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Nawaz Sharif gives the impression of having all the time in the world. As he welcomes us to his family estate on the outskirts of Lahore, the only sounds to disturb our small talk are the cries of peacocks patrolling his grounds. To the left is a private cricket ground, to the right a deer park. A giant bronze lion guards the front door. Inside his palatial residence, servants glide to and fro. Within moments of our arrival, a salver with glasses of fresh fruit juice appears.
This image of a timeless feudal tranquillity could just as easily have been from half a century ago when Sharifs father built up the familys industrial and commercial empire after moving to Lahore shortly before independence. Yet the impression is deceptive. Shortly before we had pulled up at Sharifs front gate with its sand-bagged gun emplacements and tank traps, we had learnt that just 10 miles away a dozen or so Islamist militants had stormed a police academy, shooting all who stood in their way. Even as we sip our pineapple and strawberry juice, hundreds of soldiers are fighting to regain control in a battle that is to leave at least eight dead and scores more wounded.
The assault, the second brazen attack in the bustling commercial city of Lahore in under a month, is a bleak reminder of the fragility of the Pakistani state. We have come to have breakfast with the 59-year-old tipped to be the countrys next prime minister and to hear his plans for his countrys future.
As soon as we are seated, we suggest getting right down to discussing Pakistans crisis, realising that the unfolding drama might limit our time. Sharif smiles munificently and, gently ignoring our overture, suggests we might first like something to eat. Without an apparent summons, the doors to the drawing room open and two uniformed aides sweep in with a breakfast trolley. They trundle past the two stuffed lions flanking the entrance and on round a miniature ornamental city, a present from Sharifs allies in Saudi Arabia, to beside the grand reproduction French chairs on which we are perched.
Sharif has twice been Pakistans prime minister, from 1990-1993 and from 1997-1999, and is currently leader of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League (N) party. Just over a month ago, he was effectively banned from contesting political office. The controversial Supreme Court ruling was widely seen as the result of pressure from the president, Asif Ali Zardari, widower of Sharifs former rival Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated in December 2007. But last month, Sharif defied house arrest to join the crowds at a march protesting against Zardaris rule. His presence at the demonstration appeared to tip the balance and to force Zardari into a humiliating climbdown. Overnight the president reinstated dozens of judges, including the chief justice who had been suspended by the previous military leader, General Pervez Musharraf. Such is the apparent fragility of Zardaris government, as it flounders in the face of the insurgency, that diplomats increasingly speculate that Sharif may be in power again by the end of the year.
The walls of Sharifs reception hall are devoted to dozens of pictures of his days in power: Sharif with Bill Clinton, with Kofi Annan, with Mohammad Khatami, Irans former reformist president, and so on. But in his second term he alarmed Washington with a series of moves, in particular his decision in 1998 to test a nuclear bomb, in the wake of an Indian test; his introduction of a bill to enforce Islamic law (it was subsequently rejected by the Senate); and the ill-fated 1999 attack on Kargil, a part of Indian Kashmir. His tenure ended prematurely when Musharraf, then army chief of staff, ousted him in a coup in 1999. It was clear that Washington was not especially sad to see him go.
Settling back in his seat, a picture of calm in his light grey shalwar kameez, Sharif tells us he is much more satisfied as an opposition leader, pushing for true democracy, than he ever was as a prime minister. Sharif is a generous host. The scale of his entertaining is legendary in Pakistan. We were told about an irreverent joke that was doing the rounds in Lahore last month: even as the convoy of protesters drove through the outskirts of the city amid high drama, Sharif would have wanted to stop to point out to his companions his favourite provisioners. He is not, however, tempted by the food on the breakfast trolley. Rather, as we enjoy the savoury pastries and dainty sandwiches on offer, he digresses into his past.
First come the sporting memories. He is an accomplished cricketer, having played First Class matches including against a Rest of the World eleven. He recalls playing a match at the 1993 Commonwealth summit in Zimbabwe with John Major, the then British prime minister, and other ministers. I was the highest scorer, 36 not out, he says. He also remembers playing in the 1980s as an opening batsman against a West Indian side that included some of its famously fearsome fast bowlers.
