BD Government to seek Evidence from Pakistan and USA - War Crime 1971

[TopCat]

May I ask why you are still sending all your gallant officers to Pakistan for training since from 70’s? Also can you give me a single example from history where any army fought and succeeded in the circumstances in which Pakistan Army fought during 1970 to 1971?
You still have to ask India to wipe out only 45000 regular Pakistan Army troops, Most of the battalions were without heavy weaponry and only one squadron of aircrafts +hostile population.

Well I dont know the arrangement of training of BD army. They do take training in Bangladesh, Pakistan USA and other places. This is very customery and good practice to get to know other armys in the world. Even USA send officers in BD for training (very few though) does not make us any better than USA.
And I was not comparing the military strength of either side in 1971 rather I was mentioning the professionalism they shown at that time. Deserting their own soldiers by the officers, what I should say....

 

[dabong1]

That's why they live there, not here.
For 8 thousand Pakistani soldiers in all front, 3 million Bengalis were massacred. I dont know how you are comparing...!

The "3 million figure" is false.

My uncle was a civilian officer in Pakistan armed forces' finance deparment working in either Karachi or Peshawar in 71. They had a days old child and had to secretly migrate to first India then Bangladesh in a cargo truck with other Bengali officers because THERE WAS RETRIBUTION. The whole path, my aunt had to press her hand firmly on my cousins' mouth so that it would not cry!

Very sad......but can you tell me why a large number of bengali's stayed in pakistan after the war,why where they not sent back to bangladesh like the bengalis did to the pakistanis.

 

[TopCat]

Well what about all the Mukti Munafiks who raped and killed Bihari and West Pakistani Women and Children?
I have never heard of any voice been raised by nationalist Bengalis against the atrocities committed by Mukti force against the Behari people.
And what about the unislamic activities of Mukti force, or all of them were saints.
When you say “Al-Zakir shines Pakistan with unbelievable oiling” to me, are you doing any good to strengthen relationship between Pak and Bad.
I think between the lines you are giving the message that BD people hates Pak like nothing, if it is so then I think people like Al-Zakir are the real hope as they still believe in the Islamic brotherhood which Momen’s like you can never understand.
You also seem to have many concerns about this forum, then why you are posting your comments here?
I think it is very difficult for a Good Muslim like you to swallow the fact that there are still many Bengalis who are not coherent with the ideology of Awami Leauge and still love Pakistan, yes Pakistan I say.

There are claims that autrocities and rape committed toward Biharis and W. Pakistanis. Well if there were cases then the victims needs to come out and say it. It has to come from victims not from somebody who just imagined things. Also for the 9 mos of war they were under the protection of Pakistan Army, so responsibility again goes back to Pakistan army.
After 16 Dec all Biharis/W.Pakis gone under UN supervision and had protection accordingly.
Being said that, I cant say there were no sporadic killing at the time of war and the emotion was high among the Muktis and general public.

If somebody Loves Pakistan there is nothing wrong with that as they have right to do so in a democracy as long as they dont raise arms against any civilians who oppose to them.

Thanks

 

[TopCat]

Very sad......but can you tell me why a large number of bengali's stayed in pakistan after the war,why where they not sent back to bangladesh like the bengalis did to the pakistanis.

Bangladesh did not send anybody back to Pakistan. Those who chose to remain here they stayed, some wanted to go back even after offered citizenship of Bangladesh but Pakistan did not take them back and eventually they were given citizenship and they are all good now.

 

[Al-zakir]

Why? Pakistan defense forum does not allow the truth? it allows only the ones who blindly polishes pakistan? al zakir is trying to cool things up?? He is calling whomsoever mushrik and stuff just by reading harmless post, that does not catch ur eyes... but i did not say single time razakar is something this and that; and u have asserted i have big problem with razakar?

Have you lost your courage to interact with me straight up? Why are you using third person to talk behind me? There is Arabic word to describe such behavior but I will spare you this time.
So are you telling me that out of all Bangladeshi Muslim and its armed force, you are the only one with soul truth and everyone else is brain less to comprehend the war analogy and related party. Was the war only between two wings of Pakistan or there was another major player in between? Yes I could have blindly supported you by blaming all blame to west pak and its army but the reality is Bd army stuck with them like a magnet. So what is actually the truth or may be bd army knows or realized something that your brain isn't spread enough to comprehend as you are too heavily dosed with Bengali nationalistic virus.

