Basha and Mohmand Dams should be build only by Pakistani Companies

[FuturePAF]

With all the frenzy to raise the money for the dams, a thought occurred to be. We are under no obligation to pick a Chinese company when build either of these dams.

This post is not to disparage the Chinese people or China, and I appreciate the willingness of China to loan Pakistan the money to build up Pakistan's infrastructure, but our local industries and labor force needs the boost these two dams would provide.

Even if the Chinese companies can build the dam at a cheaper cost, the national efforts these dams have now taken on, sourcing the construction to any company other than a Pakistani one will not be harmonious.

I understand CPEC projects are made from CPEC loan money, and if this dam was made with some CPEC money, then that amount of the work share should be done by Chinese contractors and Chinese laborers, but we are unify the country behind this. We are trying to form a more harmonious society.

I would like to know the views on this idea from our Pakistani and Chinese members on here. Do you find any fault in this logic?

 

[American Pakistani]

I agree, not only that but most of the projects/contracts that Pakistani construction companies are capable of undertaking should be awarded to them. Foreign entities should be second and only utilized if Pakistan doesn't have any group that have experience or capability, and still then Pakistani workers should be part of those projects given to foreign companies.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

With all the frenzy to raise the money for the dams, a thought occurred to be. We are under no obligation to pick a Chinese company when build either of these dams.

This post is not to disparage the Chinese people or China, and I appreciate the willingness of China to loan Pakistan the money to build up Pakistan's infrastructure, but our local industries and labor force needs the boost these two dams would provide.

Even if the Chinese companies can build the dam at a cheaper cost, the national efforts these dams have now taken on, sourcing the construction to any company other than a Pakistani one will not be harmonious.

I understand CPEC projects are made from CPEC loan money, and if this dam was made with some CPEC money, then that amount of the work share should be done by Chinese contractors and Chinese laborers, but we are unify the country behind this. We are trying to form a more harmonious society.

I would like to know the views on this idea from our Pakistani and Chinese members on here. Do you find any fault in this logic?

Have you seen bridges built by Pakistani companies? Have you seen roads built by Pakistani companies. Have you seen cars built by Pakistani companies. Poor design and shoddy workmanship. Then compare to Chinese built roads and bridges. Are you sure you want a dam built by Pakistani company? The best idea is have foreign project management cand consultant engineers. Then by all means sub-contract the work to local companies.

 

[FuturePAF]

Have you seen bridges built by Pakistani companies? Have you seen roads built by Pakistani companies. Have you seen cars built by Pakistani companies. Poor design and shoddy workmanship. Then compare to Chinese built roads and bridges. Are you sure you want a dam built by Pakistani company? The best idea is have foreign project management cand consultant engineers. Then by all means sub-contract the work to local companies.

Get the foreign experts and managers if ours are not up to the standard. But the manual labor, and sourcing the raw materials should be local if the money is local. That was my point. I agree with your sentiments.

 

[AZ1]

Dont get blown away by sentiments. Its a one time build so better build by professionals who can get the job done rather than delay it or make it weak.

 

[FuturePAF]

Dont get blown away by sentiments. Its a one time build so better build by professionals who can get the job done rather than delay it or make it weak.

Not blown away by sentiment, just trying the express the thought with all due respect to our Chinese friends.
I totally agree it should be designed and executed by the best experts in the field, but a lot of the manual work should be locals, and then open to Pakistanis from the rest of the country. Also sub-contracting raw materials to local companies will circulate the money in our economy. Even management of the sub-contractors should be done by experts, so as to manage waste and abuse. I still believe the spirit of my point still stands.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Get the foreign experts and managers if ours are not up to the standard. But the manual labor, and sourcing the raw materials should be local if the money is local. That was my point. I agree with your sentiments.

To be honest it's not like we don't have the experts or managers. Our problem as a people and nation is we cut corners. We find the easy way out. Even I who has had minimal exposure to Pakistan are effected by this. Last year I had a German friend visit me who is a carpenter. While he was here [UK] he offered to do my garden fence and gate. We went to buy the wood. I swear this guy refused to do the work unless his choice of wood was bought. His choice was like 50% more expensive and had special treatment with 20 year guarantee. Then when he did the work he insisted on using these special bolt things for the stone whereas I was okay with screws. The guy spent 5 days and I swear he kept having disagreements with me over how it was done. At one point the slats ran out. I suggested that he spsce them out 10 cm more and then the job could get done. Again he refused,. The gate consumed enough twice more wood then I would have agreed with. The darned thing weighed a ton. When job was done he was like big smile and look of satisfaction as if it was his house. This guy was only in UK for three weeks and he would be gone back to Germany. But oh no pride in his work would not be compromised. When a friend came and had chat with him he found out back in Germany he did roofs as well. He took him to a house he was renovating. When he was offered the job the German refused because he said the roof tiles were not appropriate to the house. My friend had bought this composite artifical tiles. The German would not have it. He declined to do the work unless the proper traditional Welsh slate tiles were bought. My friend actually called the German 'mad'.

