only our Mirage & Mig 27 as of now.

As far as I know J16 is still not confirmed officially. I might be wrong.

 

[Mani2020]

So you are agreeing that F16 will continue to be the frontline fighter for Pakistan. As far as I know Pakistan has only one squadron of Blk 52 in service. They may have more Blk 40 but I am not sure about the number. Kindly confirm.
.

Currently all the f-16 A/B block 15 of PAF are getting MLU in Turkey which will bring them equal to the level of block 52 aircrafts , So PAF in total will have ~ 70 F-16s including 18 block 52+ and rest block 52

For further details and info about MLU and structural upgrade program for PAF f-16s go through F-16 thread

 

[VelocuR]

Currently all the f-16 A/B block 15 of PAF are getting MLU in Turkey which will bring them equal to the level of block 52 aircrafts , So PAF in total will have ~ 70 F-16s including 18 block 52+ and rest block 52

For further details and info about MLU and structural upgrade program for PAF f-16s go through F-16 thread

Incorrect, it will bring equal to Block 40.

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) will do the upgrade MLU which primarily involves replacement of avionics and structural modifications bringing them close to block 40 standards.

Welcome back dude!

Source

 

[Mani2020]

Incorrect, it will bring equal to Block 40.

Welcome back dude!

Source

No raptor it will bring PAF f-16s to block 52 level, remember PAF is not getting a typical mlu3 or mlu4 rather a customized one , also they are getting the CCIP upgrade which will bring them up to Block-50/52 standard.

Check this out
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/60896-paf-f-16-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

 

[VelocuR]

Thanks, we can discuss in different threads, not here (F-16 Blk 52 topics).

 

[fatman17]

So you are agreeing that F16 will continue to be the frontline fighter for Pakistan. As far as I know Pakistan has only one squadron of Blk 52 in service. They may have more Blk 40 but I am not sure about the number. Kindly confirm.

Also I don't agree with you saying that IAF: PAF aircraft ratio will be 2:1. Sure on the basis of pure numbers it might be 2:1 but where is the quality. For example, we are inducting 270 Su30 MKI. To counter it, pakistan should have atleast 135 Blk 40+, if 2:1 ratio is to stand. JF 17 is good enough only our Mirage & Mig 27 as of now.

As far as I know J16 is still not confirmed officially. I might be wrong.

its a matter of how we induct the new platforms. geo-politics, resource availability etc.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

its a matter of how we induct the new platforms. geo-politics, resource availability etc.

Can you elaborate?

 

[umair86]

Incorrect, it will bring equal to Block 40.

Welcome back dude!

Source

It is for Euro MLU not PAF one which customized and have same avionics as Block 52+

 

[ziaulislam]

in lay man terms
MLU= block52-range and payload
/
what final number do PAF wants regarding J-10

 

[fatman17]

in lay man terms
MLU= block52-range and payload
/
what final number do PAF wants regarding J-10

J-10B. 40 minimum.

 

[sancho]

So yes, the J-10B offers only a slight improvement over the A2A load carrying capacity of the JF-17 due to lack of space.. and not due to lack of lifting ability so to say.

Exactly and that is caused by the similar number of wingstations as well as the same size limitations on the centerline, that causes the same issues for both fighters.

So you are agreeing that F16 will continue to be the frontline fighter for Pakistan.

I don't think so, because of the capabilities JF 17 and J10 will add to PAF in conbination with customised avionics, weapons, as well as tankers and AWACS.
In A2A even with a PESA radar only, a J10B with it's design, improved RCS, the number of AAMs that it can carry, the mid air refuelling capability clearly will top the F16s. In A2G the addition of Raad, LS-6, MAR-1, escort jammers and again mid air refuelling capability will give JF17 and J10B (I expect the same weapons to be integrated in both fighters, at least for PAF) adds better deep strike and SEAD capabilities than the F16 too. The upgrade of the F16s is important, the addition of the B52s a stopgap now, but the future frontline fighters will be J10B and JF 17 B2 onwards.

 

[fatman17]

the addition of the B52s a stopgap now

no its not. the F16 program could have seen better days but why cry over spilt milk. PAF still wants a minimum of 100 F16s in its inventory. add the 150 JFTs and say 40 J10Bs (for now) is not fodder for any adversary. PAF will and shall remain a med-size AF.

 

[ziaulislam]

I guess the additional option of 100 JF-17s were to cover up for any losses of F-16s or J-10s
frankly i am disappointed with NATO routes opening, atleast if they had to open it anyway, they should have done it for some kind of logical military assistance for air force or militery aviation, like cobras or F-16s via EDA.
i guess we should now atleast expect 14 embargos one to come anytime sooner or later??

 

[sancho]

the addition of the B52s a stopgap now

no its not. the F16 program could have seen better days but why cry over spilt milk. PAF still wants a minimum of 100 F16s in its inventory. add the 150 JFTs and say 40 J10Bs (for now) is not fodder for any adversary. PAF will and shall remain a med-size AF.

That's the point! If these additional F16s (afaik initially 2 x squads were planned) came in time they would have been good for a longer period of time, but now with the delays, the operational limitations wrt to tankers, AWACS linking, or no possibility of customisations, makes Chinese fighters better for PAFs future and they can offer the same or even better performance within the next 2 to 3 years. So why would PAF waste more money on additional F16 B52s, instead on J10Bs, which should be a more capable too?
Even the addition of second hand Block 50s hardly makes sense anymore, when JF 17 B2 is about to arrive and when we add the possibility of J21 towards the end of this decade, PAF really has better options.

So these B52s "now" bridges the time till the olders are upgraded and the JF 17s are inducted, for the next few years and with the addition of J10B and JF17 B3 they will be outdated until they might get AESA upgrades.