Can PAF knock Out Green Pines in War

[Hellfire]

Thanks. Hate to display my ignorance, but don't they use decoys to draw away the HARMs? I mean if there is more than one source, the HARM will have to chose, and will go for the more powerful emitter?

that option has been explored, but the problem is that the technology changes are on a daily basis nowadays and for the active seeker used in ARM missiles nowadays, allows the missile to 'remember' the RADAR it was tracking and its signature profile, so that its becoming hard to further explore the options of using a decoy at the same time due to "smarter" missiles coming in ....

 

[Hellfire]

Asim is a senior member and I am sure he knows a thing or two of what he is talking about, if for nothing else then just experience. The arrogance in your post is not a good thing. You can very well debate without using arrogance especially against a senior member.

I am sure Asim knows very well what Green Pine is and why this thread exists. Maybe its time for you to know that Green Pine is for "tactical ballistic missiles" that operate "high above" the eath and a "cruise missile" is a "terrain hugging missile".


Maybe you should look at the brochure of Green Pine radar and look at the picture showing the functioning of the radar and tell us just how it is going to track a terrain-hugging cruise missile.


As opposed to other cruise missiles, babur is a terrain-hugging cruise missile. The only option could be to detect it when its first launched vertically us, but that could be done out of range of Green Pines since babur has a range of 700km.



It is indeed. Green pine is there to detect BMs and guide interceptor missiles to destroy them. It is not protecting itself against cruise missiles.

For protection there are other ground base radar systems - a network of them in any decent country as well as AWACS/AEW&C that can detect a target such as cruise missile an alert an incoming missile. Intercepting a ballistic missile is easier but even that hasn't gone anywhere as yet in terms of reliability/accuracy of intercepting. Cruise missiles are even more difficult.

Hitting a Green Pine will be indeed difficult. Its small and can be moved at short notices but its not impossible.



The only time we will really need to take out the Green Pines will be when we plan to launch Ballistic missiles by which time war must have reached unimaginable proportions anyway.

lets hope such a time never comes and both the countries focus on getting themselves out of what can be labeled as one of the poorest region on earth.

No Green Pine or its Indian versions are employed in singularity, there always exists a tiered structural defence system comprising of low level radars like INDRA-II which are always networked and work in tandem with Aerostat Radars and other RADAR systems.

As such detection of any low flying AC/Cruise Missile/Ballistic Missile is easily achieved due to high degree of networking presently in Indian Defence Forces.

With Indian Satellite systems being actively deployed, these too are being configured EXCLUSIVELY for China and Pakistan to detect missile launches.

The IAF is being radicalised into an exclusive Aerospace and Strategic Command and as such the infrastructure for the same is extensively been deployed and all the systems being successfully integrated.

As such the detection capability today is quite effective IRRESPECTIVE of the nature of threat posed.

 

[Hellfire]

This is the funniest thing i've heard in a while.First of all hypersonic missiles are not exactly terrain hugging as they are not manoeverable like subsonic or supersonic cruise missile and secondly it's the other way round..Hypersonic would be easier to detect because of bigger exhaust not the subsonic with smaller exhaust.

actually no.

hypersonic missile in low level flying modes are being fielded. as such no missile is truly invisible in terms of 'terrain hugging' as RADARs have moved into realm of ground penetrating and low level scanning leaving zero meters of invisible scan level.

In addition using the rationale for detection on IR signature, its obatined even for AAMs nowadays ...... so redundant to get into it.

