BD Government to seek Evidence from Pakistan and USA - War Crime 1971

[gromell]

Bangladesh was the brain child of india long before the bengalis even came up with the idea of independence, funded with extensive amounts of money a known fact to the pakistani military intelligence at the time. The idea or thought that the west pakistanis were racist or over looked bengalis was absolutely absurd, a little racist problems exist in every society take pakistan today, the pujabis will mock the pathans, the balochis the sindhis and vice versa, yet when somebody looks at pakistan these very people will unite and kick as..
I don,t disagree with you about the engineers story, but these sorts of problems are prevalent in every society.
Also I believe the numbers quoted on how many perished is absolutely rubbish.
One Tabloid had it at 3 million.
Imagine that, Hitler killed 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs and other races, this required many years, a large setup (gas chambers etc) while fighting the allies and also with the entire world knowing. Pakistan is claimed to have done it over 12 months. Rubbish!
All we ever here is statements from people who were their but no concrete proof of mass graves etc.
During 71, mukhti fighters were surrounding villages that had no form of communication access to the outside world and were raping and murdering bengali women and torching entire villages dressed in military gear. A tactic they learnt from the vietnamese who worked with the yanks and blamed it on the vietcong. Many people who identified mukhti fighters as the perpertrators were called traitors and shut up. Mukhti were also known to be active in universities and would encourage their members to dress in militaria and assault students, teachers and other people. Mukhti were also able to side with the police due to large bribes.
Another thing why do your politicians bring up 71 when they cannot meet the promises they made prior to election.

you are floating on the clouds of your wild imagination. I know mukti bahini soldier, he did not rape any woman, he was ready to sacrifice himself to protect his sisters' honour from pakistan army's brutality. I know mukti bahini soldiers who are so religious and mukti bahini was made up with East Bengal regiment and East pakistan rifles rebels along with normal public. the fact is known by the Bengalis in Bangladesh. you are either a Pakistani or a brit living in England. How would you know the facts?? I know a pathan whose whole family and frnds were in west paistan and he helped mukti bahini in 71 by supplying medicine and information. his brother who is a police officer in Pakistan right now threatened him when he wanted to go back to pakistan to see his dying mother, just cause he helped muktibahini in 71. He tells a reporter why he chose to join mukti bahini in 71 when his whole family was pakistani pathan. he answers as a Muslim, he could not stand the brutality that Pakistan Army carried out in the Dhaka, which he saw with his own eyes. I can send you the clip if you want. it's in youtube too. there is a thread where "straigth" uploaded original mukti bahini soldiers' letters to their mothers. read them. They don't sound like the false evil picture you are trying to draw in our head.

you give americans' examples in vietnam?? well that actually applies to 71. mukti bahini was fighting for bangladesh and vietcong was fighting for vietnam. both americans raped vietnamese women in vietnam and pakistan army raped women in bangladesh. as simple as that. truth is truth whether or not someone like you accept it.

Indians in 71 fed our 10 million refugees while pakistan raped 200,000 and killed 3 million of their own. Truth sometimes hurts.

 

[gromell]

Sunday, April 12, 2009

Govt may move to bring back fugitive war criminals​

Diplomatic efforts to be made for this, says foreign minister
Staff Correspondent

Foreign Minister Dipu Moni yesterday said if necessary the government will take initiatives to have fugitive war criminals of 1971 extradited from foreign countries.

She also said that her government wants to label Bangladesh as 'a secular country with a Muslim majority', rather than as 'a moderate Muslim country'.

She made the comments at a seminar on "Bangladesh's foreign policy and foreign relations: priorities, challenges and opportunities" at Bangladesh Enterprise Institute with its president, ex-ambassador also former foreign secretary Farooq Sobhan, in the chair.

Replying to a query, the foreign minister said diplomatic efforts are on to have the liberation war criminals extradited and 'if necessary the government will take appropriate initiatives regarding the matter'.

"I hope no civilised nation in the world will stand in favour of the war criminals," Dipu Moni, the first ever female foreign minister of the country added.

She also said her government will ensure international standards in maintaining the due process involving the United Nations in trying the war criminals.

Dipu Moni said her ministry will take initiatives to collect from foreign countries evidence of war crimes committed in Bangladesh during the 1971 liberation war.