If youve faced the West Indies, you can face anything, we venture. Sharif smiles but appears to think the challenges facing him and Pakistan make lining up against West Indian fast bowlers seem like a tea party. He recalls how years ago he was told to play on the front foot, with more aggression, and that is what he has done. As his servants serve cardamom tea in minuscule china cups, he launches into a fierce denunciation of his political rivals.
It was Bhuttos father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who as prime minister in 1972 nationalised the Sharif familys steel mill. (Bhutto was later ousted in a coup and executed.) We had not a penny in compensation, Sharif says, adding that that was the moment when his father, Mian Muhammad Sharif, directed him to enter politics. His enmity with the Bhutto dynasty clearly endures. But that is nothing to his hatred for the man who deposed him. He says Musharrafs eight-year rule fuelled the rise of radicalism in Pakistan. Mr Musharrafs dictatorship ... has been responsible for this ... terrorism, extremism and radicalism. Dictatorships are excellent breeding ground for this kind of activity. If the [democratic] system was not derailed, I am sure we wouldnt have any such problem like terrorism or these suicide bombings.
When Musharraf launched his coup in 1999, Sharifs family properties were confiscated. Facing charges of colossal corruption, he was exiled to Saudi Arabia in 2000. He was not even allowed to accompany his fathers body home for his funeral after the latter died in Jeddah in 2004.
By now the coffee has arrived. It is strong and thick. We take it as a signal to discuss more pressing matters: the present and future. What does our host think of the Obama administrations new policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan and also its criticism of his country? (President Barack Obama had warned overnight that extremism posed a serious threat to Pakistan.) Does he back the recent peace deals with jihadis? (These deals, particularly the surrender of the Swat valley to armed extremists, have been seen by the US military as appeasement.) Why has he not condemned the terrorist attacks? (His apparent reluctance to speak out forcefully against them has fed the theory that he is sympathetic to the terrorists goals.)
Sharifs answers suggest that, during his time in exile from 2000 to 2007, he has learnt the political wiles that he sometimes seemed to lack when in power. He balances back and forth, knowing that he cannot sound too supportive of the US if he is to retain the sympathies of many ordinary Pakistanis, and yet also knowing that he has to woo Washington. So he commends Obama for being more open-minded than his predecessor but he stops short of endorsing the military campaign and savages the record of George W Bush, who was, says Sharif, never interested in restoring democracy. Mr Obama has now come up with a new policy with little changes, very minor changes as compared to the last policy. But I think the consultative process is better than during Mr Bushs time, he says.
As for the peace deals with militants, he talks of the need for a broader initiative, beyond the use of force, and for vast investment into the Islamists strongholds. We have got to have a multi-pronged approach and pump maximum resources into the social sector and provide job opportunities to the people who live there. Basically, those who are doing all this are jobless people. They have nothing to do. Therefore, it is very easy for all those people to draw them in to this kind of an activity.
To the US military and its allies engaged in fighting the Taliban, this may sound close to appeasement. So why, we ask, does he not forcefully condemn the terrorists? He bridles and says that is a calumny of his enemies. Nobody would ever approve this kind of activity which is going on. We all condemn terrorism. We have also got to go into the causes of terrorism. He will transform Pakistan by restoring its democratic institutions, he insists.
We press ahead. What, we ask, about his connections with Saudi Arabia? What about the theory of some analysts that there is a Saudi-isation of Pakistan? The Saudis strict conservative Wahhabi form of Islam has in recent years been gaining increasing traction in parts of Pakistan at the expense of the more liberal south Asian tradition. Our host will not be drawn. Instead he plays the smothering role he once deployed against the West Indian fast bowlers. He knows nothing of Saudi-isation. Saudi Arabia is a close friend and has been playing a positive role.
While his social conservativism and links to Saudi Arabia will make him more acceptable to the Islamists than the more secular Zardari, the worry in the west is that Sharif is too close to the Islamists and will not be willing to prosecute a successful campaign against the insurgents.
