Baithak: Cultures & Colors of Pakistan.

[Erhabi]

Ye kia mix aur mixture laga raka he?

Hybrid bolun?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

so which come first for you? Afghan pashtun or pakistani punjabi/sindhi/balohi/ muhajir?

Whats up with this question?. Afghans are not kafirs, they are your fellow muslims. I am an ethnic Afghan, so are all pakistani pakhtuns so your question doesnt make any sense.

secondly do you recognize durrand line?

Durand is a border between Pakistan and Afghanistan but it doesnt exist for pashtuns of both side.

thirdly you told me you do tablig so tell me what islam say about taking pride in race and ethnicity ? Islamic criteria of pride is only good conduct and taqwa..no?

well I don't see how a person can feel pride for something that is as impersonal as race and ethnicity but then again its just me.

Well islam doesnt refrain you from taking pride in your heroes like sher shah suri, ahmad shah abdali etc. If Pashtun nationalism is haraam according to islam from your point of view then so is Pakistani nationalism.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

See this is the problem.You have some pre conceived notions on others and based on that you are looking down on others.What is the problem with being born in Uganda or Zimbabwe.I am sure If I was a Ugandan Zimbabwean I'd been proud of my ethnic identity.There is nothing wrong in it.Problem iss.

Are you stupid or what ? you cannot comprhend a simple point. i said people blindly pride in whatever ethnicity they are born in so Ks was born in tamil ethnicity so he is having pride in tamil ethnicity but if he was born in any ethnic group of uganda then he take pride in that group so this is blind pride without free choice..

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Whats up with this question?. Afghans are not kafirs, they are your fellow muslims. I am an ethnic Afghan, so are all pakistani pakhtuns so your question doesnt make any sense.


Durand is a border between Pakistan and Afghanistan but it doesnt exist for pashtuns of both side.


Well islam doesnt refrain you from taking pride in your heroes like sher shah suri, ahmad shah abdali etc. If Pashtun nationalism is haraam according to islam from your point of view then so is Pakistani nationalism.

when i said Afghans are kafirs ? i actually wanted to know that as a pakistani pashtun which side you will pick when there is clash between pakistani national interests with Agfhan national interests. you will take the side of nation or ethnic in such conflict ?


yea islam is also against blind nationalism ..patriotism is different thing

 

[Azazel]

Are you stupid or what ? you cannot comprhend a simple point. i said people blindly pride in whatever ethnicity they are born in so Ks was born in tamil ethnicity so he is having pride in tamil ethnicity but if he was born in any ethnic group of uganda then he take pride in that group so this is blind pride without free choice..

Nope,not without free choice.Its the choice of that person to be proud of its ethnicity.Whether that is blind or not is depended on that person.It may vary for different individual.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Nope,not without free choice.Its the choice of that person to be proud of its ethnicity.Whether that is blind or not is depended on that person.It may vary for different individual.

How its free choice when he was born there without any choice . KS did not selected tamil ethnicity for him ? did he ? If he was born in punjabi or sidhi family then he start taking pride in these ethnicites

 

[Azazel]

How its free choice when he was born there without any choice . KS did not selected tamil ethnicity for him ? did he ? If he was born in punjabi or sidhi family then he start taking pride in these ethnicites

Just because born in to one ethnicity does not mean he will automatically be proud about it.Its the choice of that person to be proud about it.Same goes for nationalism or religion etc.

 

[Safriz]

All those giving examples of india are forgetting that Hindustan has been there for 5000 years.
They had all the time in the world to adjust with each other,and yet they have ethnic friction.
Pakistan is just a few decades old.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

All those giving examples of india are forgetting that Hindustan has been there for 5000 years.
They had all the time in the world to adjust with each other,and yet they have ethnic friction.
Pakistan is just a few decades old.

Pakistan might be few decades old but punjabis, pashtuns, balochs and sindhis are living side by side on this soil for centuries and milliniums. Pakistan may or may not exist in future but these nations would exist. And if you are desiring for some homogeneous racial admixture in pakistan in your life time, then it is impossible, if you want it possible then the only way is to put them in chambers togather and breed them like animals like what balgharia tried to do with its turkish population.
And also urdufication has failed. Only punjab has responed to it. Rest are sticking strongely to their mother tongues and are using urdu only as a communication langauge.

 

[jandk]

you cannot take away people's ethnic identity no matter what because for example, tamils are tamil for past 5000 years, and indian for only 65. same goes for pashtun, punjabi etc.. recognizing this fact is very important in order to reconcile both national and ethnic identities.

 

[Safriz]

Pakistan might be few decades old but punjabis, pashtuns, balochs and sindhis are living side by side on this soil for centuries and milliniums. Pakistan may or may not exist in future but these nations would exist. And if you are desiring for some homogeneous racial admixture in pakistan in your life time, then it is impossible, if you want it possible then the only way is to put them in chambers togather and breed them like animals like what balgharia tried to do with its turkish population.
And also urdufication has failed. Only punjab has responed to it. Rest are sticking strongely to their mother tongues and are using urdu only as a communication langauge.