In response to a query about whether Bangladesh is a moderate Muslim country, Dipu Moni said, "We are a secular country with a Muslim majority and this is our identity, our country is born with this identity and I don't think there is any reason to disown this identity."

"At present many persons label different countries with different names. But it doesn't mean that we should accept those," she added.

"There is no reason to accept those labels, if they don't match our culture and heritage," she said.

When her attention was drawn to Friday's 'crossfire' in the capital by Rapid Action Battalion, Dipu Moni replied, "The matter will be investigated."

"Our government hasn't shifted from its position of upholding human rights, we will investigate the matter," she said.

Replying to a question regarding whether arrested British citizen Faisal Mostafa will be allowed access to consular facilities, the foreign minister said, "We will look into the matter in light of the law."

She stressed the need for regional integrated approach and regional connectivity for the betterment of the entire region.

Former ambassadors gathered at the seminar stressed that Bangladesh needs a proactive and dynamic foreign policy to meet the critical challenges thrown by the current global economic recession, for facing the adverse impacts of climate change and terrorism, to attract more investment, and to expand export.

Some former ambassadors stressed the need for restructuring the foreign ministry and Bangladesh's foreign missions giving the top priority to the country's interest.

Former ambassador Ashfaqur Rahman said Bangladesh has 'only foreign relations but no foreign policy'. He therefore suggested that a task force be commissioned to frame an effective foreign policy.

Dipu Moni agreed with a suggestion that the parliament should have discussions on the country's foreign policy.

She said Bangladesh will pursue 'look east' policy strengthening relations with China, Japan, and Asean countries as well as relations with Muslim countries.

Asked whether there is any change in the new government's foreign policy, she said the government will not discontinue the past foreign policy just because it was framed by past governments or other parties.

"Whatever is necessary and important for the country must be pursued," she said.

Asked whether the government will pursue a policy of engagement and force in tackling terrorism, the foreign minister replied, the government prefers intense engagement through bringing changes in the education system to tackle the menace of terrorism rather than applying force.

She however noted 'the government will not hesitate to apply force, if needed'.

Ambassadors and high commissioners and other representatives of the US, European Commission, Australia, Sri Lanka, Norway, Turkey, China, Switzerland, and Iran were present among other diplomats.

Former Bangladesh ambassadors Barrister Harun ur Rashid, Zia Shams, QAMA Rahim, SM Rashid Ahmed, Shabbir Ahmed, Anwarul Chowdhury, Mahbub Alam, Mubin Chowdhury, and Shahid Akhtar, and Bangladesh Institute of International and Strategic Studies (BIISS) Director General Maj Gen Sheikh Mohammad Moniruzzaman also spoke among others.
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[gromell]

Bangladesh was the brain child of india long before the bengalis even came up with the idea of independence, funded with extensive amounts of money a known fact to the pakistani military intelligence at the time. The idea or thought that the west pakistanis were racist or over looked bengalis was absolutely absurd, a little racist problems exist in every society take pakistan today, the pujabis will mock the pathans, the balochis the sindhis and vice versa, yet when somebody looks at pakistan these very people will unite and kick as..
I don,t disagree with you about the engineers story, but these sorts of problems are prevalent in every society.
Also I believe the numbers quoted on how many perished is absolutely rubbish.
One Tabloid had it at 3 million.
Imagine that, Hitler killed 6 million jews, gypsies, slavs and other races, this required many years, a large setup (gas chambers etc) while fighting the allies and also with the entire world knowing. Pakistan is claimed to have done it over 12 months. Rubbish!
All we ever here is statements from people who were their but no concrete proof of mass graves etc.
During 71, mukhti fighters were surrounding villages that had no form of communication access to the outside world and were raping and murdering bengali women and torching entire villages dressed in military gear. A tactic they learnt from the vietnamese who worked with the yanks and blamed it on the vietcong. Many people who identified mukhti fighters as the perpertrators were called traitors and shut up. Mukhti were also known to be active in universities and would encourage their members to dress in militaria and assault students, teachers and other people. Mukhti were also able to side with the police due to large bribes.
Another thing why do your politicians bring up 71 when they cannot meet the promises they made prior to election.

