Brazil ratifies defence agreement with Sweden

[A.P. Richelieu]

http://www.janes.com/article/73354/brazil-ratifies-defence-agreement-with-sweden

The Brazilian Federal Senate on 22 August ratified a defence agreement signed by the governments of Brazil and Sweden in April 2014 for bilateral co-operation in research and development, logistics support, training, military exercises, and hardware acquisition.

Sweden’s Saab is playing a notable role in modernising the Brazilian armed forces via several contracts. There are no known Brazilian military sales to Sweden, although the former has tried to sell the latter aircraft.

Saab supplied RBS 70 air defence systems and associated Mk II missiles, anti-armour weapons, simulation equipment, electronic warfare systems, and is helping modernise E-99 AEW&C aircraft.

The biggest contract to date is for 36 Saab F-39 Gripen fighters and associated armament and equipment, with deliveries running from 2019-24 and 15 aircraft to be fully manufactured in Brazil.

 

[Gomig-21]

The biggest contract to date is for 36 Saab F-39 Gripen fighters and associated armament and equipment, with deliveries running from 2019-24 and 15 aircraft to be fully manufactured in Brazil.

That's a heck of a contract Brazil signed for those 36 Gripen E's and F's. It's pretty cool that they payed a ton of $ mostly for the "WAD" wide area panoramic touchscreen display option. What a great feature. Talk about innovative and current. I'm guessing the pilot has the option to go from touchscreen to push-button or dial or mouse even. Or he'll have special gloves to be able to operate the touchscreen instead of barehanded. Do the Swedish Gripens have the WAD in them?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That's a heck of a contract Brazil signed for those 36 Gripen E's and F's. It's pretty cool that they payed a ton of $ mostly for the "WAD" wide area panoramic touchscreen display option. What a great feature. Talk about innovative and current. I'm guessing the pilot has the option to go from touchscreen to push-button or dial or mouse even. Or he'll have special gloves to be able to operate the touchscreen instead of barehanded. Do the Swedish Gripens have the WAD in them?

There has been talks of up to a 100 Gripen total once it is in service.
The Navy has also started looking at Gripen.

No, I think the Swedish Gripen will keep the three displays.
The most expensive item in the contract is probably the development of the Gripen F two seater.
They are also cooperating on Gripen M (Maritime).

 

[Gomig-21]

There has been talks of up to a 100 Gripen total once it is in service.
The Navy has also started looking at Gripen.

No, I think the Swedish Gripen will keep the three displays.
The most expensive item in the contract is probably the development of the Gripen F two seater.
They are also cooperating on Gripen M (Maritime).

I had thought the development of the F was part of the original contract, but it makes sense since they paid an additional $1 billion on top of the original contract which is no small change.

Honestly, I'm surprised SAAB isn't getting even more contracts considering how state of the art and reasonably priced that fighter is (and cost per flight hour), comparatively speaking and with the Rafale and Typhoon being so overly-priced and expensive, not to mention the EFT doesn't even have an AESA radar until the next tranche. And despite being a single engine, it's competed very well with those other two.

After South Africa, maybe this Brazil order will open the door even more, and it should. Tough, though, in this day and age with the proliferation of the F-35 and even Sukhois, to compete, not to mention the availability of F-16's worldwide.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I had thought the development of the F was part of the original contract, but it makes sense since they paid an additional $1 billion on top of the original contract which is no small change.

Honestly, I'm surprised SAAB isn't getting even more contracts considering how state of the art and reasonably priced that fighter is (and cost per flight hour), comparatively speaking and with the Rafale and Typhoon being so overly-priced and expensive, not to mention the EFT doesn't even have an AESA radar until the next tranche. And despite being a single engine, it's competed very well with those other two.

After South Africa, maybe this Brazil order will open the door even more, and it should. Tough, though, in this day and age with the proliferation of the F-35 and even Sukhois, to compete, not to mention the availability of F-16's worldwide.

SAAB is limited by law from selling to many countries, including most if not all of ME,
where many of the recent deals happened.
NATO countries seems to tweak their procurement o ensure they buy F-35.
According to Norwegian calculations, the Gripen would have had much higher lifetime cost than that of the F-35, even if SAAB had given the aircraft for free...
You need very creative bookkeeping to come to that conclusion.
The Danes did the same.
Belgium demanded that Sweden support Belgium with tanker aircrafts in all future operations.
Big European Countries are buying EF and Rafale.

There are a number of Eastern/Central European countries that are dragging their feet,
but since NATO is supposed to increase the spending to 2% of GDP, money will be there.
Used F-16 from Portugal turned out to be more expensive than new Gripen C...