As a Muslim brother,let me tell you something, it might sound as sweet as honey, when Al Zakir shines Pakistanis with his unblievable oiling, but he is no where near the reality that exists among the Bangladeshis.

So now you trying to paint me as some kind of "makkan baz" by actually "Makkan bazi". Nice! you are trying to discredit my view regarding 71 debacle and my neutral approach as if 150 mill Bangladeshi share your wise anti Pakistani view. What is your interest to come to this forum to spread hate venom against Pakistani behalf of all Bangladeshi when some us trying to improve our brotherly relation? How many Bangladeshi have you talk out 150 mill that actually hate Pakistani except die hard Bengali nationalist groups? Have you watch a Pak vs India cricket match lately and see who actually Bangladeshi support? You would be disappoint and surprised at the same time.

There is a concept called "Muslim Ummah". You may have heard it but wish not to practice it which is your discretion to decide. You are welcome to live with your Bengalism and no one will bother you but don't come to this forum and try to create some mistrust between Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim. It has been strongly encouraged by Nabi karim (SWA), Kholafa-e-Rashedin, Shaba Akram and all Islamic scholars form all background. It's also came to hadis that when a non-Muslim convert than he encourage to go and meet his fellow Muslim brothers.
So Since my arrival to this forum I have always been advocated Islamic brotherhood under any possible circumstances and most of the members here aware of my views. I don't need to oil any Pakistani to be liked because I am a Muslim first and Bangladeshi second so therefor I joint this forum to clear up some confusion with best my ability and strengthen our brotherly relation further that already exist Mash'Allah..........

 

[gromell]

If I wanted to talk on your back, I would not post it on the thread. Anyone with internet access can read my post. How are they then backbiting? I answered someone's comments and question staying on the context.

Islamic brotherhood did not, can not and shall not come on the expense of Munafik killing & raping Muslims and then forgiving those criminals. Full stop

 

[gromell]

Do you know Nabi Karim (sallallahu alahi wasallam) directed death by stoning to the rapist who raped Muslim women? and he(peace be upon him) did not defend the rapist even if they were misguided Muslims?

 

[sob]

Then how about a truth and reconciliation tribunal along the lines of South Africa?

This was a very difficult phase for BD and as suggested above what the people of BD require is a Truth and Reconciliation Tribunal along he lines of SA.

In SA the native population had to suffer untold hardships, yet the Blacks( Mods: I hope that this is an acceptable word) and the whites have now come together and are building a new resurgent South Africa which is a model for the entire African Continent.

If we keep on sweeping it under the carpet the wounds will only fester. This has to be brought about in a civilised way and not looked at it in a narrow prism of Islamic Brotherhood.

I am sure that mistakes have been committed from all the sides, but we need to accept it, acknowledge it and move forward.

 

[salman nedian]

That's why they live there, not here.



For 8 thousand Pakistani soldiers in all front, 3 million Bengalis were massacred. I dont know how you are comparing...

My uncle was a civilian officer in Pakistan armed forces' finance deparment working in either Karachi or Peshawar in 71. They had a days old child and had to secretly migrate to first India then Bangladesh in a cargo truck with other Bengali officers because THERE WAS RETRIBUTION. The whole path, my aunt had to press her hand firmly on my cousins' mouth so that it would not cry!

There was no revenge on our part. We did not kill Bengalis here. Even biased western and Indian media cannot show evidence of killings of east Pakistanis here. We forgave what Mukti bahini did to people. You want justice, think about all those also who went there to work and martyred, think about all those people who invested there and all of their assets were looted by the looter Indian army and mukti bahini.

3 million people were not killed, not possible. Even your own countrymen deny this false claim. What I can only say that use your brain and do not speak the language of others. Let me clear this that if you keep on repeating the same trial story that would be disastrous for the whole sub-continent. Do not force Pakistan for any thing wrong. We want reconciliation and brotherly relations once again and you have to choose either Pakistan or India.

I remember one Hadith and I don’t remember the exact words but the context of that Hadith is that ‘a time will come when Muslims will kill Muslims and the killer and the killed one both will go to hell’ one of the companions of Rasolullah(SAW) asked ‘how is it possible?’ and he replied ‘because both of them wanted to kill each other hence they both had bad intensions towards his brother’. I think that describes best the situation of East Pakistan in 1971.