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

hmmm!good thing indians have placed the green pine radar in kashmir ,punch district 60 kms across the border,well let us get into the whole thing ,oky lets assume i am the general incharge of defending northern areas of pakistan,1st thing i would like to do is cut of enemy intel and one source of that intel will be this green pine radar(and awacs but thats another story) sitting across the border keeping an eye on my airspace,so we have 60 kms to the target,then i would ring up isi which will report in both human intel and electronic intel (Erieye Ground Interface Segment,will surely recognise radiation emmiters across the border) on radars,well next evaluation (i am going to exagerate this a bit so that nobody questions it make it into enemy fortress),oky we have intel that enemy has 6 barak sams sitting on the transit route for my cruise missiles i'll add on extra threat level and consider 7 sams just to be sure,hmm! the next step i'll ring up northern aircommand to be prepared with 10 mirage3s with raad cruise missile on each,5 jf-17s armed with aim-120and harm each and 10 f-7s with aoa weapons,and a mirage 5 with jaming pods,a total of 26 paf fighter jets can't risk f-16s man just can't they will be needed else where(to attack pune airbase probably the air traning centre and su-30 base,i can bet indians will use that base for their precious su-30s it will be stupid to place them in range of paf jets),meanwhile will get a colonel to prepare 20 cruise missiles for the operation,the operation will be carried out at night.
23:50 hours the war goes on ,paf defending its airspace infantry men defending their borders,exchange of heavy artillery shellings,and about 50 kms from border a line of babur cruise missile batteries is prepared to launch its 20 missiles,the 26 fighters have kept at a 100feet from ground scince they left peshawar airbase and are holding at 70 kms from broder keeping radio silence and there radars off to avoid detection by radiation or radio traffic ,the airmen have thoroughly studied the intel data and each of the mirage 3 pilots has a target assigned for him,the 5 jf-17s and 10 f-7s are suppose to give them protection from air threats in addition jf-17 will also have to launch harms when the time comes,they will remain 5 miles behind them low and on guard,23:55 the cruise missiles are cleared to launch,the battery operators punched in last info of the known radar positions the radar on cruise missiles will automatically on reaching that sector target 500 yards of target with its war head of cluster bombs and then itself hit the target,the fighters are cleared for a gO! and they lay low and head for the border leading jet will be the mirage5 with jammers following him a formation of mirage3s,jf-17s,f-7s respectively,there might be enemy jets in the air so they will remain low maintain their altitude while ereye flying deep inside pak will guide them with its radar on possible air hostiles,crossing the border mirage 5 will turn on its jamming equipment blinding enemy radars jf-17s will go to afterburner and climb to 30000ft turn their radars on their harm missiles will start tracking radiation emmiters will get multiple locks will break radio silence they will make sure each target locked is not the same and fire then fallback with mirage 3s now its their turn to launch and they will launch there raad missiles for green pine targets remaining in the jaming umbrella,all this will be done in 15 seconds and 5 kms into indian airspace,now iaf jets will be heading for the direction of the jaming aircraft with them blinded by jaming the whole formation will turn arnd go to afterbruners and head home and enter freindly space in seconds where freindlies assigned to guard airspace will towards incoming hostiles,meanwhile the harm missiles will go for the radars of baraks either the enemy will turn of those radars or take the risk of them being destroyed,either ways it will give enough time for twenty baburs and 10 raads to make it to the greenpines while harm's clears their way,even if barak manages to stay on line and somehow detects and fire a missile at each and each one has a kill b4 being destroyed itself by harm ,that still means 20 cruise missiles on their course and even if the targets have a CIWS goalkeeper or kashtan in its proximity how many will that thing stop at least one will make it through (and thats overestimating ciws)so there we go we just eliminated a enemy threat,indians must have their intrest keeping greenpine so close to border to keep an eye on pak airspace which makes it ideal cruise missile target,and about sub-sonic cruise missiles well all the fast and supersonic russian cruise missiles in 90 gulf war were shot down by patriots but the old russian subsonic cruise missiles patriot could'nt shoot down a single one,so i won't worry about indian brahmos missile it will work only in case of ground support from a few miles away under no sam cover on opposite end,the longer it is in air in sam airspace it will be eliminated,so i won't worry about it at all,and if america gives us predators then in that case they would also do well to attack these sam posts,why did i chose barak well! thats the one better then the s-300 and indian ones don't even come close to these,anywayz peace to u all except the ones who think they can attack pak and get away with it we will be ur nightmare even after the war

 