Is he a social conservative? Would he promote shariah law? Our party is a very forward-looking, progressive, democratic party, he says. I stand for democracy and I stand for the democratic institutions. I stand for rule of law, my struggle all [the years], since I was deposed, has been for the rule of law.
On the eve of our encounter, several senior US generals had bluntly accused the ISI, Pakistans military intelligence, which backed the Taliban in the 1990s, of still sympathising with al-Qaeda. Does he agree? Here Sharif is potentially on perilous ground. It is the army after all that deposed him in 1999. He ducks the question. No ISI will ever be able to get involved in these kinds of activities, he says. I dont believe that the ISI should get involved in helping elements who are creating problems for our own country and for our friends in the west. I dont think it is possible.
At that point, two women in elegant floral-patterned kurta and paijamas arrive for the next audience. They are ushered in and sit the far side of Sharif. They appear to belong to the Lahore elite. They speak openly and confidently to us and, indeed, take charge of the conversation. There is clearly no way they would readily submit to wearing a veil and retreating from view. One runs an education foundation that supports secondary schools across Pakistan. We compare notes on the British syllabus that her schools teach.
The conversation is a reminder of the secular Pakistan that is now fighting for its life. Sharif purports to be the bridge between Pakistans two worlds, secular and Islamist. And yet he seems genuinely at a loss to explain the latest attacks on Lahore. Residents of Lahore have traditionally liked to see themselves as a world apart from the frontier region with Afghanistan, where extremists linked to the Taliban hold sway. Yet now their city and way of life, too, seem under attack. It is only a month since Sri Lankas cricket touring team was attacked at a busy roundabout in Lahore in mid-morning traffic.
As Sharif escorts us to the front door, a delivery van draws up and a man staggers past us clutching the largest platter of chocolates we have ever seen. They are, we guess, from an admirer. As we drive down the tree-lined avenue that leads to the gun emplacements and guards, we muse irreverently that if Sharif becomes prime minister, it will be a boom time for the catering industry. Then we are back on the streets, driving past nervous checkpoints in the vicinity of the besieged police academy, uncertain whether another Sharif premiership would reverse, slow or accelerate Pakistans slide to extremism, wondering indeed whether anyone can halt Pakistans slip into the abyss.
FT.com / Columnists / Lunch with the FT - Breakfast with the FT: Nawaz Sharif
This image of a timeless feudal tranquillity could just as easily have been from half a century ago when Sharifs father built up the familys industrial and commercial empire after moving to Lahore shortly before independence. Yet the impression is deceptive. Shortly before we had pulled up at Sharifs front gate with its sand-bagged gun emplacements and tank traps, we had learnt that just 10 miles away a dozen or so Islamist militants had stormed a police academy, shooting all who stood in their way. Even as we sip our pineapple and strawberry juice, hundreds of soldiers are fighting to regain control in a battle that is to leave at least eight dead and scores more wounded.
The assault, the second brazen attack in the bustling commercial city of Lahore in under a month, is a bleak reminder of the fragility of the Pakistani state. We have come to have breakfast with the 59-year-old tipped to be the countrys next prime minister and to hear his plans for his countrys future.
As soon as we are seated, we suggest getting right down to discussing Pakistans crisis, realising that the unfolding drama might limit our time. Sharif smiles munificently and, gently ignoring our overture, suggests we might first like something to eat. Without an apparent summons, the doors to the drawing room open and two uniformed aides sweep in with a breakfast trolley. They trundle past the two stuffed lions flanking the entrance and on round a miniature ornamental city, a present from Sharifs allies in Saudi Arabia, to beside the grand reproduction French chairs on which we are perched.
Sharif has twice been Pakistans prime minister, from 1990-1993 and from 1997-1999, and is currently leader of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League (N) party. Just over a month ago, he was effectively banned from contesting political office. The controversial Supreme Court ruling was widely seen as the result of pressure from the president, Asif Ali Zardari, widower of Sharifs former rival Benazir Bhutto, who was assassinated in December 2007. But last month, Sharif defied house arrest to join the crowds at a march protesting against Zardaris rule. His presence at the demonstration appeared to tip the balance and to force Zardari into a humiliating climbdown. Overnight the president reinstated dozens of judges, including the chief justice who had been suspended by the previous military leader, General Pervez Musharraf. Such is the apparent fragility of Zardaris government, as it flounders in the face of the insurgency, that diplomats increasingly speculate that Sharif may be in power again by the end of the year.