 

[gromell]

There was no revenge on our part. We did not kill Bengalis here. Even biased western and Indian media cannot show evidence of killings of east Pakistanis here. We forgave what Mukti bahini did to people. You want justice, think about all those also who went there to work and martyred, think about all those people who invested there and all of their assets were looted by the looter Indian army and mukti bahini.

3 million people were not killed, not possible. Even your own countrymen deny this false claim. What I can only say that use your brain and do not speak the language of others. Let me clear this that if you keep on repeating the same trial story that would be disastrous for the whole sub-continent. Do not force Pakistan for any thing wrong. We want reconciliation and brotherly relations once again and you have to choose either Pakistan or India.

I remember one Hadith and I don’t remember the exact words but the context of that Hadith is that ‘a time will come when Muslims will kill Muslims and the killer and the killed one both will go to hell’ one of the companions of Rasolullah(SAW) asked ‘how is it possible?’ and he replied ‘because both of them wanted to kill each other hence they both had bad intensions towards his brother’. I think that describes best the situation of East Pakistan in 1971.

There was racial discrimination all along.

Who asked for forgiveness for what Mukti Bahini did?

if you don't remember a hadith word by word then you should not quote it and use it in the wrong context. that's a big big sin. In 71 Pakistan killed Bengalis and then we fought according to the laws of Islam to free ourselves. few criminals are among every nation. But Pakitan army's objective from 25th March to 16th december is a crime itself, if you refer to Islamic justice.

 

[salman nedian]

There was racial discrimination all along.

Who asked for forgiveness for what Mukti Bahini did?

if you don't remember a hadith word by word then you should not quote it and use it in the wrong context. that's a big big sin. In 71 Pakistan killed Bengalis and then we fought according to the laws of Islam to free ourselves. few criminals are among every nation. But Pakitan army's objective from 25th March to 16th december is a crime itself, if you refer to Islamic justice.

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said, ‘When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.’ Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA) said, ‘O Allah’s Prophet! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?’ Rasulullah(SAW) replied, “He surely had the intention to kill his companion.”

Hopefully this will satisfy you.

 

[gromell]

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said, ‘When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.’ Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA) said, ‘O Allah’s Prophet! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?’ Rasulullah(SAW) replied, “He surely had the intention to kill his companion.”

Hopefully this will satisfy you.

Good thank you.

But this does not apply in '71 context. I don't think Mohammad(Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) ever advised Muslims to do nothing if other misguided Muslim kill them and rape their women.

 

[salman nedian]

Good thank you.

But this does not apply in '71 context. I don't think Mohammad(Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) ever advised Muslims to do nothing if other misguided Muslim kill them and rape their women.

He also never advised to kill the innocent people as muktis also did that.Racial discrimination (according to you) is not a justification to invite enemy to attack Islamic land.

 

[gromell]

He also never advised to kill the innocent people as muktis also did that.Racial discrimination (according to you) is not a justification to invite enemy to attack Islamic land.

Islamic land? brother, I think you actually know, what happened in Pakistan in 47-71 was anything but islam. Do you listen to songs? surely there are pakistanis even in this thread who are fan of music. Because of someone's influence I nowadays avoid music. But the point is at the time of Ayub Khan or before him, Rabindrasangeet was banned in Pakistan Radio(Pakisan radio means also radio in East Pakistan). While Pakistanis could not restrain from music, what was the meaning of banning the most celebrated piece of musical art of the Bengalis?!! We were not only racially discriminated but treated like 2nd class citizen of Pakistan, just like Muslims were treated in pre-47 British India. Those are facts drawn from correct history, not mere speculation or wild imagination to blame someone.

 

[salman nedian]

Islamic land? brother, I think you actually know, what happened in Pakistan in 47-71 was anything but islam. Do you listen to songs? surely there are pakistanis even in this thread who are fan of music. Because of someone's influence I nowadays avoid music. But the point is at the time of Ayub Khan or before him, Rabindrasangeet was banned in Pakistan Radio(Pakisan radio means also radio in East Pakistan). While Pakistanis could not restrain from music, what was the meaning of banning the most celebrated piece of music art of the Bengalis?!! We were not only racially discriminated but treated like 2nd class citizen of Pakistan, just like Muslims were treated in pre-47 British India. Those are facts drawn from correct history, not mere speculation or wild imagination to blame someone.

Doesn’t provide justification to invite enemy in your country.