Brazil once a poor country like Pakistan, now top meat and egg exporter: Imran Khan is not wrong!

[Darwin]

Hey, He may be a BUM but he is MY BUM!

Its a economics thread , lets stay on topic.
A pakistan doing well is good for its neighbours.
At the moment pakistan's attitude is " we hv nothing to lose so lets bring everyone down".

 

[Canuck786]

It won't as current government has no choice but to do root level surgery of entire economic system. External debt has already crossed 100 billion dollars mark. At this rate, further debt would lead to total economic collapse. This will not be allowed by establishment that literally hated Ishaq Dollar for his financial magic.

The only problem with that premise is none of them are qualified for these challenges. 80% of them are tested and have already failed many times before.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

It won't as current government has no choice but to do root level surgery of entire economic system. External debt has already crossed 100 billion dollars mark. At this rate, further debt would lead to total economic collapse. This will not be allowed by establishment that literally hated Ishaq Dollar for his financial magic.

 

[Norwegian]

I hope you meant current and not former here. GDP growth rate dropped from 5.8% to around 4 and inflation sky rocketing it's way to double digits; it's one embarrassment after another they have to deal with everyday. That is why the hen, eggs and bulls are introduced to divert attention from the real blunders being commited. Kind of reminds me of the 1997 movie 'Wag the Dog' starring Dustin Hoffman, Robert De Niro, and Anne Heche.

Former governments economic policies were GDP growth with external debt growth, along with fixed exchange rate, and no capital controls mechanism. This led to total disaster after 5 years. It was all expected by known economic science:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity

Cutting nose to spite the face. Philosophy of IK.
To get sympathy he keeps on putting pakistan down.
Lets see whether he has any new policies of his own or keeps on taking credit for NS started projects.
Kukkrun ku does not count.

What policies of pmln? Like increasing external debt to 100 billion dollars?

 

[Novice09]

See you started it by your own and make it success . You did not need to hear the lecture of eggonomics from prime minister to start it...others people also started by their own but failed in it so it all vary from individual to individual case

there is no guarantee that state will make it profitable for everyone and if it get in loss and state share loss then it will hurt economy instead of improving it

State sharing loss will make people careless... that is wrong... But government plays a big role in economic activities...

In India, from my personal experience... I can say that government support is VERY IMPORTANT... I can tell you that 4 major things done by state and central government has changed the situation on ground...

1. Soil Health Cards :: Initially, we were using DAP and UREA without knowing whether it is what our farm needs... after soil test, scientists told us the CROPS and required fertilizers (with quantity)... our profit is doubled...

2. Availability of electricity :: Till early 2014, our village used to get 8 hours of electricity... that too on weekly rotational basis... 8 hours in day and 8 hours at night... at day time, frequency was too low to operate tube well... thus, only 7*8=56 hours in 14 days... again not uninterrupted...
Now, 18 hours in a day... people rarely irrigate their fields at night time...

3. Availability of fertilizers :: till 2014, we were used to buy UREA at premium amount of 300/400 INR... UREA in government facilities was used to get over withing 1 hour...
Now, we buy UREA at government rates and it is easily available...

4. Law and Order :: Just read about buffalo theft in India and you will know how notorious they were earlier... killing farmers on slight resistance... Google Azam Khan and his buffalo to understand the GRAVITY of the problem... Farmers were used to go in groups to irrigate fields (forced to do that as electricity was available at night time only)...

 

[Darwin]

Former governments economic policies were GDP growth with external debt growth, along with fixed exchange rate, and no capital controls mechanism. This led to total disaster after 5 years. It was all expected by known economic science:
View attachment 524016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity


What policies of pmln? Like increasing external debt to 100 billion dollars?

This answer will not be popular but did he ever have full control over the nations policies ?
25 % of your annual budget caters to defense becausr you want strategic depth and grab land.
You cannot trade with your big neighbour because of the establishment. Rather buy expensive stuff from others.
As a eg , jf17 costs 30 m usd . You have more than 100 of these parked gathering dust.
Thats 3000 m usd , 3 b usd. But this is never considered in your external debt calculations ?
You hv unnecessarily embarked on frantically increasing your nuke pile . Making and maintaining costs money.
You were kept afloat by 30 b usd in 10 years from usa and 5 b usd from uk. So never had to manage your own affairs.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[airmarshal]

If Brazilian government can achieve all that in a few years with state sponsored capitalism, why not Pakistan? What's wrong with this nation laughing at its future?

Go ahead and do it . Who is stopping?

Bur seriously we have people here who consider this obligatory to defend and justify everything Imran say or do even if it make no sense

so then you should not mind when people post economic policy of PTI like this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1050203593461108738

Are you mocking your country or are you mocking Imran khan?

There is a difference.

If there is a better solution, the people who are criticizing, should come forward and offer. Then there are those who did their turn and were only busy stealing money and doing politics for personal benefit.

