CH4, can it be the awacs escort ?

[Guest]

i konw it may sounds crazy, but why not give it a try.
The reason for using UAVs are obvious:
a. cheap, 1 CH4 + 3 SD10 would cost only 8+3 m (44m for a 4 planes squardon)
b. no casualties durning combat
c. low maintaining and training cost
d. easy to be mass produced
5. stealth (it can keep flying below 100m until it need to engage the enemy)

The latest CH-4B has a payload of 345KG and 14 hours endurance, if all the reconnaissance equipments are removed and make some changes, it's payload might reach 480kg to mount 3 SD-10 missiles (160kg each)

lets assume it flys at 5000m, 200km/h and at this aultitude and speed SD-10's headon hit rate at 60km is 20-30% (auctual figure is impossible to get, im using figure from Gulf war). Targets will be acquired and trasnfered to CH-4 by awacs datalink. Since CH-4 has almost 0 maneuverability, i dont expect it can doge any incoming missiles, so all it need to do is shot all missiles at the best timing. 3 salvo from 4 CH-4 (12 missiles in total ) should be able to shot down 1-3 emeny aircrafts

 

[CriticalThought]

Makes sense to use very low cost, cheap drones that attract incoming missiles away from high value targets.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not specifically the CH-4 as it is too slow (piston-engine), but you could develop something like the Valkyrie attritable UAV for that role. Basically, take the Ra'ad's engine, flight control system, fuel tank, etc and combine that to a new blended-wing low-RCS airframe. The main issue for the escort role would be semi-/autonomous flight and mission management. Not sure if a remote operator on a possibly shaky SATCOM or radio data-link would be ideal in high-speed air-to-air engagements (unless of course it's restricted to only BVR).

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sed-this-image-of-its-low-cost-stealthy-drone

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/kratos-promote-valkyrie-mako-drones-paris

 

[Guest]

oops, the unit cost above is RMB
so it would be 1.3m USD per drone+ammo

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sed-this-image-of-its-low-cost-stealthy-drone
http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/kratos-promote-valkyrie-mako-drones-paris

of course it can be upgraded to high end combo like "Sharp Sword" UCAV+ PL15 (400km), but the problem is COST.
if 1.3m can do the job, why paying extra $$
one more thing, being cheap has one more advantage.
Cheap UAV has the potential to be used as swarm.

imagine you have 100m to spend,which one would you prefer
3 JF-17 or 80+ drone swarm

 

[CriticalThought]

Not specifically the CH-4 as it is too slow (piston-engine), but you could develop something like the Valkyrie attritable UAV for that role. Basically, take the Ra'ad's engine, flight control system, fuel tank, etc and combine that to a new blended-wing low-RCS airframe. The main issue for the escort role would be semi-/autonomous flight and mission management. Not sure if a remote operator on a possibly shaky SATCOM or radio data-link would be ideal in high-speed air-to-air engagements (unless of course it's restricted to only BVR).

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sed-this-image-of-its-low-cost-stealthy-drone

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/kratos-promote-valkyrie-mako-drones-paris

AWACS will stay far away from real action. The concern is the Russian AWACS killer K100 that can target from 400 km. The cheap drones should have a large RCS to attract these types of BVR missiles. They can be controlled from the AWACS itself. With enough power, these drones can act as DRFM decoys.

 

[Falcon26]

Not specifically the CH-4 as it is too slow (piston-engine), but you could develop something like the Valkyrie attritable UAV for that role. Basically, take the Ra'ad's engine, flight control system, fuel tank, etc and combine that to a new blended-wing low-RCS airframe. The main issue for the escort role would be semi-/autonomous flight and mission management. Not sure if a remote operator on a possibly shaky SATCOM or radio data-link would be ideal in high-speed air-to-air engagements (unless of course it's restricted to only BVR).

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sed-this-image-of-its-low-cost-stealthy-drone

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/kratos-promote-valkyrie-mako-drones-paris

What do you attribute Pakistan's inability to invest in SATCOM despite the steady churning of cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, MIRV combined with the talk of moving towards net-centric warfare capabilities. Is it financial, technical limitations or is it a matter of vision? If Pakistan can't have a consistent ISR coverage over India and over its own territories during wartime, what use are AWACS, different types of missiles, submarines and NASR?

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

Not specifically the CH-4 as it is too slow (piston-engine), but you could develop something like the Valkyrie attritable UAV for that role. Basically, take the Ra'ad's engine, flight control system, fuel tank, etc and combine that to a new blended-wing low-RCS airframe. The main issue for the escort role would be semi-/autonomous flight and mission management. Not sure if a remote operator on a possibly shaky SATCOM or radio data-link would be ideal in high-speed air-to-air engagements (unless of course it's restricted to only BVR).

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...sed-this-image-of-its-low-cost-stealthy-drone

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2017/kratos-promote-valkyrie-mako-drones-paris

Why not make modified Ra'ad as escort plus Kamakazi type suicide drone air to air and air to ground.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What do you attribute Pakistan's inability to invest in SATCOM despite the steady churning of cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, MIRV combined with the talk of moving towards net-centric warfare capabilities. Is it financial, technical limitations or is it a matter of vision? If Pakistan can't have a consistent ISR coverage over India and over its own territories during wartime, what use are AWACS, different types of missiles, submarines and NASR?

Regarding a communications satellite, it could be an issue of funding and priorities. If Pakistan really wanted a new communications satellite, it'd cost around $560 m to get a dual civilian and military one from Europe (see Brazil's purchase from Thales). Probably less costly from China. That said, the Navy was in talks with Turkey in 2016 for SATCOM terminals for surface warships and possibly aircraft.

As more long-range assets (e.g. MALE UAV) become available, I think we will see some serious attention towards securing a communications satellite. They can leverage funds from each of the services (Army, Navy and Air Force), SPD, PTCL, Gov't of Pakistan and heck, even CPEC proper to come up with money for it (as it's relevant to each one of them). Consider how the satellite system Brazil got from Thales will also provide broadband internet to rural communities and remote areas in the Amazon!

Why not make modified Ra'ad as escort plus Kamakazi type suicide drone air to air and air to ground.

I suspect there may be maneuverability limitations for air-to-air. However, a lot from the Ra'ad could potentially be re-purposed for an attritable UAV, namely turbojet/turbofan engine and flight control system. Moreover, it might not be a bad idea to invest in developing a new blended wing airframe, lessons from there can be extended to the next-gen fighter under Project Azm. What better way to learn modern aircraft design? If not you can expand upon it to make a strike-oriented bomber UCAV.