The walls of Sharifs reception hall are devoted to dozens of pictures of his days in power: Sharif with Bill Clinton, with Kofi Annan, with Mohammad Khatami, Irans former reformist president, and so on. But in his second term he alarmed Washington with a series of moves, in particular his decision in 1998 to test a nuclear bomb, in the wake of an Indian test; his introduction of a bill to enforce Islamic law (it was subsequently rejected by the Senate); and the ill-fated 1999 attack on Kargil, a part of Indian Kashmir. His tenure ended prematurely when Musharraf, then army chief of staff, ousted him in a coup in 1999. It was clear that Washington was not especially sad to see him go.
Settling back in his seat, a picture of calm in his light grey shalwar kameez, Sharif tells us he is much more satisfied as an opposition leader, pushing for true democracy, than he ever was as a prime minister. Sharif is a generous host. The scale of his entertaining is legendary in Pakistan. We were told about an irreverent joke that was doing the rounds in Lahore last month: even as the convoy of protesters drove through the outskirts of the city amid high drama, Sharif would have wanted to stop to point out to his companions his favourite provisioners. He is not, however, tempted by the food on the breakfast trolley. Rather, as we enjoy the savoury pastries and dainty sandwiches on offer, he digresses into his past.
First come the sporting memories. He is an accomplished cricketer, having played First Class matches including against a Rest of the World eleven. He recalls playing a match at the 1993 Commonwealth summit in Zimbabwe with John Major, the then British prime minister, and other ministers. I was the highest scorer, 36 not out, he says. He also remembers playing in the 1980s as an opening batsman against a West Indian side that included some of its famously fearsome fast bowlers.
If youve faced the West Indies, you can face anything, we venture. Sharif smiles but appears to think the challenges facing him and Pakistan make lining up against West Indian fast bowlers seem like a tea party. He recalls how years ago he was told to play on the front foot, with more aggression, and that is what he has done. As his servants serve cardamom tea in minuscule china cups, he launches into a fierce denunciation of his political rivals.
It was Bhuttos father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who as prime minister in 1972 nationalised the Sharif familys steel mill. (Bhutto was later ousted in a coup and executed.) We had not a penny in compensation, Sharif says, adding that that was the moment when his father, Mian Muhammad Sharif, directed him to enter politics. His enmity with the Bhutto dynasty clearly endures. But that is nothing to his hatred for the man who deposed him. He says Musharrafs eight-year rule fuelled the rise of radicalism in Pakistan. Mr Musharrafs dictatorship ... has been responsible for this ... terrorism, extremism and radicalism. Dictatorships are excellent breeding ground for this kind of activity. If the [democratic] system was not derailed, I am sure we wouldnt have any such problem like terrorism or these suicide bombings.
When Musharraf launched his coup in 1999, Sharifs family properties were confiscated. Facing charges of colossal corruption, he was exiled to Saudi Arabia in 2000. He was not even allowed to accompany his fathers body home for his funeral after the latter died in Jeddah in 2004.
By now the coffee has arrived. It is strong and thick. We take it as a signal to discuss more pressing matters: the present and future. What does our host think of the Obama administrations new policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan and also its criticism of his country? (President Barack Obama had warned overnight that extremism posed a serious threat to Pakistan.) Does he back the recent peace deals with jihadis? (These deals, particularly the surrender of the Swat valley to armed extremists, have been seen by the US military as appeasement.) Why has he not condemned the terrorist attacks? (His apparent reluctance to speak out forcefully against them has fed the theory that he is sympathetic to the terrorists goals.)