[godsavetheworld]

hmmm!good thing indians have placed the green pine radar in kashmir ,punch district 60 kms across the border,well let us get into the whole thing ,oky lets assume i am the general incharge of defending northern areas of pakistan,1st thing i would like to do is cut of enemy intel and one source of that intel will be this green pine radar(and awacs but thats another story) sitting across the border keeping an eye on my airspace,so we have 60 kms to the target,then i would ring up isi which will report in both human intel and electronic intel (Erieye Ground Interface Segment,will surely recognise radiation emmiters across the border) on radars,well next evaluation (i am going to exagerate this a bit so that nobody questions it make it into enemy fortress),oky we have intel that enemy has 6 barak sams sitting on the transit route for my cruise missiles i'll add on extra threat level and consider 7 sams just to be sure,hmm! the next step i'll ring up northern aircommand to be prepared with 10 mirage3s with raad cruise missile on each,5 jf-17s armed with aim-120and harm each and 10 f-7s with aoa weapons,and a mirage 5 with jaming pods,a total of 26 paf fighter jets can't risk f-16s man just can't they will be needed else where(to attack pune airbase probably the air traning centre and su-30 base,i can bet indians will use that base for their precious su-30s it will be stupid to place them in range of paf jets),meanwhile will get a colonel to prepare 20 cruise missiles for the operation,the operation will be carried out at night.
23:50 hours the war goes on ,paf defending its airspace infantry men defending their borders,exchange of heavy artillery shellings,and about 50 kms from border a line of babur cruise missile batteries is prepared to launch its 20 missiles,the 26 fighters have kept at a 100feet from ground scince they left peshawar airbase and are holding at 70 kms from broder keeping radio silence and there radars off to avoid detection by radiation or radio traffic ,the airmen have thoroughly studied the intel data and each of the mirage 3 pilots has a target assigned for him,the 5 jf-17s and 10 f-7s are suppose to give them protection from air threats in addition jf-17 will also have to launch harms when the time comes,they will remain 5 miles behind them low and on guard,23:55 the cruise missiles are cleared to launch,the battery operators punched in last info of the known radar positions the radar on cruise missiles will automatically on reaching that sector target 500 yards of target with its war head of cluster bombs and then itself hit the target,the fighters are cleared for a gO! and they lay low and head for the border leading jet will be the mirage5 with jammers following him a formation of mirage3s,jf-17s,f-7s respectively,there might be enemy jets in the air so they will remain low maintain their altitude while ereye flying deep inside pak will guide them with its radar on possible air hostiles,crossing the border mirage 5 will turn on its jamming equipment blinding enemy radars jf-17s will go to afterburner and climb to 30000ft turn their radars on their harm missiles will start tracking radiation emmiters will get multiple locks will break radio silence they will make sure each target locked is not the same and fire then fallback with mirage 3s now its their turn to launch and they will launch there raad missiles for green pine targets remaining in the jaming umbrella,all this will be done in 15 seconds and 5 kms into indian airspace,now iaf jets will be heading for the direction of the jaming aircraft with them blinded by jaming the whole formation will turn arnd go to afterbruners and head home and enter freindly space in seconds where freindlies assigned to guard airspace will towards incoming hostiles,meanwhile the harm missiles will go for the radars of baraks either the enemy will turn of those radars or take the risk of them being destroyed,either ways it will give enough time for twenty baburs and 10 raads to make it to the greenpines while harm's clears their way,even if barak manages to stay on line and somehow detects and fire a missile at each and each one has a kill b4 being destroyed itself by harm ,that still means 20 cruise missiles on their course and even if the targets have a CIWS goalkeeper or kashtan in its proximity how many will that thing stop at least one will make it through (and thats overestimating ciws)so there we go we just eliminated a enemy threat,indians must have their intrest keeping greenpine so close to border to keep an eye on pak airspace which makes it ideal cruise missile target,and about sub-sonic cruise missiles well all the fast and supersonic russian cruise missiles in 90 gulf war were shot down by patriots but the old russian subsonic cruise missiles patriot could'nt shoot down a single one,so i won't worry about indian brahmos missile it will work only in case of ground support from a few miles away under no sam cover on opposite end,the longer it is in air in sam airspace it will be eliminated,so i won't worry about it at all,and if america gives us predators then in that case they would also do well to attack these sam posts,why did i chose barak well! thats the one better then the s-300 and indian ones don't even come close to these,anywayz peace to u all except the ones who think they can attack pak and get away with it we will be ur nightmare even after the war

Without even bothering to go through all that jingo..
What makes you think Indians are gonna make it that easy a target that you can write about destrying it on a forum?

Remember: Never understimate your enemy. Same goes for India.

