Asim munier murda bad: skardu

[TaimiKhan]

U have any solution for going after army so breaking of constitution stops. Something effective in the long run but practical too ?


ISI was working before that to bring IK in. Infact, before all this, ISI was on the path to “sort of” generate a bigger gathering for PTI jalsas, against other political parties.

Kaan left se pakro ya right se, Army did what it wanted.

Before taking out army from politics we need to have some basic and fundamental restructuring done in the politics side.

1. Change in election rules, if want proper democracy then remove this family politics from our political system.

2. Just like western system, head of parties should be seasoned politicians and they should be selected for a fixed term and replaced by new cadre, so we are not stuck with just a few for decades. And no family members to succeed or even given any key post in party or govt.

3. Conflict of interest should be introduced. Businessman, industrialists, jagirdars etc should be cut from politics.

4. Based on 1 province result, no one should rule whole of Pakistan. Whoever wins Punjab, rules all other 3 provinces.

5. Reduce number of MNA and MPAs and they should be good education qualified.
Their JD should be to listen to their people and with help of govt and bureaucracy resolve hardships and legislature.

6. Key posts in ministry should be highly qualified ppl like in USA. President selects professional ppl and runs with oversight of congressman and senators.

7. Elections should be party majority win based. A party should come and its head is responsible to run the country for 5 years and make policies based on ground realities rather then blackmailed by army chief or politicians. Like taxes on property, smuggling stoppage, agri income tax etc etc.

8. Army power in hand of a single person to be abolished. COAS should not be so powerful.

9. Reduce number of lt generals and maj generals and brigadiers. Give brigade command to full Cols, div to brigadier, corps to major generals and only sector commander be Lt Gen that also just 2-3 ones, not more. CJCSC should have administrative command of corps commanders ensuring postings and promotions are his prerogative. Same for air force and navy.

Israeli Army is a role model. Colonel commands Brigade, Brigadier Commands a Division and the IDF chief is a Major General who reports to Chief of General Staff who is a Lt General.

Our army gives brigadier and maj gen and lt gen promotions and positions as if public langar khanaaa hai.

We have 2 full gens, 30+ or so Lt Gens and 210-220+ major generals making something like 250 generals leaving aside double the number of brigadiers.

USA army who are double our size and much more complicated and professional have total 220-230 generals.

10. Control the army business empire and make them a professional soldiers instead of property dealers and heading civilian posts which they r not qualified for. 2 decades of war and our army cannot provide basic armoured like MRAP or small arms protected vehicles to army and they wanna run the country. First run ur army. Today 9 soldiers martyred in suicide attack in Bannu, a motorbike borne suicide bomber.

And i can keep on going as we need very serious structural changes in our political setup, economic setup and military setup.

Law of the land is to be made supreme so ppl can get justice as what we are seeing since last 3 months is utter brutality which is giving more hatred and increasing day by day especially with the economic meltdown we are going through.

Dont wait that people reach to your army walaaa and politicians homes. Times are changing, last few months have clearly shown ppl now will not be distracted by shaheed card, statue of karnal sher khan card even though it was never his statue as he was from Sindh regt and martyred in NLI thus his statue cannot be infront of PRC mardan, and the jinnah house card as now whole nation knows how army captured this place and the words to give some money to the boorhiyaa / and kutia word used came to be known. So whatever card army is playing its failing miserably.

So army leadership koo hosh kae nakhun lainay chahiyea or we may face very dire situation.

 

[Skimming]

Same fauj which rigged and brought PTI into power- but that is considered halal.



PTI and it’s fans embody hypocrisy and lies, just like other political parties of Pakistan and their fans.

Bajwa was best for PTI when IK was in power. Total lunacy.


Imran khan holds the honour of licking these shiny DMS of Army officers, making bestie out of Bajwa and accepting rigging to come in power.

But that’s acceptable coz it’s the righteous IK

You will be having hard time defending the organization you defend. They are now frequently being called duffers.

 

[MilSpec]

Only if he actually broke the law.

Merely ‘knowing that Fauj was helping him’, as you allege, is not a crime.

Fauj helping the other side won't be a crime either then? fauj giveths and fauj taketh away.

 

[TaimiKhan]

You will be having hard time defending the organization you defend. They are now frequently being called duffers.

They are actually duffers. Just simple graduates and then get Bachelor's degree in PMA from their own university / education setup and then mostly get educated in NUST or NDU..

Plus they have no temperament to do discussion, in their dictionary what they say is the law and that is why Pakistan is today fcuked up.

Except for just a few, majority are duffers and have low intellectual capability.

And i feel sorry to be saying this especially with so many close family relatives in army and a former strong supporter of army.

Now i feel angry seeing them in cantonment areas and on checkpoints, cant help myself doing a salam to them. Just show my ID card with eyes in front and speed away. There was a time used to give jalebis and cold drinks on eid to the nearest checkpoint from my home.

