Are Indian Minorities Backward?

[notsuperstitious]

I've noticed that a lot of people here have serious concerns about the state of Indian minorities. There's nothing wrong in having genuine concern about fellow human beings. Only for those genuinely concerned, I think I should post this Economic Times Article that was printed in response to Sachar Committee report on the state of Muslims in India. There's other criticism of Sachar report available on the net too. However what is interesting is the statistics about household income / spending etc. So ignore the critical tone or the criticism and just look at the statistics and make up your own mind.Hope this helps us form better judgement and dispel some myths.

Muslims spend more than Hindu peers

NEW DELHI: Forget all half-baked opinions you may have heard on the economic state of religious communities in India. Truth be told, at the
national level, Hindus and Muslims are closer than you thought as far as average household income, expenditure, savings and even ownership of select consumer goods go.

In fact, in rural India, the gap between the two communities’ narrows appreciably and even reverses in some cases in favour of Muslims. Not surprisingly, the Sikhs are the most prosperous lot in India, with highest household income, expenditure and ownership of cars, two-wheelers, TV sets and refrigerators. Christians and other smaller communities don’t lag too far behind either.



In the first ever exercise mapping the economic contours of different religious communities in India, ET presents an exclusive peek into the National Council of Applied Economic Research’s (NCAER) data analysis from its National Survey of Household Income and Expenditure (2004-05), which was led by senior fellow Rajesh Shukla.




The survey collected primary data from a sample of approximately 63,000 households out of preliminary listed sample of 4,40,000 households spread over 1,976 villages (250 districts) and 2,255 urban wards (342 towns) covering 64 National Sample Survey (NSS) regions in 24 states/UTs.

If you thought Muslims alone were steeped in poverty, read on. Hindus and Muslims, at a national level, run neck-and-neck on average annual household income (AHI) of Rs 61, 423 and Rs 58,420, respectively.

Or, to put it differently, an average Hindu household has an income of Rs 168 per day, while an average Muslim household earns Rs 160 a day. In rural India, an average Hindu AHI is Rs 49,077 with Muslim close behind with AHI of Rs 47,805. On income parameters, at least, Hindus and Muslims are, indeed, bhai-bhai.

Marketers planning an ethnographic pitch to grab mindshare or policy makers preparing ground for affirmative action may do good to remember that an average Muslim household, at the national level, spends more than a Hindu one, with annual household routine expenditure (AHRE) at Rs 40,327 compared to Rs 40,009 for the latter.

Sikh household AHRE is highest at Rs 60,475 with Christians at Rs 45,291. In rural India, Muslim AHRE (Rs 33,711) is higher than Hindu (Rs 32,555) and compares well with Christian (Rs 38,068).

Interestingly, Muslims who are the bottom as far as income is concerned—top the list when AHRE is measured as a percentage of AHI. They spend over 69% of their income on routine household expenditure followed by Sikhs (66%) and Hindus (64%).

While the average national AHI for all religious groups at 2004-05 prices, stood at Rs 62,066, the patterns across specific groups reflect stark differential. The smaller religious communities (excluding Christians and Sikhs) taken as the whole are an affluent lot with AHI of over Rs 1 lakh. Sikhs and Christians leave larger communities way behind with AHI of Rs 91,153 and Rs 70,644 respectively.

And this has a clear impact on their expenditure and ownership patterns for a select consumer goods. Ownership patterns may tell their own story if the industry chooses to dig further. Penetration of cars is highest among Sikhs (17.3% households), followed by Christians (10.95%).

At the national level, Hindu and Muslim households virtually mirror each other on ownership of a host of products—cars (5.1% and 4.3%), two-wheeler (35.3% and 31.3%), refrigerator (17.9% and 15.9%) and radio (49.5% and 51.3%). Turn to rural India and Muslim households have an edge on not just AHRE, but even car ownership (2.6% versus 2.4% of Hindu households).

The only oddity in ownership between Hindus and Muslims is on television, with national penetration at 62.8 % and 54%, respectively. Even rural Muslim household lag here with penetration of just 39.1% compared to 52% for the majority community.