 

[Muradk]

hmmm!good thing indians have placed the green pine radar in kashmir ,punch district 60 kms across the border,well let us get into the whole thing ,oky lets assume i am the general incharge of defending northern areas of pakistan,1st thing i would like to do is cut of enemy intel and one source of that intel will be this green pine radar(and awacs but thats another story) sitting across the border keeping an eye on my airspace,so we have 60 kms to the target,then i would ring up isi which will report in both human intel and electronic intel (Erieye Ground Interface Segment,will surely recognise radiation emmiters across the border) on radars,well next evaluation (i am going to exagerate this a bit so that nobody questions it make it into enemy fortress),oky we have intel that enemy has 6 barak sams sitting on the transit route for my cruise missiles i'll add on extra threat level and consider 7 sams just to be sure,hmm! the next step i'll ring up northern aircommand to be prepared with 10 mirage3s with raad cruise missile on each,5 jf-17s armed with aim-120and harm each and 10 f-7s with aoa weapons,and a mirage 5 with jaming pods,a total of 26 paf fighter jets can't risk f-16s man just can't they will be needed else where(to attack pune airbase probably the air traning centre and su-30 base,i can bet indians will use that base for their precious su-30s it will be stupid to place them in range of paf jets),meanwhile will get a colonel to prepare 20 cruise missiles for the operation,the operation will be carried out at night.
23:50 hours the war goes on ,paf defending its airspace infantry men defending their borders,exchange of heavy artillery shellings,and about 50 kms from border a line of babur cruise missile batteries is prepared to launch its 20 missiles,the 26 fighters have kept at a 100feet from ground scince they left peshawar airbase and are holding at 70 kms from broder keeping radio silence and there radars off to avoid detection by radiation or radio traffic ,the airmen have thoroughly studied the intel data and each of the mirage 3 pilots has a target assigned for him,the 5 jf-17s and 10 f-7s are suppose to give them protection from air threats in addition jf-17 will also have to launch harms when the time comes,they will remain 5 miles behind them low and on guard,23:55 the cruise missiles are cleared to launch,the battery operators punched in last info of the known radar positions the radar on cruise missiles will automatically on reaching that sector target 500 yards of target with its war head of cluster bombs and then itself hit the target,the fighters are cleared for a gO! and they lay low and head for the border leading jet will be the mirage5 with jammers following him a formation of mirage3s,jf-17s,f-7s respectively,there might be enemy jets in the air so they will remain low maintain their altitude while ereye flying deep inside pak will guide them with its radar on possible air hostiles,crossing the border mirage 5 will turn on its jamming equipment blinding enemy radars jf-17s will go to afterburner and climb to 30000ft turn their radars on their harm missiles will start tracking radiation emmiters will get multiple locks will break radio silence they will make sure each target locked is not the same and fire then fallback with mirage 3s now its their turn to launch and they will launch there raad missiles for green pine targets remaining in the jaming umbrella,all this will be done in 15 seconds and 5 kms into indian airspace,now iaf jets will be heading for the direction of the jaming aircraft with them blinded by jaming the whole formation will turn arnd go to afterbruners and head home and enter freindly space in seconds where freindlies assigned to guard airspace will towards incoming hostiles,meanwhile the harm missiles will go for the radars of baraks either the enemy will turn of those radars or take the risk of them being destroyed,either ways it will give enough time for twenty baburs and 10 raads to make it to the greenpines while harm's clears their way,even if barak manages to stay on line and somehow detects and fire a missile at each and each one has a kill b4 being destroyed itself by harm ,that still means 20 cruise missiles on their course and even if the targets have a CIWS goalkeeper or kashtan in its proximity how many will that thing stop at least one will make it through (and thats overestimating ciws)so there we go we just eliminated a enemy threat,indians must have their intrest keeping greenpine so close to border to keep an eye on pak airspace which makes it ideal cruise missile target,and about sub-sonic cruise missiles well all the fast and supersonic russian cruise missiles in 90 gulf war were shot down by patriots but the old russian subsonic cruise missiles patriot could'nt shoot down a single one,so i won't worry about indian brahmos missile it will work only in case of ground support from a few miles away under no sam cover on opposite end,the longer it is in air in sam airspace it will be eliminated,so i won't worry about it at all,and if america gives us predators then in that case they would also do well to attack these sam posts,why did i chose barak well! thats the one better then the s-300 and indian ones don't even come close to these,anywayz peace to u all except the ones who think they can attack pak and get away with it we will be ur nightmare even after the war

If you tell PAF that you need so many fighters for this mission they will probably hang up on you, You never use so many fighters for a mission like that. 4 to 6 fighters are enough trust me I have been in that situation.