They have lost their respect and dignity.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fauj helping the other side won't be a crime either then? fauj giveths and fauj taketh away.

You’ve shown yourself to be good at comprehending English over the years so I can only assume that you’re cherry picking one line out of one post and ignoring reams of other detailed posts, not just on this thread, but across the forum for over a year now.

That said, let me spell it out for you (again) - the issue here is the Fauj violating the constitution, rigging elections, manipulating civilian institutions and politicians to achieve ANY kind of result, whether in favor or against the PTI, PMLN, PPP, TLP or JUI.

The demand is for the Fauj to STOP this unconstitutional political meddling and fascist crackdown on ANY political party or dissenter and accept the authority of ANY civilian government elected through genuinely free and fair elections.

So, to get back to your original comment, the Fauj committed the crimes, and only if individuals in government deliberately acted to violate the law would the politicians or government officials be guilty of a crime.

For example, the PDM has knowingly gone along and supported the fascist Fauj crackdown against the PTI and other dissenters. Any government officials knowingly involved in this crackdown should be held reaponsible.

 

[IceCold]

IK was hand picked. No argument here, coz otherwise stop blaming Army for bringing up hand picked politicians or parties as why would Army slip just one time and if you still hold that IK wasn’t hand picked then start giving benefit of doubt to army everywhere.

What a load of crap. If Khan really wanted to ride on to the shoulders of napak army he would done way back when Musharraf offered him, instead he went to jail. So save your BS of army bringing him in. Army robbed him twice. First in 2013 when Nawaj harami declared victory even before the results were announced. Again in 2018 When Khan could have easily gotten 2/3rd majority the elections were again managed to make sure he gets a compromised government.
This is what this institution is been doing since Pakistan's inception. This isn't about any one man but the entire mindset prevailing.

 

[Bilal.]

1) It'll take 2-3 decades at least if we start rolling things right now
2) Nawaz played his handwell , he strong armed them to get bitten by them. Plus Bajwa was of like day to day type of a guy but AM ain't that type of a person.

There is no course correction. Things ARE being dealt on day to day reactive manner. The only “plan” as of now is to sell off assets, land and mineral resources to Saudis and others in the name of “investment” and live another day. while kicking our own people in the guts at the slightest protest or demand of rights.

AM could have completely reversed the course set by QJB when he became the chief and the healing process would have started and he would have become a hero. By now, military would have regained the respect it has lost. But he has proven (till now) to be a small man with big ego. While the military is behaving like a conquering colonial power even taking cues from indian and israeli SOPs in dealing with dissent.

 

[HerbertPervert]

Time for solutions has come and gone. I expect economic & maybe governance collapse by end of this year.

Even if Imran Khan is brought back, Pakistan will probably default on its loans and restructure its debts. Constitution has to be discarded. Many institutions have to be dissolved because they're too corrupt to function.

Basically a new country has to be made.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

I’m a cynic, believing as I do that institutions almost never self harm - that is, systems themselves (indepndent of individuals) tend to to protect their power or influence.

In other words PA will never willingly reduce its power base, even if there comes a COAS who so desires. And in this the PA is the same as most other institutions the world over.

Therefore advocating that the PA should do this or that to improve won’t work, when all it means is a reduction of it’s influence in Pakistani life.

What will work - IMO - is the PA itself concluding (or being led to conclude) that in today’s social, media, younger demographic and political landscape, it can retain its prestige and influence only if it withdraws into the background and users levers of influence that are far subtler. In short, the institution follows a path of self interest that is also beneficial to the nation.

A lot can be said on this, but I’ll leave it here for now.

 

[Signalian]

work should be done on IB, ISI has lost the acquisition abroad plot for sometime now , engage ice in bigger issues instead of petty ones.
Lawyers are divided right now I hate to say this but PTI should join in hand with ppp on single point agenda of elections, they have strong presence in bar the junta won't escape the heat from these big 2's on political & judiciary landscape



1) It'll take 2-3 decades at least if we start rolling things right now
2) Nawaz played his handwell , he strong armed them to get bitten by them. Plus Bajwa was of like day to day type of a guy but AM ain't that type of a person.

This division of lawyers has become detrimental to the country. I think lawyers are one of the bodies who can go after military.

I’ll indulge you - how exactly will the judiciary go after retired generals when the judicary is being coerced by the same Fauj?

What incentive does the Fauj have to allow the judiciary to go after retired Army officers for violating the constitution and rigging elections, and how exactly do we get to that point?

The same way lawyers went after military with or without judiciary. It’s the lawyers who know the loopholes of every law and they can form a ton of cases. The judiciary can tackle and reject a few cases but not a plethora of cases. Secondly judiciary cannot go in a direction where a revolt of lawyers can come on the horizon. This further needs backing from public as well as media. Judiciary may have backing of army but against lawyers it becomes tricky for them. It’s the buying out of lawyers that’s more worrisome.

