Are air defence systems like S400 Patriot etc worthless against a modern military?

[Pakistani Fighter]

50 of them are taken out by
Indian BMD

5 bhi karle to bohot baari baat hai

 

[Basel]

10 nukes wont be able to take out Delhi fully. Even if they are 100-150 kt.

If you thinking of KT nuclear weapons only then good luck as much more is at stake here.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Its good u pakistanis repeat this incorrect fact again and again its good for ur morale.

Aim-120 c5 were wasted that day ... Su-30 proved its worth ... Indian Air force is not a emotional teen girl its an organisation which
Gets trained for years and knows what is the best counter in these situations...

In a real BVR or WVR fight thr is still no real fighter in Paf that can actually go toe to toe against MKI.

If you are happy that F-16 fired multiple Aim120c5 from DMAX ranges then keep on enjoying coz in BVR fight thr r no kills recorded above 40-45 kms so far firing from full range on a 2D TVC MKI is stupidity.

You know the problem with you Indians is that you take yourself and your country way too seriously.
1- AIM 120, were not wasted they brought two Indian jets down. Your IAF was showing the pieces of the AIM which hits its target SU 30 and destroyed it. Why no proofs of other "wasted" AIM shown by IAF!!
2- What happened to the Training of years, if it couldn't be utilised at the hour!!
3- If PAF don't have a fighter comparable to MKi in BVR and WVR, why SU 30 left the theatre and IAF awarded them to evade the Aim!! And why ever since they are shy to come close to Pakistani border!!
4- if you think no kills above 40-50 kms ever recorded in BVR, why are you buying Rafale with Meteor!!

did you pull that information out of your sameer joshi's rear end? had f-16 been shot down villagers would have leaked those pictures by now! Its not indian occupied kashmir where their is a media black out for past 8 months and where civilians can be killed for taking pictures of the military.

All of abhi's mig-21 missiles have been recovered so which missile did abhi fire?

Answer to this Q is very simple.
Damn, the forum rules.

I repeat 10 nukes with ~100 kt wont kill a city like Delhi it might get thrown back a decade or two most.
India can take nukes and still recover specially when BMD Phase 1 is fully completed and Phase 2 is progressing well.

Now I see from where the stupidity is coming from that nuclear deterrence is redundant.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

u sure about that ?

yes out of 150 Pakistan is only allowed to fire 10 as per Indian rules while they can fire 100000.

 

[crankthatskunk]

yes out of 150 Pakistan is only allowed to fire 10 as per Indian rules while they can fire 100000.

Are they going to fire/throw the redundant Indians to make the count!!!

 

[Baba_Yaga]

I repeat 10 nukes with ~100 kt wont kill a city like Delhi it might get thrown back a decade or two most.
India can take nukes and still recover specially when BMD Phase 1 is fully completed and Phase 2 is progressing well.

Are you insane. A couple of nukes are more than enough to take care of Delhi. If you are looking at only the blast radius then you know nothing about nukes. The blast radius is simply the area where everything gets flattened out. The radiation spreads far far beyond that, probably hundreds of kilometers. Yea sure, structures outside the 3-5km radius will survive but most humans, animals and plant life will be devastated, and the ones that survive will be left with wounds far worse than death.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Are you insane. A couple of nukes are more than enough to take care of Delhi. If you are looking at only the blast radius then you know nothing about nukes. The blast radius is simply the area where everything gets flattened out. The radiation spreads far far beyond that, probably hundreds of kilometers. Yea sure, structures outside the 3-5km radius will survive but most humans, animals and plant life will be devastated, and the ones that survive will be left with wounds far worse than death.

Why bother? You should be thankful he didn't ask Pakistan to unload it's whole load of WMD's on Delhi alone. Which per his psyche will still have it(Delhi) running full strength in about a month. Remember they live in a constant and continuous NBC environment and they have $#!T load of cow manure to undo global nuclear posture/fallout. In insects terminology they represent roaches ... so to speak.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

The S-400 seems to be useful mostly in limited engagements otherwise there are many ways to take it down and most of tactics involved hypothetically seems to be more probable to happen during intense hostilities where various stealth aircratfs, drones, jammers and AGM-158s are used, it's not useless but...

 

[BON PLAN]

CAN THE S400 SHOOT DOWN A F22, F35, B2 ?

by Jeff Jaworski, military tech enthusiast

Before I start this answer it is by no means bashing stealth technology or bashing air defense technology. I am going to talk about advantages of modern air defenses and advantages of modern stealth aircraft. But I will 1st cover the advantages of modern air defenses than I will cover the advantages of modern stealth aircraft as well.