But then that this was German culture at play. No wonder their cars, engineering, their cities are remarkable. and by the way the fence he built everybody actually says it is fantastic and looks like it will be around for another 100 years. We Pakistani's are opposite of that.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Priority should be for folks who can do the work on Time or earlier with great security record.
Most companies will hire local Engineers anyways for projects that would run for 4-5 years

 

[Beskar]

FWO can do it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Lately the projects done by Local Teams have run into 1 year or 2 year delays and it means more money and overload , I would rather have folks who build on time or if they finish work sooner even better

Building one of Largest DAMs also needs some special skills , and Chinese firms have some great experience

3 Gorges Dam , Technological Marvel

 

[FuturePAF]

To be honest it's not like we don't have the experts or managers. Our problem as a people and nation is we cut corners. We find the easy way out. Even I who has had minimal exposure to Pakistan are effected by this. Last year I had a German friend visit me who is a carpenter. While he was here [UK] he offered to do my garden fence and gate. We went to buy the wood. I swear this guy refused to do the work unless his choice of wood was bought. His choice was like 50% more expensive and had special treatment with 20 year guarantee. Then when he did the work he insisted on using these special bolt things for the stone whereas I was okay with screws. The guy spent 5 days and I swear he kept having disagreements with me over how it was done. At one point the slats ran out. I suggested that he spsce them out 10 cm more and then the job could get done. Again he refused,. The gate consumed enough twice more wood then I would have agreed with. The darned thing weighed a ton. When job was done he was like big smile and look of satisfaction as if it was his house. This guy was only in UK for three weeks and he would be gone back to Germany. But oh no pride in his work would not be compromised. When a friend came and had chat with him he found out back in Germany he did roofs as well. He took him to a house he was renovating. When he was offered the job the German refused because he said the roof tiles were not appropriate to the house. My friend had bought this composite artifical tiles. The German would not have it. He declined to do the work unless the proper traditional Welsh slate tiles were bought. My friend actually called the German 'mad'.

But then that this was German culture at play. No wonder their cars, engineering, their cities are remarkable. and by the way the fence he built everybody actually says it is fantastic and looks like it will be around for another 100 years. We Pakistani's are opposite of that.

So then we will have to use foreign experts to keep us in check. With the Dams elevated to a Number One national program, I agree we can't allow anyone to cut corners, but we also need to reform our own people. They can be double checked by the Professional Foreign Expert before any work gets done, but our local experts need to learn the right way of doing things and why its important. We need to have locals who learn the right way, in case their are issues with the project and the foreign experts have to leave. Down the line these experts can work on tens of smaller dams, and we need the knowledge transfer and discipline drilled into them. Those that perform can be elevated on merit, and those that don't won't be given future contracts.

 

[krash]

Get the foreign experts and managers if ours are not up to the standard. But the manual labor, and sourcing the raw materials should be local if the money is local. That was my point. I agree with your sentiments.

That is actually how it's done for the most part. This is because it also makes better sense for the Chinese companies to source available services locally. It reduces a lot of their costs.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Does Pakistan even have companies that can build a Dam?

To be honest it's not like we don't have the experts or managers. Our problem as a people and nation is we cut corners. We find the easy way out. Even I who has had minimal exposure to Pakistan are effected by this. Last year I had a German friend visit me who is a carpenter. While he was here [UK] he offered to do my garden fence and gate. We went to buy the wood. I swear this guy refused to do the work unless his choice of wood was bought. His choice was like 50% more expensive and had special treatment with 20 year guarantee. Then when he did the work he insisted on using these special bolt things for the stone whereas I was okay with screws. The guy spent 5 days and I swear he kept having disagreements with me over how it was done. At one point the slats ran out. I suggested that he spsce them out 10 cm more and then the job could get done. Again he refused,. The gate consumed enough twice more wood then I would have agreed with. The darned thing weighed a ton. When job was done he was like big smile and look of satisfaction as if it was his house. This guy was only in UK for three weeks and he would be gone back to Germany. But oh no pride in his work would not be compromised. When a friend came and had chat with him he found out back in Germany he did roofs as well. He took him to a house he was renovating. When he was offered the job the German refused because he said the roof tiles were not appropriate to the house. My friend had bought this composite artifical tiles. The German would not have it. He declined to do the work unless the proper traditional Welsh slate tiles were bought. My friend actually called the German 'mad'.

But then that this was German culture at play. No wonder their cars, engineering, their cities are remarkable. and by the way the fence he built everybody actually says it is fantastic and looks like it will be around for another 100 years. We Pakistani's are opposite of that.

I gotta agree with you mate, we Pakistanis are fond of the term "Jugarrh" which basically means to just get it done cheaply. I am personally a victim of my own Jugarrhi, i bought a new house and needed to get landscaping done on my front yard. I choose the cheapest materials and the cheapest labour and that basically screwed me as at the end all my grass and plants died and the front looked horrible, the cheap labour was cheap because they had no idea what they were doing. So i had to redo it but this time i had learnt my lesson and did my homework and choose the perfect material and choose certified landscapers who i hired after i saw a couple of their other projects.

After that i did my backyard myself and it took alot of time because i work 6 days but when i was finished, man i was so proud. Never again will i do a jugarrhi.

 

[zip]

If you give project to a foreign company they will take half of the amount to their motherland through profit ,imported workforce,machienery etc in form of $ depleting weak reserves .

 

[Zhukov]

Don't forget outsourcing work to foreign companies means payments in foreign reserves no matter if the cost is less. Local companies reimbursements means no pressure on depleting foreign reserves.
We will never become an independent nation if we keep on pushing this mindset of importing good quality because local quality is not mature enough.
We need this kind of a project done by local companies to boost as national achievement and morale booster for local industry as well. and DB Dam is the best considering the hype it have achieved already. Give contracts to local companies, Government should monitor it as first priority, deadlines, quality of work, Funds utilization. If we pull this out with local work and most of resources from Pakistan then this can be a game changer.
Or else there is no hope escaping this import driven doomed economy.