 

[Hellfire]

Actually a nice story line for a great best seller war fiction!!

Some problems though.

1. The detection of PAF fighters by IAF today operating within their own airspace is complete and in real time updated. As such, any force taking to air in the said scenario will be known to be heading towards ONLY India.

2. Jamming is only effective till a certain point after which a "burn through" occurs. As such jamming is diffcult to achieve or effective in close in ranges.

3. Spyder system has two missiles: Radar guided and IR seeking ..... so they really dont need to keep their systems on if they send some IRs up.

4. IAF ACs are highly integrated and interlinked today. Situational awareness is complete and updated in real time from live feeds from multiple sources: ground/air/space based assets. So interception is highly probable.

5. Babur lanuch will entail a nuclear response. Since Indians wont know if its a nuclear or conventional strike, so no Pakistani general/air marshal will give that insane order!!

 

[forcetrip]

Wow .. everything but the kitchen sink .. How many planes??? .. I liked it though, well imagined.. a little far fetched and too well coordinated to actually pull off
what i got from the story is ..with multiple distractions .. anything is possible ..
and no India will not launch nukes till its hit first .. that I can very well guarantee you..

 

[Haanzo]

why is every one thinking of war ....PLEASE ....stp this non sense india and pakistan will be on path to peace and surely bureaucrats on both sides are not naive enough to do such things rit now

and EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN WAR.....AND GREENPINE IS NOT THE ONLY RADAR FOR AIR DEFENSE ...THERE ARE OTHER RADARS TOOO....

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

hang up lolz ,well i think i exagerated a bit yeah 4 to 6 will do,but i think f-7s mirage 3s and mirage 5s are expandable and if they operate so close to the border even if enemy counter attack comes in our pilots will be able to bail out in their own territory and manage to shoot down a thing or two,and ofcourse all this operation has to be premptive

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

well placing it 50 kms from border will cover 450 kms of pak airspace,the further away u place them the less pak airspace and less of a threat,yeah never underestimate ur enemy,i don't ur su-30s have changed the balance of power,infact our southern command should carry out premptive strikes,against iaf bases with su-30s using external fuel tanks to reach those deep airbases,so should our navy with their versions of sub launched cruise missiles yeah!i know they have none but they r workin on it,

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

Actually a nice story line for a great best seller war fiction!!

Some problems though.

1. The detection of PAF fighters by IAF today operating within their own airspace is complete and in real time updated. As such, any force taking to air in the said scenario will be known to be heading towards ONLY India.

2. Jamming is only effective till a certain point after which a "burn through" occurs. As such jamming is diffcult to achieve or effective in close in ranges.

3. Spyder system has two missiles: Radar guided and IR seeking ..... so they really dont need to keep their systems on if they send some IRs up.

4. IAF ACs are highly integrated and interlinked today. Situational awareness is complete and updated in real time from live feeds from multiple sources: ground/air/space based assets. So interception is highly probable.

5. Babur lanuch will entail a nuclear response. Since Indians wont know if its a nuclear or conventional strike, so no Pakistani general/air marshal will give that insane order!!

ans coresponding to your points:
1)well! if those jets keep below radar (keep kashmirs altitude in mind and terrarain which will interfere to detect few 1000 feet above ground level in pak hence a perfect cover for approch)and take of from central command (sargodha)instead of northern incase of human intel still india will be expecting them to enter into punjab,not northern areas and kashmir,fuel won't be a prob deception is the way to win the war,ofcouse we will have to follow the israeli example of 63 i mean this should all happen premptively bcuz when total war break's out it will be impossible.

2)agreed but once they are in range and start tracking turning their radars on,it will be all a matter of seconds enough to jam sams in range not to lock them on their homing missiles.