Or go stalin style..
When chechens,kazaks and many other central asians tried to supercede their ethnic identity from soviet identity and cause trouble,they were hoarded in shipsand despatched to far flung areas to live,and were scattered,to an extent that they forgot their ethnicity and embraced a common soviet identity.
Thats how USSR became a super power and we are a gutter power and set to sink further down..
True that pushtoon,punjabi,baloch were there since before Pakistan but these seperate identities took them nowhere..
No Pushtoon state,Punjabi or sindhi state ever became a world class power in anytning...
Or did they?
'Stuck in the medeival era' mentality will take us nowhere...

No country in the world has progressed while divided into regional ethnic groups.
Only when regional ethnicities sacrifies their regiobal identity for national identity,then countries progress.
Give me a single example when a country has progressed while torn apart on ethnic,linguistic grounds?

and people like you will proudly 'englishify' but will have all the problems with urdufication if that is anything.

 

[Safriz]

Another trouble with stuck up people like you is that you cannot accept any reason of unification as a nation or a country.
Bring in religion and try to build a pan islamic unification even on Pakistanls level and you have problem.
Bring in a common language and again you have problem.
Brinng in a national Pakistani identity,again you have a problem.
Lets see how much Pushtoons are united,based on your claim that pushtoons were there and will be there,even without Pakistan.
Yousufzais are looked down by many pushtoon tribes and called non pushtoin because yousufzais are relatively calm people.
Same for 'shehri peshawaris' are looked down at and called non pushtoons..
Same goes for 'hindko' speakers of pushtoon ethnicity,as there are many in Peshawar and Hazara.
They too are looked down at by most Pushtoons.
So there you go..
Your claim that ' Pushtoon' is a nation and can be united on ethic grounds and dont need Pakistan is a lie,and load of farce...
A common..broader denominator is neeced beyond ethnicity for progress and peace.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

just because born in to one ethnicity does not mean he will automatically be proud about it.Its the choice of that person to be proud about it.Same goes for nationalism or religion etc.

that's what you observe here . monkey having pride in pashtun roots because he was born in that ethnicity and KS having pride in Tamil ethnicity because he got stuck there so choice would be there if they had ability to choose their ethnicity or had ability to change it but they cannot.

My point is taking pride in ethnicity make as much sense as having pride in existence, pride in height, pride in gender, sexual orientation, colour, race etc. Its perfectly fine to be pleased with these things but pride make sense only for those things which you have achieved through your personal efforts or hardwork. These things we don't choose for ourselves so no reason for us to have pride in them. When i keep pride in one ethnicity it automatically suggest that i give more importance to my ethnicity over others otherwise they all would be equal to me. All ethnicity have got good and bad guys, warriors, heroes ,villains, intelligent, dumb people so having pride in one ethnicity just because you happened to born there don't make sense to me. You guys may disagree and continue

Religion is not same as ethnicity. Religion is a belief system and you have to accept and agree with these beliefs and have to practice them then it would make you a religious person. people can change their beliefs from religious to agnostic or atheist or from atheist to religious but you cannot change your race and ethnicity. Islam is also against this pride of thinking yourself more pious than others.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

you cannot take away people's ethnic identity no matter what because for example, tamils are tamil for past 5000 years, and indian for only 65. same goes for pashtun, punjabi etc.. recognizing this fact is very important in order to reconcile both national and ethnic identities.

tell me one thing Indian Punjabi share same ethnicity as pakistani punjabi so should they be more loyal to pakistani punjabi than indian tamils ? if no ? why not when you suggest they were Punjabi long before Indians?

same is true for tamil people of South India and north east of Sri Lanka. If tamils are tamil for past 5000 years and indian for only 65 then tamils of sri lanka should come before indian punjabi for any indian tamils? NO?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Another trouble with stuck up people like you is that you cannot accept any reason of unification as a nation or a country.
Bring in religion and try to build a pan islamic unification even on Pakistanls level and you have problem.
Bring in a common language and again you have problem.
Brinng in a national Pakistani identity,again you have a problem.
Lets see how much Pushtoons are united,based on your claim that pushtoons were there and will be there,even without Pakistan.
Yousufzais are looked down by many pushtoon tribes and called non pushtoin because yousufzais are relatively calm people.
Same for 'shehri peshawaris' are looked down at and called non pushtoons..
Same goes for 'hindko' speakers of pushtoon ethnicity,as there are many in Peshawar and Hazara.
They too are looked down at by most Pushtoons.
So there you go..
Your claim that ' Pushtoon' is a nation and can be united on ethic grounds and dont need Pakistan is a lie,and load of farce...
A common..broader denominator is neeced beyond ethnicity for progress and peace.

Some people just find reasons/excuses for fights. It could be on ethnic grounds..on religious grounds, on sects/differences within same religions.on different tribes within same ethnicity as i have observed the cold-blooded wars between shinwari and afridi tribe in khyber agency..now what is excuse there when you share same ethnicity/religion with them? why fight?