I see a lot of making fun of this egg and beef thing from a very contemptuous and condescending view mostly held by educated Pakistanis who think their knowledge is superior and they have right to opine. This disgusting mentality is cornerstone of educated Pakistani class which does not even remotely relate to problems and everyday challenges faced by poor Pakistanis.

There is sincerity in Imran's plan. It might be half baked but man is committed.

In the past decade of compromised democracy, our economy has become a consumer economy with short cut being to get loans substituting exports to get hard currency. Result is Bangladesh is exporting almost $50 billion and we are exporting paltry $20 billion. We need to produce more and export more. Until then, we will be in this perpetual debilitating state and exposed to compromises.

This answer will not be popular but did he ever have full control over the nations policies ?
25 % of your annual budget caters to defense becausr you want strategic depth and grab land.
You cannot trade with your big neighbour because of the establishment. Rather buy expensive stuff from others.
As a eg , jf17 costs 30 m usd . You have more than 100 of these parked gathering dust.
Thats 3000 m usd , 3 b usd. But this is never considered in your external debt calculations ?
You hv unnecessarily embarked on frantically increasing your nuke pile . Making and maintaining costs money.
You were kept afloat by 30 b usd in 10 years from usa and 5 b usd from uk. So never had to manage your own affairs.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

As usual, a stupid Indian response!

 

[lightoftruth]

When countries are moving towards AI,IOT,Blockchain,Industrial revolution 4.0
We have a country of over 200 million with water scarcity and limited arable land betting on poultry.lol

 

[Canuck786]

Former governments economic policies were GDP growth with external debt growth, along with fixed exchange rate, and no capital controls mechanism. This led to total disaster after 5 years. It was all expected by known economic science:
View attachment 524016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity


What policies of pmln? Like increasing external debt to 100 billion dollars?

Come on @Norwegian, external debt is gauged as percentage of total GDP. If your GDP grows from 200's to 300's billion, obviously the change is going to be big but since the Debt/GDP ratio didn't change significantly, it's all good. About 10 billion dollars of that debt was borrowed for the roads/motorways. If Imran Khan didn't suspend the payments on these projects, these would have been collecting tolls and repaying the loans from the generated income itself by now.

Secondly, I don't know which disaster you are talking about because during the last PMLN tenure all of the economic indicators were going upward and all the international organization were recognizing them year after year. Remember you can do propaganda to twist the facts but can never change them.

 

[Norwegian]

Azam Khan and his buffalo

Funny. We also have a powerful minister named Azam Swati, and he too has a few problems with stolen buffalos
https://www.dawn.com/news/amp/1442200

You were kept afloat by 30 b usd in 10 years from usa and 5 b usd from uk. So never had to manage your own affairs.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Exactly. Yet the opposition blames current government for the mess. When they were in power. They did nothing to fix and lived on borrowed money.

When countries are moving towards AI,IOT,Blockchain,Industrial revolution 4.0
We have a country of over 200 million with water scarcity and limited arable land betting on poultry.lol

What countries? If you are talking about India, then their past governments heavily invested in education and information technology. Unlike corrupt governments of revolving ppp and pmln.

Come on @Norwegian, external debt is gauged as percentage of total GDP. If your GDP grows from 200's to 300's billion, obviously the change is going to be big but since the Debt/GDP ratio didn't change significantly, it's all good. About 10 billion dollars of that debt was borrowed for the roads/motorways. If Imran Khan didn't suspend the payments on these projects, these would have been collecting tolls and repaying the loans from the generated income itself by now.

Secondly, I don't know which disaster you are talking about because during the last PMLN tenure all of the economic indicators were going upward and all the international organization were recognizing them year after year. Remember you can do propaganda to twist the facts but can never change them.

That's the problem with Patwaris. They are capable of focusing on one thing or two at a time, but never the whole picture. I shared a link above, did you read it? It says according to proven economic science: a country cannot pursue independent interest rate, free capital flow and a fixed exchange. That's what your favorite Ishaq Dollar did for the past 5 years. It looks great in the beginning on economic indicators. But in the end since economic fundamentals are disrupted, you get economic devastating, as we are witnessing.
Ishaq Dollar used borrowed money to keep RS price stable against the dollar. This led to depleting reserves, so much that after debt servicing (2 billion dollars a month), country was left with hardly anything for imports. That's why IK ran away to so money countries for aid. Had Ishaq Dollar let RS to float, we would not have been in this mess. But that runaway idiot messed up. And now ordinary people are paying the price.

 

[Canuck786]

..
What countries? If you are talking about India, then their past governments heavily invested in education and information technology. Unlike corrupt governments of revolving ppp and pmln..

Some other facts for you to consider..

Although the land mass of India is three times bigger than Pakistan, it has 121,407 kilometres of total rail track vs 7,791 kilometres for Pakistan a ratio of 15:1.

