Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crash lands at San Francisco airport

[gambit]

1. the poor girl was run-over
2. the response time (amublance, fire-engines) etc

the people in there who are americans sucked - big time!

Soooo...

1- You are ignorance about accident investigations. Did not even bothered to do basic research on the difficulties involved.

2- You have no hard data, not even reasonable speculations from reputable sources, on how the accident could have been avoided without compromising response time and procedures.

But hey...!!! Intellectual honesty never stopped you guys before...

 

[shuttler]

Soooo...

1- You are ignorance about accident investigations. Did not even bothered to do basic research on the difficulties involved.

2- You have no hard data, not even reasonable speculations from reputable sources, on how the accident could have been avoided without compromising response time and procedures.

But hey...!!! Intellectual honesty never stopped you guys before...

chill out troll

when you are driving ( or do you even have a driver's license) are your eyes looking at the ceilings?

 

[gambit]

chill out troll

when you are driving ( or do you even have a driver's license) are your eyes looking at the ceilings?

Did you asked that question of the Chinese drivers who ran over that little girl?

The difference between you and I is that I made no insulting comments against the Chinese people in that terrible event. You can go back to that discussion and see how many comments I made and if I am as racist as you Chinese are, that thread would have been a gold mine for what I could have spewed out.

Whereas in this case, you know nothing about aviation mishap investigation, how airport responders perform, what they have to do, how they are going to respond to something that is inherently unpredictable, etc...You know nothing and yet you have no problems making declarations about Americans. You do not even know that right now, Chinese airport responders are busy working with their American counterparts on understanding this event without your racist biases in their cooperation.

Pathetic...

 

[kalu_miah]

4 pilots are now in Korea, their version of the story will soon come out. NTSB is prematurely pointing at pilot error, citing no mechanical problems with the plane.

3 dead so far.

A key issue being discussed is auto throttle being armed but not working properly to maintain speed, I saw in a Korean tv program today. About 9 seconds before impact and 500 ft in the air, the pilots identified the speed as too slow. So they knew about the problem, tried to solve the speed problem probably and then around 3 second and 1.5 second before impact tried to "go around" or abort landing, but it was too late at that point to abort landing.

There is a lot of mystery, why two experienced pilot at the cockpit failed. A third one came in to notify about slow speed apparently. One was in training with only 36 hour prior exp. in 777, but thousands of hours exp. in other planes, and the co-pilot had thousands of hours exp. with 777.

One possible suspect is the auto throttle, which failed to maintain speed, the other is engine not responding to command and the one that every US source is claiming is pilot error.

The two black boxes are with NTSB, and it is even possible that true story may not come out to protect Boeing and its business. So the pilots story will be a key source of information to authenticate the NTSB findings.

 

[gambit]

4 pilots are now in Korea, their version of the story will soon come out. NTSB is prematurely pointing at pilot error, citing no mechanical problems with the plane.

3 dead so far.

A key issue being discussed is auto throttle being armed but not working properly to maintain speed, I saw in a Korean tv program today. About 9 seconds before impact and 500 ft in the air, the pilots identified the speed as too slow. So they knew about the problem, tried to solve the speed problem probably and then around 3 second and 1.5 second before impact tried to "go around" or abort landing, but it was too late at that point to abort landing.

There is a lot of mystery, why two experienced pilot at the cockpit failed. A third one came in to notify about slow speed apparently. One was in training with only 36 hour prior exp. in 777, but thousands of hours exp. in other planes, and the co-pilot had thousands of hours exp. with 777.

One possible suspect is the auto throttle, which failed to maintain speed, the other is engine not responding to command and the one that every US source is claiming is pilot error.

The two black boxes are with NTSB, and it is even possible that true story may not come out to protect Boeing and its business. So the pilots story will be a key source of information to authenticate the NTSB findings.

Spare everyone your loony conspiracy theories. If you are smart enough to use a computer, you should be smart enough to use keyword searches about 'boeing 777 autothrottle', then you would have found far more credible sources than your own mind...

Asiana 214 Crash: Lessons Learned | Flying Magazine

The key might be found in a built-in operator trap, which results from the way the autothrottles on the 777 function. This is well known by 777 pilots and is referred to as the FLCH Trap. It’s possible that because of the autopilot mode (flight level change, or FLCH mode) the pilots had chosen, the autothrottles were, unbeknownst to the pilots, inhibited from activating automatically, resulting in the airplane getting very low and very slow.

One lesson here is simple: Know your technology. Once upon a time, this kind of lesson didn’t apply to pilots of light airplanes (at least not very much), but today it does, as many of our systems technology are of the same order of complexity of many business jets and airliners. On just about every airplane I fly, there are things to know and avoid, like the 777 FLCH trap that might have been a factor in the Asiana crash. Indeed, it's likely that the airplane you fly has built-in traps as well if there's any automation built in at all (or even if there's not). The simple but potentially deadly autopilot stall springs to mind, as do various trim malfunctions and easy-to-make flight management errors.

For the technically inclined, educated, trained, and experienced, thoughtful analyses will reveal that EVERY mechanical contraptions invented by man to date have these 'operational' or 'operator' traps. A 'trap' is simply a gap that mechanics, especially automation, could not anticipate and that a particular feature or several features will not be active as long as the entire system, be it a car or an aircraft, remains in that trap. That is why despite our technology and automation, the human remains vital and supreme in terms of having an instinct that something should be instead of just simply 'as is'.