Muslims spend more than Hindu peers- Indicators-Economy-News-The Economic Times

 

[notsuperstitious]

To explain even the small gap between hindus and muslims, and the bigger one between hindus / muslims and other minorities, look at the geographical distribution of these populations. the other minorities chiefly live in south india, punjab and maharashtra which are prosperous. hindus and muslims are spread over india BUT 50% of indian muslims live in the three poorest states in india - UP, Bihar and West Bengal.

 

[notsuperstitious]

To explain even the small gap between hindus and muslims, and the bigger one between hindus / muslims and other minorities, look at the geographical distribution of these populations. the other minorities chiefly live in south india, punjab and maharashtra which are prosperous. hindus and muslims are spread over india BUT 50% of indian muslims live in the three poorest states in india - UP, Bihar and West Bengal.

 

[ju87]

To explain even the small gap between hindus and muslims, and the bigger one between hindus / muslims and other minorities, look at the geographical distribution of these populations. the other minorities chiefly live in south india, punjab and maharashtra which are prosperous. hindus and muslims are spread over india BUT 50% of indian muslims live in the three poorest states in india - UP, Bihar and West Bengal.

This is true. South India has higher per capita income than north (Punjab excepted). If I remember, Goa has the highest per capita income.

So much for MUSLIMS BEING OPPRESSED

 

[shukla_swapnil]

wow, I wonder why no debate was conducted on this topic.

 

[notsuperstitious]

wow, I wonder why no debate was conducted on this topic.

Because there's nothing of interest to anyone

And loads of people don't want to know this

 

[toxic_pus]

wow, I wonder why no debate was conducted on this topic.

Because it is an inconvenient truth, for many.

 

[dabong1]

Have the lives of muslims improved over the last 60 odd years under india is the real question.
By all indicators it has got worse and worse over the decades in every area.
Who where the people and organizations behind the report you mention in the Economic Times Article.....does it include the backing of the govt and its resources as the Sachar Committee report had or is it just a narrow group of people and intrests that are involved?

There have been many reports on indian-hindu bias towards muslims that have posted before on this forum but here one i dug up.

By Simon Denyer
NEW DELHI, Nov 6 (Reuters) - There are scarcely any Muslims working in India's 10,000-strong external intelligence agency, and neither Muslims nor Sikhs working as bodyguards for the country's top leaders, according to officials and media reports.

Mainly Hindu but officially secular India has its first Sikh prime minister, Manmohan Singh, but his community is not trusted enough to guard him, according to Outlook magazine this week.

The magazine said India's minority Muslims were not trusted by the security apparatus because of fears they could sympathise with the country's mainly Muslim neighbour and long-time foe Pakistan.

It said none had been recruited by the country's external spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), since 1969.

The domestic Intelligence Bureau (IB) had decided to recruit Muslims in the l990s, Outlook said, but the organisation still only had a "handful" of Muslim officers.

A government spokesman declined to comment on the report.

An intelligence official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Outlook was wrong to say there were no Muslims in RAW but right to say there were scarcely any.

Nor were there any working as bodyguards in the Special Protection Group (SPG) assigned to protecting current and former prime ministers and their families, he said.

"It is an unwritten rule in the SPG that they cannot recruit a Muslim or a Sikh," he told Reuters.

A.S. Dulat, who served as RAW chief from 1999 to 2000, said he did not recall coming across any Muslims in the organisation but could not confirm the Outlook report.

"If we do not have any Muslims obviously this is a handicap," he told Reuters. "If there are no Muslims, there must have been a reluctance to take them in. It is also not easy to find that many Muslims."

"NEED FOR MUSLIMS ACUTE"

Sikhs have not been used as bodyguards since Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her personal Sikh bodyguards in 1984 at the height of a Sikh insurgency, Outlook said.

Dulat said Sikhs had come "under a cloud" following Gandhi's murder, but found it hard to believe they would still be excluded from bodyguard duties today.

The status of India's estimated 140 million minority Muslims is the subject of intense debate.

Leaked excerpts of a specially commissioned report, due to be published this month, have shown Muslims are significantly underrepresented in government jobs and in the judiciary but overrepresented in the prison populations in many Indian states.

There are just 29,000 Muslims in India's 1.3-million strong armed forces, according to the defence ministry.