Mukti bahini assaulted university profs and students?!! you are so out of your mind. Go check Pakistan govt's documents and Pakistan army's papers. go search about "Operation Searchlight". Known Pakistani army officers with their tanks and infantry went on killing on 25th of March. thre are so many eyewitness accounts that you'd be overwhelmed. I do not know why I am arguing with someone like you who I am sure have not done any research on the matter at all, as evident from your absurd words, but you should do some justice to your user-name by abiding by the Quran and not making things up in your head and preaching them in an aimless manner. your aim is to dignify Pakistan's role in 71, even if it takes you to dilute the truth with absolute false allegations.

Bangladesh always had a large population in a very small area and it's very easy to go on rampage one night with tanks and kill a hundred thousand, which is exactly what happened on 25th of March night.

there is no concrete proof of mass grave in bangladesh from 71??! I don't know should I cry or laugh! I just realized there is no point of debating with you. But i hope i'm wrong in my last line and would appreciate if you try to understand something from my posts. thank you.

 

[Al-zakir]

I know mukti bahini soldier, he did not rape any woman, he was ready to sacrifice himself to protect his sisters' honour from pakistan army's brutality. I know mukti bahini soldiers who are so religious and mukti bahini was made up with East Bengal regiment and East pakistan rifles rebels along with normal public. the fact is known by the Bengalis in Bangladesh.

Yes you are right that many of the Mukti's are true Islamic and will die for Islam and justices with smile in the face yet you can not denied the fact there are many mukti who initially got trained from Indian inspired by "Joy bangla joy bongobondu' instead of "Narre-Takbir" and "Allahu-Akbar" are real musrik and true enemy of Islam. They were traitor than and still traitor now as they refused to build Islamic Bangladesh. Those "Joy bangla joy bongobondu" musrik mukti are the real culprits that were responsible for defused the war between west and east pak Muslims. So spare me from some misery and I will appreciate if you do not try to measure all mukti as same element.

You mention about "straight". He is a true Islamic Mukti who may have fought for justices under unavoidable circumstances brought upon by those Musrik "joy Bangla joy Bongobondu" mukti and not so called secular Hindu Bengali cultured Bangladesh.

Indians in 71 fed our 1 million refugees while pakistan raped 200,000 and killed 3 million of their own. Truth sometimes hurts.

Get this fact in your head that Indian didn't helped us to helped us. It was india's interest to break united pakistan and wanted to drew a scar in Muslim brotherhood. It also wanted to humiliate Muslim that ruled Hindu India for thousand years. It has accomplished a super goal with the help from traitors in both side of united Pakistan and which was biggest slap to Muslim in the history of Islamic world.

There were crime took placed from both sides but these number logically not possible. I am also from Bd and in my region there aren't any mass grave or mass rapes took place. I even know the fact that there were camps around our villages but no one died or raped. so I guess either Allah helped us or pak force spared us for some unexplained reason.

There were many west Pakistani and Bihari origin Urdu speaking Muslim civilian died and raped in the hand of "Joy bangla joy bongobondu" kind of mukti in the process too so while we at it let us also asked justices for our west Pakistani innocent civilian Muslim too. let us proved that justices should be equally serve to all or should we just forget about them?

A shameful act that should have been forgotten 30 years ago. A scar in our glorious past that not even worth to mention. May Allah put some mercy in our heart and let his blessing help us to heal the unwanted painful event. Ameen!!!!!!!!!

 

[gromell]

ameen.

Surely India did not help us without having their own objective, not as if they were all mother teresa! They had their strategic reason and there's nothing wrong with it. Every country in this world would do what India had done. The problem is we, Muslims let them succeed in breaking brotherhood by first breaking it ourselves. and if we go by logic, not emotion then the blame is on the west pakistanis, not awami league. Pakistanis let Awami league go all the way upto independence movement. and this did not happen in a day. 24 years of repression. Yes there was repression, often of colonialistic and imperialistic volume. Islam was not respected and followed. Crowds will always go by emotion. Leaders should not. and it was not Sheikh Mujib who was the first to act emotionally. West Pakistanis simply were not ready to be ruled by a populist Bengali leader. So were not we also. Sadly, both their mentality and our mentality are no islamic enough, going by the mass public. To establish Islamic country you need proper Muslim leaders and followers. There was no lack of shortage of them on both sides. My point is if we have had done wrong, then as Muslims we should have the courage and honesty to admit it. What is the point of blaming others for this, when we know, deep in our heart, it was lack of Islamic justice (on west pakistani side) that led to unimaginable destruction on Muslims by Muslims?!