 

[gambit]

Here is what people needs to understand lest their critical thinking processes be contaminated by the many loony conspiracy theories out there...

Asiana 777 pilot assumed autothrottles engaged until seconds before impact

After the crash, the NTSB entered the cockpit and found the autothrottles in the armed position, Hersman says. Her investigators are now verifying that discovery with the flight data recorder. If he recorder corroborates the on-scene finding, the NTSB will then explore how the autothrottles function in different operational modes.

"Armed means that they are available to be engaged, but depending on what mode is used we really need to understand that a little better," Hersman says.

When a mode switch is designed to have an 'Armed' position/function, it means that sub-system with all of its sensors and processing capability is available to be used, but not necessarily in use. It is like a 'weapons enabled' feature in military aviation where the switch is in the 'Armed' position but the bomb/missile is still attached to the aircraft until the pilot actually command the launch. Am sure there are people willing to do simply image search to verify for themselves.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Here is what people needs to understand lest their critical thinking processes be contaminated by the many loony conspiracy theories out there...

Asiana 777 pilot assumed autothrottles engaged until seconds before impact

When a mode switch is designed to have an 'Armed' position/function, it means that sub-system with all of its sensors and processing capability is available to be used, but not necessarily in use. It is like a 'weapons enabled' feature in military aviation where the switch is in the 'Armed' position but the bomb/missile is still attached to the aircraft until the pilot actually command the launch. Am sure there are people willing to do simply image search to verify for themselves.

That explanation makes sense. Likewise; when the aircraft is about to begin the flight envelope, the cabin doors are "armed" for activation/operation in the event of a mishap. That indicates "ready for operation" but does not mean "operational". I know that bit for sure, but not too much about cockpit/flight-deck ops.

 

[gambit]

Armchair Quarterbacking the Asiana 214 Crash | Flying Magazine

Pilots are curious people. We want answers. We have an above average knowledge of the subject regardless of our experience level. I am very familiar with some of the technical aspects of this accident. Those aspects all point to automation issues. That being said, I refuse to offer conjecture as fact until all the answers are available. The problem is not solved by assigning blame — at least not yet.

As history has shown, never is there just one factor in an accident. In this circumstance, I venture a guess that fatigue, training and culture will be some of the factors involved. And just maybe, because the NTSB has not shown all of its cards, a technical issue may be discovered.

Although I can offer possible causal scenarios to the tragedy, I will not armchair quarterback. I would like to give the NTSB investigators an opportunity to complete their field investigation before I pass judgment.

That is correct...A professional pilot is publicly stating that he will not second guess his peers when they were in the cockpit of Asiana 214 and by that public admission, he is telling everyone to STFU as well. Aviation professionals in the NTSB are among the best in the world in terms of flying experience, engineering, and technical investigation. Decoding the flight data and voice recorders and putting them into understandable format for the public is not like plugging in a console game box and 'away we go'. And here we have some who are more interested in exploiting any tragedy, the kind that could happen to their own countrymen, just to poke US in the eye. In the end, they are more fools than they realize.

Pathetic.

 

[kalu_miah]

Armchair Quarterbacking the Asiana 214 Crash | Flying Magazine

That is correct...A professional pilot is publicly stating that he will not second guess his peers when they were in the cockpit of Asiana 214 and by that public admission, he is telling everyone to STFU as well. Aviation professionals in the NTSB are among the best in the world in terms of flying experience, engineering, and technical investigation. Decoding the flight data and voice recorders and putting them into understandable format for the public is not like plugging in a console game box and 'away we go'. And here we have some who are more interested in exploiting any tragedy, the kind that could happen to their own countrymen, just to poke US in the eye. In the end, they are more fools than they realize.

Pathetic.

Spare us your hyperventilation, what is it to you anyways, you have a US flag flying over your house, or do you have one sticking out of your car?

No one is spreading conspiracy theories. I just stated what I saw in a Korean TV program. My version may not be entirely correct, as my Korean is not great and someone translated for me partly. I am not an expert on Auto throttle, I am sure you are not either. But it is too early to say what happened, pilot error or equipment malfunction.

It is obvious that we have to wait for NTSB investigation to complete. But anyone who has been in the US long enough, knows about the revolving door between govt. and industry, so NTSB, like FDA and USDA are not fool proof.

In this situation, it is quite fair for the Koreans to doubt any finding by NTSB, if NTSB did not have any Korean govt. staff present during the first initial investigation of the Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder. The data could easily be duplicated under joint custody and given to ROK govt. for their own investigation. That way any accusation of wrong doing or cover up could easily be avoided. May be the people in NTSB are too dumb to figure this out?

There should be a UN resolution so that all FDR and CVR must be handed over to a UN investigating team and only duplicates should be handed over to individual stake holder nations. Individual nations should not be trusted with the custody of the original recovered FDR and CVR.

There is also rumor that US govt. has unofficially put a gag order on the pilots not to comment about an ongoing investigation, which is standard procedure for people within their jurisdiction, but can they do that to foreign citizens? Unless they are strong arming and forcing Korean govt. hands with repercussions, do this or else.

On another note, @East Asia United @sEoulman556 can you help us out here a little. What is Korean media saying about the crash? Are they saying NTSB and US media unfairly blaming Korean culture and pilots incompetence?

How dare the US and NTSB staff of all people say things like this about "high IQ" Koreans:
Sum ting wong
Wi Ti Lo
Ho Li Fuk
Bang Ding Ow