But Outlook magazine's report will also raise concerns about whether India's intelligence gathering will be effective without Muslim agents and officers.

"The need for Muslim officers in intelligence-gathering is acute," another former RAW chief, Girish Chandra Saxena, was quoted as saying. "There are very few people who have knowledge of Urdu or Arabic. The issue has to be addressed."

India is not alone in failing to recruit Muslims to the top levels of its security and intelligence apparatus.

America's Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) are still reportedly struggling to recruit Arabic, Urdu and Farsi speakers five years after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

Sikhs constitute nearly two percent of India's 1.1 billion population and the army is currently headed by General J.J. Singh, a Sikh.

(Additional reporting by Y.P. Rajesh)
Reuters AlertNet - Muslims excluded from India's spy agency - report

I got a good idea for you.......why dont you pretend to be muslim in gujrat.

 

[toxic_pus]

Since it is all about opportunities, here is an interesting article by Mr Nadeem Ul Haque, the former Vice Chancellor of PIDE, who touches upon this very issue, with Mr A.R.Rehman's Oscar feat as an allegory.
--------------------------
COMMENT: Jai Ho!
—Nadeem Ul Haque

We should be grateful that some Muslims remained in India and learned to compete. These Muslims are going to compete internationally and give us something to be proud of while our elites in Pakistan, who shun excellence and hard work, maintain their privilege and extravagance

Many of us watched the Oscars with a lump in our throats when AR Rehman was given a standing ovation by the American movie establishment. Rehman, a Muslim from a country we don’t consider friendly to Muslims, was eulogised by the Hollywood establishment, traditionally controlled by those of the Jewish persuasion. Rehman’s obvious talent overwhelmed them all. Jai ho!

There he stood, saying simple but powerful words: “I had a choice between love and hate. I chose love!” A simple Muslim of simple origins made us all proud with his talent. Jai ho!

What would he have been had he been in Pakistan?

He converted from Hinduism to Islam in 1989. Here, such a conversion would have put him in grave danger; quite possibly, some zealot might even have snuffed out his talent. Yet in his acceptance speech at the Oscars, at one point he said “Allah-o Akbar!” Jai AR Rehman!

For many years we have comforted ourselves by saying that Muslims have no opportunities in India and that Pakistan was made to give Muslims opportunities. Indeed, Pakistan has given some a lot of opportunities to get rich. There are numerous stories of excess wealth gained through government-dispensed licenses and plots, misuse of power, and other abuses of public office. Wealth has been created and the new class of rich shows off its Porsches, Range Rovers and other expensive toys. Their lifestyles could even dwarf some of the well-heeled rich and famous in India and the West. While we laud wealth and power, talent has no place in Pakistan.

The rest of us run around serving these princes. Talented musicians like AR Rehman play at the pleasure of this class. They play at their parties and the expensive weddings of their children; they play and the aristocracy hardly notices them. They do not even stay quiet during performances, pay no attention to the artists or give them the feeling of stardom. Because the stars are the aristocrats who managed to make their money through corruption and manipulation. Jai power!

In Pakistan, this would have been the fate of AR Rehman. He would have been a mere court musician. No Oscars, no recognition. Many a talented Pakistani musician has been forgotten. They leave behind some good music, of which we buy pirated versions. None is honoured. There are no Nur Jehan avenues or airports. No Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan squares, universities or buildings. No concerts; no awards and certainly no major movies that could get them to the Oscars.

We are all aware of how Bollywood is full of Indian Muslims. And they are widely respected in India. Darwin’s ideas seem to be at work: Indian Muslims are flowering under competition and showcasing major talent. Jai ho!

Darwin is right here too. We in Pakistan face no competition. Our path to success is rapid gain through actions such as raiding the exchequer, befriending the powerful, influence-peddling or power-brokering.

Lives of privilege — where the taxpayer picks up the tab for everything: from umrahs to polo, from mujras to free air travel, and from plots to stocks — have led to generational deterioration. Hard work is looked down upon and he who competes internationally is only a kammi kamin. Ministers, the well-connected and the powerful, are not supposed to dirty their hands or even consort with kammis like AR Rehman and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan.