3)again geography plus in ir ur range is limited to 60 kms most depending on weather conditions plus its nearly impossible to detect a aircraft at night ,and moreover after launch u still have to keep the ir on the target night,weather,range,terrarain disruption,keeping a fix makes it quite difficult i would say,

4)Interception is probable thats why i allocated so much aircraft ,i won't mind f-7s poping up,as long as the mission gets done and the jets with actual weaponry to destroy priorty ground tgts acheive their objective.i am talking about premptive that means when this operation will be launched there will be aircraft heading for full assault on enemy half distraction for iaf half avoiding enemy close to ground heading straight under their awacs climb up straight underneath and destroy them,there will be losses but worth it,Satelite well spy satelite takes arnd 16 hoursapprox to make a full revolution arnd earth india has two satellites well that gives us a window of 8 hours to carry out logistics for and carry out the operation.

5)we really can't tell with the resources at hand and projected enemy advantages bcuz of these tgts might be threat enough for a general to take the risk plus they will only be detected at the time of launch once they come close doen to their crusing altitude and dissapear from radars that will let them know its not a nuke launch but cruise but to what tgt.

anyways i am open for counter suggestions plz do let me know anythin else

 

[Hellfire]

lionheartsalahudin

well few points:


1)well! if those jets keep below radar (keep kashmirs altitude in mind and terrarain which will interfere to detect few 1000 feet above ground level in pak hence a perfect cover for approch)and take of from central command (sargodha)instead of northern incase of human intel still india will be expecting them to enter into punjab,not northern areas and kashmir,fuel won't be a prob deception is the way to win the war,ofcouse we will have to follow the israeli example of 63 i mean this should all happen premptively bcuz when total war break's out it will be impossible.

That is exactly kept in mind while the inference was made. SU-30s are being utilised as part time AWACs till as such time the dedicated AWACs come into replace A-50s which is being used right now.

As such, there is an effective overlapping of detection parameters. Furthermore, the gradient is steeper as you fly from Pakistan towards Indian territory in the region you have quoted. As such, the advantage is slightly towards the defenders in this case as detection chances increase due to "pop up" of attacking assets to navigate higher geographical structures.



2)agreed but once they are in range and start tracking turning their radars on,it will be all a matter of seconds enough to jam sams in range not to lock them on their homing missiles.

Two points here. With initial lock from SAM Radar of the force, the coordinates will immediately be fed into the mainframe controller and as such distributed to all avaliable assets immediately. I had stressed that IAF is now completely integrated in those aspects. The coordinates will be accessible in real time to CAP which is always in air in the said region irrespective of level of threat as perceived to be low.

Secondly, the RADAR can be switched off and an alternate can track the incoming flight as also update the references in real time till as such time Jamming comes into effect if at all for SAM sites have anti-jamming softwares nowadays and its the question of who prevails.


3)again geography plus in ir ur range is limited to 60 kms most depending on weather conditions plus its nearly impossible to detect a aircraft at night ,and moreover after launch u still have to keep the ir on the target night,weather,range,terrarain disruption,keeping a fix makes it quite difficult i would say,

Agreed for missiles about 10 years back, not anymore. the Derby and Python missiles with SPYDER system are able to be launched without specific lock ons and they actively seek incoming targets. As such, once the acquisition of the coordinates is done by the primary radar, the same can be shut down and the missiles launched in LOAL mode (Lock On After Launch) using the IR/Radar seeker on the missile itself.

4)Interception is probable thats why i allocated so much aircraft ,i won't mind f-7s poping up,as long as the mission gets done and the jets with actual weaponry to destroy priorty ground tgts acheive their objective.i am talking about premptive that means when this operation will be launched there will be aircraft heading for full assault on enemy half distraction for iaf half avoiding enemy close to ground heading straight under their awacs climb up straight underneath and destroy them,there will be losses but worth it,Satelite well spy satelite takes arnd 16 hoursapprox to make a full revolution arnd earth india has two satellites well that gives us a window of 8 hours to carry out logistics for and carry out the operation.

actually no. IRS system is configured for observation of Pakistan as also a couple of Technological Satellites have been put for the purpose since 2002 till as such time dedicated satellites come into play. As such sat cover is continuous. At the same time, today capability exists to track any AC taking off within Pakistani Airspace. You may accept it or disbelieve it, but I assure you, that it is so.

 

[Hellfire]

and no India will not launch nukes till its hit first .. that I can very well guarantee you..

Trust me, I know what I am talking about, launch a cruise missile and India WILL retaliate with a nuclear strike as no one will wait to find if its a nuke or not.

The idea is too risky, even if you were to humor that India will wait. Pakistan has declared first use policy!