Advantages of Modern Air Defenses

1. S-400 Improved Radars

55Zh6M Nebo-M

480(0.0001 ÷ 1) ^.25 a .0001m2 target would be tracked at 48kms away. Just throwing this in because people a lot of people are using old S-400 data instead of the ones with newer radars. And there is an even newer version than this.

103Zh6 Niobium-M

This one uses X-band and UHF(looks different as well) while the Nebo-M uses S-band, L-band and VHF. It is alot newer than the Nebo-M so there is a possibility that it has better tracking performance than the Nebo-M but specs cant be found yet.

2. Other Surface Areas On Stealth Aircrafts

Source: [Aviation Week & Space Technology; 11/14/2005, page 27]

“From the front, the F/A-22's signature is -40dBm2 (the size of a marble) while the F-35's is -30 dBm2 (the size of a golf ball). The F-35 is said to have a small area of vulnerability from the rear because engineers reduced cost by not designing a radar blocker for the engine exhaust."

If there is an F-22 and F-16 looking directly at each other than it is possible for one aircraft to see -20 decibels(.01m2) while the other only sees -40 decibels(.0001m2). But a ground radar does not see the frontal aspect of an aircraft all the time it can also see a higher radar cross section when it looks at the belly of the F-22 where more surface area is exposed than the front of the aircraft. When an F-22 approaches an S-400 in order to keep that .0001m2 it will have to have its nose pointed directly at the radar beam of a mobile radar system. But this will change the flight patter of causing the F-22 to start diving and being brought to low altitudes. You do not want to go too low because if you do you will have to climb back up and now the radar beam of the mobile S-400 radar will start seeing for example 1m2 instead of .0001m2 because the entire body of the F-22 is exposed instead of the front where there is less surface area for radio waves to reflect from. In other words the firecontrol radars of the S-400 will not be seeing .0001m2 100% of the time of its entire flight!!!!!

3. Passive Tracking of Stealth Aircrafts

Monolit-B

Russian Coastal Recon System Packed in Compact Module

“The Monolit-B coast-based reconnaissance system of sea-surface/aerial situation in the module configuration is easily transported, fits for any chassis, quickly deployed, and can operate as a self-propelled or a stationary version. At the International Maritime Defense Show (IMDS-2019), Typhoon Instrument Engineering Plant (member of Morinformsistema-Agat) presented this system to the wide public for the first time.

Monolit-B system is designed for long-range over-the-horison detection and tracking of sea surface and aerial targets. Active radar of the system is capable to detect targets at the distance of up to 500 km, the passive one – up to 750 km.”

Moskva-1

1L267 Moskva-1

“The 1L267 Moskva-1 is a ground-based passive radar system that can see and track all airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers. As said the Moskva-1 does not emit radar signals only receives and analyses the outer ones remaining invisible to the enemy. The passive radar system is able to classify a target as a missile or an aircraft. Then it can transmit the target's coordinates to a nearby air defense system or to the command post. Besides, the Moskva-1 passive surveillance radar can guide air defense jets to the target while keeping their radar off staying invisible to the enemy. The truck-mounted 1L267 Moskva-1 produced by the KRET corporation is expected to enter service with the Russian Armed Forces before the end of 2015.”

Besides the S-400 using active radars, passive radars are able to pick up radar emissions in the fire control frequency, pick up HF radio waves from aircrafts using comms or pick up ghz signals from GPS updates of aircrafts, etc. Some can argue that stealth aircraft radars have Low Probability Intercept capabilities but there are other passive radars like Czech Republic claiming their VERA is able to pick up LPI emissions, Germany also made such a claim but I am not going to argue about credibility of other countries that much. But passive radars are able to track targets of any direction to pinpoint where the target is. Aircrafts can also use EW to suppress the tracking capabilities of SAM radars but doing so might also put you more at risk.

4. Ground Radars

Radar Shown At Army Expo 2019

Dimensions: 8x8m
Instrumental range: 6000km
Scan sector: +/- 20 degrees
Impulse power: 500kWt
Range vs 5m2: 3000km
Resolution: 0,6-30m in range, 45min angle
Errors: 3m range, 0,5min angle
Power consumption: 2MWt

We can use the same calculations as point 1 where radars like this make stealth aircraft look like passenger aircrafts on radar. The S-400 can use radars like this to track stealth aircrafts. Voronezh-SM will be even more powerful in the firecontrol frequencies than this presented radar.