Why? The answer is simple. Our leaders wanted to save themselves the hard work of competition. They wanted and got easy rents — handouts from the government. The army, the bureaucracy, the landed and the licensed industrialist all got it easily. They took no risks, they did not innovate, and they developed no products. They competed against no one for their ill-gotten gains, nor was there any accountability. Kids now see that the path to success is rents and influence, and that hard work and talent does not pay. After all, what did we do to Dr Abdus Salam? So why work hard?

We do produce talent, for no country of 200 million can be devoid of talent. Hashim Khan and his family, Imran Khan and his cousins, several cricketers and hockey players, the wrestler Bashir, and, of course, Abdus Salam. Now thankfully a few younger people like Mohsin Hamid and Daniyal Moinuddin are beginning to blaze some sort of trail. Will our musicians and artists have the opportunity to vie for the Oscars? No, for our elites are too busy destroying institutions, and talent cannot emerge without institutions.

These few talented people struggle against huge odds, with little recognition at home. But most of our younger generation is lost. Rich kids are given to pleasure and privilege, and the poor are turning to religion out of desperation.

We should be grateful that some Muslims remained in India and learned to compete. These Muslims are going to compete internationally and give us something to be proud of while our elites in Pakistan, who shun excellence and hard work, maintain their privilege and extravagance.

So thank you, AR Rehman. Jai Indian Muslims!

Nadeem Ul Haque is former Vice Chancellor of PIDE. Email: nhaque_imf@yahoo.com

 

[toxic_pus]

I got a good idea for you.......why dont you pretend to be muslim in gujrat.

What if I pretend to be a muslim, say in, Kerala or Tamil Nadu or Andhra Pradesh or West Bengal or Bihar or Uttar Pradesh or Maharashtra.

 

[notsuperstitious]

By all indicators it has got worse and worse over the decades in every area.
Who where the people and organizations behind the report you mention in the Economic Times Article.....does it include the backing of the govt and its resources as the Sachar Committee report had or is it just a narrow group of people and intrests that are involved?

Check out the organisations who worked on the report - not only sponsored by indian but also foreign governments.

And abt the article you published, its been published before and debated here. So i'll not respond to it again. I'm just trying to put forth some facts which may not be known and will add another snapshot of the larger picture.

 

[Bane Blade]

Well not so long ago around year 2007 I read this article I find it amusing how much things have changed in less than 2 years I guess India can change things round quite easily

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

and I think the BBC is the most neutral source available.

 

[wtf]

Well not so long ago around year 2007 I read this article I find it amusing how much things have changed in less than 2 years I guess India can change things round quite easily

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

and I think the BBC is the most neutral source available.

I have a pet theory for which I have only anecdotal evidence. Let me know what you think.

Indian Muslims are poor because they don't let the women work. In Pakistan apparently only 2% of women are employed in formal sector (Women in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Maybe things are similar in India. That would bring household income down a lot.

Sorry found a paper.
http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Jou...hani-N/JSS-17-3-219-08-660-Sarikhani-N-Tt.pdf

 

[Bane Blade]

I have a pet theory for which I have only anecdotal evidence. Let me know what you think.

Indian Muslims are poor because they don't let the women work. In Pakistan apparently only 2% of women are employed in formal sector (Women in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Maybe things are similar in India. That would bring household income down a lot.

Sorry found a paper.
http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Jou...hani-N/JSS-17-3-219-08-660-Sarikhani-N-Tt.pdf

I can't deny facts but I wish to ask you how much you know of a Muslim family setup secondly I also wish to ask you if you think that in India muslims were given an equal oppurtunity be honest the point remains clearly that minorities were given a tough time despite the secular claims.

Lastly the claim is why Muslims lag behind I don't doubt that they are poor but are they given a fair chance?

 

[sob]

I have a very simple theory about these figures. There is no conspiracy theory to look for. There is no Hindu-Muslim issue.

IT all comes down to EDUCATION.

If you look around us in India, you will see that as a percentage Christians, Sikhs, Parsis and other minorities have a much higher figure of educated population.

In the scheme of things in India the poorest regions like our BIMARU states have the lowest education level. Here almost 99% of the population is Hindu and Muslims.

In fact if figures of Gujrat and Maharashtra are not included then the average Household income and other indicators for the Muslims will fall quite sharply.