 

[gromell]

and that's true, I know someone whose village did not have any army camp. surely there were officers, few from the whole lot probably, who did not commit atrocities on civilians. But most of them did. Even the Pakistani generals have allegations againt each other on orders of rampage on civilian area. One of my very close family member, who was 12 years old then, had to run non-stop all the way from one village to another when Pakistan Army (not Mukti bahini) open fired on the crowd in a local bazar. He still remembers it vividly and it was Allah's rahmat that he did not receive any bullet but surely there were innocent victims.

a government officer, collegue of my another relative was hindu. He literally circumcised in fear of Pakistan army's brutal and shameless technique to identify Muslims and Hindus. Look at the picture below(i cant get the better quality pic right now sorry) He also memorised the basic kalima and memorised fatiha. he did not convert! and i don't think he was presented with the real image of islam by the pakistani army's fear tactics. This is not how we Muslims suppose to preach our true religion!!!

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Within 6 months Bangladeshis will be sick and tired of these war crimes trials and realize that it is merely a distractions form AL crimes and especially their complicity in the Pilkhana massacres. The public will then want retribution against the AL criminals. That many of the crimes committed during 1971 were also perpetrated by Indian soldiers and their proxies (Mujib Bahini) will also come to light and we will have them included in these war crimes cases.

 

[gromell]

Within 6 months Bangladeshis will be sick and tired of these war crimes trials and realize that it is merely a distractions form AL crimes and especially their complicity in the Pilkhana massacres. The public will then want retribution against the AL criminals. That many of the crimes committed during 1971 were also perpetrated by Indian soldiers and their proxies (Mujib Bahini) will also come to light and we will have them included in these war crimes cases.

Actually, the Pilkhana massacre, I think, might have been carried by certain people to distract this war crime trial. If you see, just around a week or two before the Philkhana massacre, Pakistan's envoy, Mr Ispahani came to Bangladesh to indirectly make Bangladesh stop this trial. He left and then a week later we have this sad incident. Reminds one of Bhutto leaving on 25th of March morning and ...

Bangladeshis have already become sick and tired of not trying the war criminals for 38 years. We are now going to do that inshAllah. may Allah guide us in the proper path.

 

[gromell]

Al Zakir actually posted this on another thread.
Pakistan point of view on war crime trial : It’s not the right time
by priyo.com | February 17, 2009 - 12:24am
Pakistan President's Special Envoy Zia Ispahani said here yesterday that this is not the right moment to take up the issue of holding trial of the 1971 war criminals as there are so many other issues where Pakistan likes to cooperate with Bangladesh.

"We should not go into this issue at the moment. Because, there are so many other issues we like to cooperate with Bangladesh. I think we should move forward," he said responding to a question after his meeting with Foreign Minister Dr Dipu Moni at the Foreign Ministry.

A correspondent wanted to know Pak position as the present government of Bangladesh has election pledge to hold the trial of the war criminals and some 215 Pakistani army-men were charged with the war crimes. "I don't give any comment on it," the envoy said when asked whether they support the holding of the trial of those who committed heinous crimes during the war of liberation from the Pakistani rule.

Asked whether the issue came up for discussion on Monday, he said, "We've not discussed this issue."

Asked about Pakistan's apology for atrocities on innocent Bangladeshis during the Bangladesh Liberation War, Ispahani said, "I think we have already apologized. Former President Gen Musharraf came here, went to the Memorial and apologized. I think our Prime Minister has also done the same."

On Bangladesh's proposal for forming joint anti-terrorism taskforce in South Asia, he appreciated the proposal as a "good idea" as he said Pakistan is suffering from terrorist attacks. And "it's a very serious problem we're facing".

He said since the idea is very new, "we'll have to work together. We' ll have to meet with relevant people and we hope to move it forward."