Sharifs answers suggest that, during his time in exile from 2000 to 2007, he has learnt the political wiles that he sometimes seemed to lack when in power. He balances back and forth, knowing that he cannot sound too supportive of the US if he is to retain the sympathies of many ordinary Pakistanis, and yet also knowing that he has to woo Washington. So he commends Obama for being more open-minded than his predecessor but he stops short of endorsing the military campaign and savages the record of George W Bush, who was, says Sharif, never interested in restoring democracy. Mr Obama has now come up with a new policy with little changes, very minor changes as compared to the last policy. But I think the consultative process is better than during Mr Bushs time, he says.
As for the peace deals with militants, he talks of the need for a broader initiative, beyond the use of force, and for vast investment into the Islamists strongholds. We have got to have a multi-pronged approach and pump maximum resources into the social sector and provide job opportunities to the people who live there. Basically, those who are doing all this are jobless people. They have nothing to do. Therefore, it is very easy for all those people to draw them in to this kind of an activity.
To the US military and its allies engaged in fighting the Taliban, this may sound close to appeasement. So why, we ask, does he not forcefully condemn the terrorists? He bridles and says that is a calumny of his enemies. Nobody would ever approve this kind of activity which is going on. We all condemn terrorism. We have also got to go into the causes of terrorism. He will transform Pakistan by restoring its democratic institutions, he insists.
We press ahead. What, we ask, about his connections with Saudi Arabia? What about the theory of some analysts that there is a Saudi-isation of Pakistan? The Saudis strict conservative Wahhabi form of Islam has in recent years been gaining increasing traction in parts of Pakistan at the expense of the more liberal south Asian tradition. Our host will not be drawn. Instead he plays the smothering role he once deployed against the West Indian fast bowlers. He knows nothing of Saudi-isation. Saudi Arabia is a close friend and has been playing a positive role.
While his social conservativism and links to Saudi Arabia will make him more acceptable to the Islamists than the more secular Zardari, the worry in the west is that Sharif is too close to the Islamists and will not be willing to prosecute a successful campaign against the insurgents.
Is he a social conservative? Would he promote shariah law? Our party is a very forward-looking, progressive, democratic party, he says. I stand for democracy and I stand for the democratic institutions. I stand for rule of law, my struggle all [the years], since I was deposed, has been for the rule of law.
On the eve of our encounter, several senior US generals had bluntly accused the ISI, Pakistans military intelligence, which backed the Taliban in the 1990s, of still sympathising with al-Qaeda. Does he agree? Here Sharif is potentially on perilous ground. It is the army after all that deposed him in 1999. He ducks the question. No ISI will ever be able to get involved in these kinds of activities, he says. I dont believe that the ISI should get involved in helping elements who are creating problems for our own country and for our friends in the west. I dont think it is possible.
At that point, two women in elegant floral-patterned kurta and paijamas arrive for the next audience. They are ushered in and sit the far side of Sharif. They appear to belong to the Lahore elite. They speak openly and confidently to us and, indeed, take charge of the conversation. There is clearly no way they would readily submit to wearing a veil and retreating from view. One runs an education foundation that supports secondary schools across Pakistan. We compare notes on the British syllabus that her schools teach.
The conversation is a reminder of the secular Pakistan that is now fighting for its life. Sharif purports to be the bridge between Pakistans two worlds, secular and Islamist. And yet he seems genuinely at a loss to explain the latest attacks on Lahore. Residents of Lahore have traditionally liked to see themselves as a world apart from the frontier region with Afghanistan, where extremists linked to the Taliban hold sway. Yet now their city and way of life, too, seem under attack. It is only a month since Sri Lankas cricket touring team was attacked at a busy roundabout in Lahore in mid-morning traffic.
As Sharif escorts us to the front door, a delivery van draws up and a man staggers past us clutching the largest platter of chocolates we have ever seen. They are, we guess, from an admirer. As we drive down the tree-lined avenue that leads to the gun emplacements and guards, we muse irreverently that if Sharif becomes prime minister, it will be a boom time for the catering industry. Then we are back on the streets, driving past nervous checkpoints in the vicinity of the besieged police academy, uncertain whether another Sharif premiership would reverse, slow or accelerate Pakistans slide to extremism, wondering indeed whether anyone can halt Pakistans slip into the abyss.
FT.com / Columnists / Lunch with the FT - Breakfast with the FT: Nawaz Sharif