Only if he actually broke the law.

Merely ‘knowing that Fauj was helping him’, as you allege, is not a crime.

Simply put - not knowing the law is the fault of the citizen just like not knowing the speed limit is the fault of the motorist and he gets fined.

Simply knowing that law is being broken and standing mute is against the law. It means you are party to it unless you report it. IK stayed mute and became a party to it. That’s breaking the law

Anyways, IK is suffering already so I’m not keen on IK’s case, it’s the lawyers not doing anything against Army that’s irking me.

 

[PakCan]

This division of lawyers has become detrimental to the country. I think lawyers are one of the bodies who can go after military.

I am having hard time understanding your argument here. You want lawyers to after military but you refuse to criticize the current military leadership.

 

[Signalian]

I am having hard time understanding your argument here. You want lawyers to after military but you refuse to criticize the current military leadership.

Yar, why do I need to satisfy a certain fetish of yours ? Or for that matter anybody else’s fetish ?

I have mentioned that going after any serving COAS is impossible, but going after retired ones is possible. So either ping me when Asim Muneer is retired or find me a plan that such and such are practical and possible ways to go after current COAS.

 

[Signalian]

I’m a cynic, believing as I do that institutions almost never self harm - that is, systems themselves (indepndent of individuals) tend to to protect their power or influence.

In other words PA will never willingly reduce its power base, even if there comes a COAS who so desires. And in this the PA is the same as most other institutions the world over.

Therefore advocating that the PA should do this or that to improve won’t work, when all it means is a reduction of it’s influence in Pakistani life.

What will work - IMO - is the PA itself concluding (or being led to conclude) that in today’s social, media, younger demographic and political landscape, it can retain its prestige and influence only if it withdraws into the background and users levers of influence that are far subtler. In short, the institution follows a path of self interest that is also beneficial to the nation.

A lot can be said on this, but I’ll leave it here for now.

There was a time I made a lot of topics, majority hypothetical based on ideas which can be implemented practically, mostly in Army and PAF sections. In fact, some changes were seen in PA that I had mentioned in those topics coz maybe they were practical however most was hypothetical though not a wish list.

Recently, I saw a change. The people who never came out on streets to protest against rising petrol prices had come out against electricity bills. So something finally pushed the people. I had expected the same when IK was jailed recently but it’s the electricity bills which gave pain to public more than anything else.

Similarly, What will make lawyers come out on streets against army just like in 07/08. Should the CJ be put in danger again ? Should the courts be made a mockery of by the public ? Should public come out against the courts ?

Lawyers are a notorious bunch. They vandalise the same courts where they earn money from. So courts are susceptible to be trashed anytime.

If public can come on the roads then so can lawyers as well as journalists. If they all join hands, then that’s a weapon which can be used to bring in retired senior officers through information leading to cases against them. Cases can be made in all cities where these officers have served during their tenure in military service.

 

[PakCan]

Yar, why do I need to satisfy a certain fetish of yours ? Or for that matter anybody else’s fetish ?

I have mentioned that going after any serving COAS is impossible, but going after retired ones is possible. So either ping me when Asim Muneer is retired or find me a plan that such and such are practical and possible ways to go after current COAS.

speaking facts is not a fetish. Words matter and refusal to say the truth says a lot. Bajwa was not alone, he was supported by the corp commander’s and the ISI chief.

Bajwa can wait, he was the COAS but the current COAS is the Pharaoh in place. You think Asim Traitor Munir will let lawyers to go after Bajwa?

I do pray lawyers and people of Pakistan make a stand and demand fair and free elections. It will be upon the freely elected government to go after all the traitors . Current or former army chiefs and the culprits need to be hanged.

Lie can be told a thousand times but eventually the truth will come out.

I am glad you are able to satisfy your fetish of defending the institution blindly.

 

[SaadH]

Check the likes on faujeet propaganda twitter page.

Its ISPR bots, faujeet bots, Patwari bots, and PPP bots. We've come full circle.

They have all united against us LMAO.

Don't forget VHP's/BJP's cyber sanghi bots now fully onboard with the sepoys as their masters.

What a load of crap. If Khan really wanted to ride on to the shoulders of napak army he would done way back when Musharraf offered him, instead he went to jail. So save your BS of army bringing him in. Army robbed him twice. First in 2013 when Nawaj harami declared victory even before the results were announced. Again in 2018 When Khan could have easily gotten 2/3rd majority the elections were again managed to make sure he gets a compromised government.
This is what this institution is been doing since Pakistan's inception. This isn't about any one man but the entire mindset prevailing.

Yup, vividly remember the scenes unfolding on live TV, MQM thugs walking away with ballot boxes and Kiyani the frankenstein dopple ganger refusing to intervene.