The only order lost recently was Indonesia.

 

[Gomig-21]

SAAB is limited by law to sell to many countries, including most if not all of ME,
where many of the recent deals happened.

SAAB isn't allowed to sell to Middle Eastern countries? How come?

According to Norwegian calculations, the Gripen would have had much higher lifetime cost than that of the F-35, even if SAAB had given the aircraft for free...
You need very creative bookkeeping to come to that conclusion.

LOL! Seriously? And they believed them? That's too funny. Can you tell the Norwegians I have some land on the moon to sell them?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

SAAB isn't allowed to sell to Middle Eastern countries? How come?



LOL! Seriously? And they believed them? That's too funny. Can you tell the Norwegians I have some land on the moon to sell them?

Whenever an Arms sale is going to happen, there is an evaluation of the situation in the potential country, but also the relations to Sweden.
If the country is a stable democracy it is most likely a Yes.
If it is a dictatorship, it is a no.
Aggressive behaviour towards neighbours give a lot of negative points.
Military Coups as well.
If a contract is signed, and the situation is changed, contracts will still be honoured.
There are no absolutes but it is safe to assume the ME is a no no for Gripen.
Pakistan as well, while Indonesia and Thailand is a Yes.
Other stuff like AWACS are OK for ME.

The Norwegians are aware that their calculations are crap.
Their decision was based on the desire to have their Joint Strike Missile approved
by the US as a standard item.
They needed a motivation to buy a much more expensive plane for the Norwegian public.
Wikileaks had a lot of details on this.

 

[Gomig-21]

Whenever an Arms sale is going to happen, there is an evaluation of the situation in the potential country, but also the relations to Sweden.
If the country is a stable democracy it is most likely a Yes.
If it is a dictatorship, it is a no.
Aggressive behaviour towards neighbours give a lot of negative points.
Military Coups as well.
If a contract is signed, and the situation is changed, contracts will still be honoured.
There are no absolutes but it is safe to assume the ME is a no no for Gripen.
Pakistan as well, while Indonesia and Thailand is a Yes.
Other stuff like AWACS are OK for ME.

The Norwegians are aware that their calculations are crap.
Their decision was based on the desire to have their Joint Strike Missile approved
by the US as a standard item.
They needed a motivation to buy a much more expensive plane for the Norwegian public.
Wikileaks had a lot of details on this.

I don't think there was ever a Middle Eastern country that was interested in the Gripen, if I'm not mistaken. The Eurocanard award seems to go to the Typhoon followed by the Rafale.

And why would Pakistan be excluded by the Swedes?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I don't think there was ever a Middle Eastern country that was interested in the Gripen, if I'm not mistaken. The Eurocanard award seems to go to the Typhoon followed by the Rafale.

And why would Pakistan be excluded by the Swedes?

They know from experience that it would be futile, so noone would consider it for more
than alf a second. We would never know if they had any interest.

As I said, it is a sum of things, and I can only guess at details

• Too many military coups, and military too influential even with a civilian government
• Ongoing Insurgency
• Aircrafts used to bomb its own population
• Conflicts with India, Afghanistan, Iran

They were allowed to buy EriEye,

 

[Tshering22]

They know from experience that it would be futile, so noone would consider it for more
than alf a second. We would never know if they had any interest.

As I said, it is a sum of things, and I can only guess at details

• Too many military coups, and military too influential even with a civilian government
• Ongoing Insurgency
• Aircrafts used to bomb its own population
• Conflicts with India, Afghanistan, Iran

They were allowed to buy EriEye,

I understand that you have certain national policies to follow. But given how up-tight your government is when it comes to democracy being the single largest determinant of a client, I doubt you will be able to harness a lot of opportunities around you.

Some countries don't have democracies but aren't tinpot dictatorships either. They just have a decisive government system which has been formed due to unique conditions in that country.

Just saying that in order to compete with other arms sellers, Swedish government will have to loosen up a bit.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I understand that you have certain national policies to follow. But given how up-tight your government is when it comes to democracy being the single largest determinant of a client, I doubt you will be able to harness a lot of opportunities around you.

Some countries don't have democracies but aren't tinpot dictatorships either. They just have a decisive government system which has been formed due to unique conditions in that country.

Just saying that in order to compete with other arms sellers, Swedish government will have to loosen up a bit.

Thailand is not the perfect country, but still got approval, so it is not a 100% requirement.
Some parties do want to make democracy a requirement, but they only have 10% of the votes.