Ispahani, who came yesterday to congratulate the new government of Bangladesh as the Special Envoy from Islamabad, said Pakistan wants to improve relations with Bangladesh as "we've now democratically elected governments in Pakistan and Bangladesh." The Pak emissary said the Pakistan President and the Prime Minister are keen to improve the relations and happy to work together.

Asked about the Indian accusation of Pakistan for Mumbai terror attacks, Ispahani said, "I don't know whether we have been made accused. We're saying to give us more evidence. At the moment the process is still going on, and they have not come to any conclusion."

 

[Patriot]

This is only going to affect people who live in Bangladesh so not sure why Pakistan would be effected by it and if you think you can extract any person from Pakistan well then you live in your own little world.

 

[gromell]

This is only going to affect people who live in Bangladesh so not sure why Pakistan would be effected by it and if you think you can extract any person from Pakistan well then you live in your own little world.

The first phase objective is to try the Bengali collaborators who worked with Pakistan Army in the massacre and rapes, not necessarily the Pakistani personnel in first leap. We believe if we can not try our own people who were involved, then we should not ask for Pakistani military criminals to be punished. That will happen inshAllah but after we try our own. Nothing is impossible if Allah wants.

 

[gromell]

we ever here is statements from people who were their but no concrete proof of mass graves etc.

some pictures taken by Christian Simonpietri...

 

[gromell]

few more pictures taken by Christian Simonpietri.... VIEWER DISCRETION IS STRONGLY ADVISED

 

[gromell]

The severed head of the Pakistan Army officer above was the work of erstwhile East Pakistan Rifles soldiers, our very own BDR! They have not changed much lol. For good or bad, they are probably the most brutal and effective killing machine in South Asia. They have successfully killed Pakistan Army personnel in '71, Indian BSF in border clash and very unfortunately ...

 

[Al-zakir]

and that's true, I know someone whose village did not have any army camp. surely there were officers, few from the whole lot probably, who did not commit atrocities on civilians. But most of them did. Even the Pakistani generals have allegations againt each other on orders of rampage on civilian area. One of my very close family member, who was 12 years old then, had to run non-stop all the way from one village to another when Pakistan Army (not Mukti bahini) open fired on the crowd in a local bazar. He still remembers it vividly and it was Allah's rahmat that he did not receive any bullet but surely there were innocent victims.

a government officer, collegue of my another relative was hindu. He literally circumcised in fear of Pakistan army's brutal and shameless technique to identify Muslims and Hindus. Look at the picture below(i cant get the better quality pic right now sorry) He also memorised the basic kalima and memorised fatiha. he did not convert! and i don't think he was presented with the real image of islam by the pakistani army's fear tactics. This is not how we Muslims suppose to preach our true religion!!!

The world isn't black and white as you imagine and the reality of the then situation was more complicated and full of propaganda than you can comprehend. 80 some % villages in Bd didn't have road links during Pakistan. Most of villages were isolated from Dhaka and other main cities. Small boat were main source of communication. Pak solders mainly used vehicle rather than boat. They mainly roam around big cities that had road links as they weren't much familiar with East pakistan terrain. East pak border was left open because they weren't much solders available to safe gourd the enormous border area that we share with India. Indian solders knew more about east pak terrain and territory than West pak. It wasn't rocket science to counter fit Pak army uniform by Indian and Mujib bahini to killed and raped in the name of Pak force.

If pak army was demon, rapist and blood thirsty killer(your view) than, then I assume they still have the same character yet Bd army( I assume they are angle) work and cooperate very closely with Pakistani force than any other force that I know of. Not even with Indian force that actually helped us(your view) during separation. So try to think little harder and answer following questions before get over emotion.

What is our pressure to send our solders to Pakistan to train(free train program for Bd solder only) and Vice-versa ( we charged them to use our facility)?

Why accept military aid time to time from Pakistan army(your view)?

Who put a gun to Bd army to build joint ships and tank with Pakistani army?

Why buy most of the military equipment form a evil (your view) army?

Why have diplomatic relations with same evil(your view) Pakistan until this war criminal issue resolve?

Why accept donation and technical assistant from same evil (your view) Pakistan during crisis?

P.S: I think we should use the concept of forgive and forget approach (crime committed from both end more or less) and move toward future with greater cooperation. You can't have your cake and eat it too.