Simialarly, India has 5,603,293 kilometres of road network vs 264,401 kilometres for Pakistan at a ratio of 21:1

..That's the problem with Patwaris. They are capable of focusing on one thing or two at a time, but never the whole picture. I shared a link above, did you read it? It says according to proven economic science: a country cannot pursue independent interest rate, free capital flow and a fixed exchange. That's what your favorite Ishaq Dollar did for the past 5 years. It looks great in the beginning on economic indicators. But in the end since economic fundamentals are disrupted, you get economic devastating, as we are witnessing.
Ishaq Dollar used borrowed money to keep RS price stable against the dollar. This led to depleting reserves, so much that after debt servicing (2 billion dollars a month), country was left with hardly anything for imports. That's why IK ran away to so money countries for aid. Had Ishaq Dollar let RS to float, we would not have been in this mess. But that runaway idiot messed up. And now ordinary people are paying the price.

They left 16 Billion dollars as on May 31, 2018. The Interim government and the present government's incompetence to run such big enterprise is what is to blame and thus the hen, eggs and bulls my friend.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Are you mocking your country or are you mocking Imran khan?

There is a difference.

If there is a better solution, the people who are criticizing, should come forward and offer. Then there are those who did their turn and were only busy stealing money and doing politics for personal benefit.

I see a lot of making fun of this egg and beef thing from a very contemptuous and condescending view mostly held by educated Pakistanis who think their knowledge is superior and they have right to opine. This disgusting mentality is cornerstone of educated Pakistani class which does not even remotely relate to problems and everyday challenges faced by poor Pakistanis.

There is sincerity in Imran's plan. It might be half baked but man is committed.

In the past decade of compromised democracy, our economy has become a consumer economy with short cut being to get loans substituting exports to get hard currency. Result is Bangladesh is exporting almost $50 billion and we are exporting paltry $20 billion. We need to produce more and export more. Until then, we will be in this perpetual debilitating state and exposed to compromises.

Why I would mock my country ? We are debating about this hens vs eggs debate to fix economy . PTI has done no home work before coming in power. Our Politicians need to understand that economics is not a plaything and approached like some hobby or in an amateurish way. The government should engage professional economists to run the economy, otherwise there is a real danger things will go out of control. It is really unfortunate that even Bangladesh ( was behind us at one point) now runs its economy more professionally and systematically. At this rate, we will end up being the laggards of South Asia, unless we achieve a quick turnaround.

 

[The Accountant]

If Brazilian government can achieve all that in a few years with state sponsored capitalism, why not Pakistan? What's wrong with this nation laughing at its future?

Go ahead and do it . Who is stopping?

Bur seriously we have people here who consider this obligatory to defend and justify everything Imran say or do even if it make no sense

so then you should not mind when people post economic policy of PTI like this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1050203593461108738

Offcourse a patwari cant understand this ... he is leader of the country ... if he is planning to do something then he has to guide the nation towards the goal as well ... if you think that this is not beneficial then you should not engage in such trade ... why rediculing a person who is trying to lift common people of Pakistan out of poverty ... previous government cared nothing about the people except announcing schemes that can benefit thw workers to be paid for campaign ...

We need not to defned if people like who keeps on critisizing for the sake ceticisim ...

Didnt your noon league introduced taxi scheme and laptop scheme ... havent we seen to get the benefit you have to contact pmln officials and not the government ...

The issue with you guys are you are used to of getting special benefits out of government and now as level playing field is trying to be inteoduced for all Pakistan so people like u are resisting ... shame on u ...

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Offcourse a patwari cant understand this ... he is leader of the country ... if he is planning to do something then he has to guide the nation towards the goal as well ... if you think that this is not beneficial then you should not engage in such trade ... why rediculing a person who is trying to lift common people of Pakistan out of poverty ... previous government cared nothing about the people except announcing schemes that can benefit thw workers to be paid for campaign ...

We need not to defned if people like who keeps on critisizing for the sake ceticisim ...

Didnt your noon league introduced taxi scheme and laptop scheme ... havent we seen to get the benefit you have to contact pmln officials and not the government ...

The issue with you guys are you are used to of getting special benefits out of government and now as level playing field is trying to be inteoduced for all Pakistan so people like u are resisting ... shame on u ...

another poti talking non sense.. u slave find it fard to defend every move and bhongyaan of Ik ..right>

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068975683118997504

 

[Novice09]

Funny. We also have a powerful minister named Azam Swati, and he too has a few problems with stolen buffalos
https://www.dawn.com/news/amp/1442200

Our case is different... entire UP Police was pushed into the operation to FIND the STOLEN buffaloes... LIU, DIG, IG, SSPs... Think of a police officer's rank and it was involved in TRACING the buffaloes...

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/azam-khans-stolen-buffaloes-found-3-policemen-punished-549621


@Proudpakistaniguy
I have seen several people in India whose life has changed after Mudra Loans' scheme... I personally knows a tailor who was used to run his shop from a 6x4 feet shop... now he has three people who work with him and they have taken a shop on rent in a POSH area...
I know a guy who was used to work as a mechanic in local shop... got certified under "pradhan mantri kaushal vikas yojana" and now works at New Holland...

IMPLEMENTATION of policies is very important... I can tell you how corruption was rampant earlier in India... now at least it has decreased a little bit...