5. Great Accuracy Improvements of Low Frequency Radars

Low frequency radars have greatly improved than what was used in the past. Here in this image they are showing the tracking accuracy of the S-400 VHF radar Nebo-SVU in comparison to the S-300 S-band firecontrol radar 64N6E. So instead of playing sharks and minnows in the ocean to tag players(1960s VHF radar) you now have a better chance to tag those some players at a Olympic pool(present day VHF radar). Or in other words tag aircraft's with missiles, if you are not feeling convinced that it can still be done than please continue reading my other points. Also this point can also relate to frequencies like UHF.

6. OTH(over the horizon) Radars

Container

Spot on: Russia to track future US missiles with upgraded over-the-horizon radar

“The 29B6 OTH radar was reported as deployed for trials near the town of Kovylkino in Mordovia in December 2013. This is where the receiving antennas and main processing equipment were located. The transmitting antennas were located outside Gorodets in Nizhny Oblast.

This was the first OTH radar capable of monitoring airspace up to a range of over 3,000km. Its coverage included airspace over Poland, Germany, and the Baltics all the way to Turkey, Syria and Israel.

Unlike the Duga, the Container's signal is reflected by the ionosphere only once, allowing for more accurate target detection. This allows it to track even small planes over Western Europe. The station can detect a mass launch towards Russia of cruise missiles, deployments of aircraft and hypersonic cruise missiles, when they are ready.

Upgrading the watchful eye

By 2018, the Container system was significantly improved. In early December, the Ministry of Defense announced that upgraded OTH radar is now on trial duty in Russia's Mordovia region. In six months, it is expected to be fully operational and enter regular service.

Basically, the same location was used for the deployment of a new OTH radar station that is far superior to the old Container (29B6). The new station has a larger detection zone. Now it is capable of discovering aerodynamic targets in a 240-degree arc, compared to 180 degrees for the old system. The computing systems and tracking stability have been improved significantly.

The new Container radar is capable of detecting and tracking over 5,000 air targets simultaneously. It can also track a small plane right on the runway, or detect launch and track the warhead of short- or intermediate-range ballistic missiles, which have smaller radar cross-sections than their intercontinental cousins.

HF radars have greatly improved For example in the past a passenger airplane would be seen as a 2–4km target on radar.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a261727.pdf

“A typical aircraft radar cross-section varies from 100 m2 to 1,000 m2 depending on the type of aircraft ind on the observing frequency. The illuminated ground underneath the aircraft, contributes backscattered energy at the same range as the targc. and has a cross-section of some 10^7 to 10^9 m2 or 10^4 to 10^6 times larger than an aircraft with a 1000 m2 radar cross-section. The concept is that if this large ground area cannot be seen by the radar, then it certainly is not possible for the radar to see a relatively small aircraft. At this point, a reasonable question is; How can an OTH-B radar detect such a small target as an aircraft against the much larger signal returned by the ground below the target? Tie simple answer is Doppler frequency processing. Since the aircraft is moving at a typical speed of 1,000 km/hour, it is approaching the radar with a velocity which is some significant fraction of this speed, depending on the angle between the flight path and the radar look-direction. The frequency received from the target is shifted upward when compared to the original transmitted frequency. This shift in frequency after scatter from a moving object is the same as the frequency shift of the whistle on a moving train as observed by a fixed bystander.”

Radar Basics

“It consisted of an array of monopoles 660 meters (2,165 feet) long, with the monopoles spaced at about 50 meters (164 feet), corresponding to half the wavelength of the radar's 3 MHz operating band. The array has a field of view of 120 degrees and can track targets to the limit of Canada's 370 kilometer (200 nautical miles) oceanic economic exclusion zone. It can obtain positions accurate to within hundreds of meters. Raytheon stated that a similar array could be used to track low-flying cruise missiles if it operated at a frequency of 15 to 20 MHz.”

Now the accuracy of the container radar is currently classified and it is not the only OTH radar project being developed. The company that is making these radars is also utilizing research for space weather and determining ionospheric conditions.

Competencies

Competencies

7. Space Radars

https://itech.aorti.ru/upload/iblock/825/it_22_compressed.pdf

“director of the RTI them. A. L. Mints, Alexander Osipov. - The institute has the necessary scientific, technical, software-algorithmic and technological for
affairs for the creation on a single structure of the latest BRKK for spacecraft. In the model of the BRLC, which was created at the institute, important are technologies for raising informativity: the use of innovative probing signal designs, the method of expanding the shooting range, innovative methods for detecting moving objects, superresolution algorithms, methods for processing and integrating radar data. - The basic principles of radar are well known to scientists around the world. It is very difficult to come up with qualitatively new solutions in this area, but we succeeded. With the help of a supercomputer, we have developed deep mathematical analysis algorithms that allow us to detect moving targets. This is a very difficult task that no one has yet solved for us, says Anatoly Leukhin. - The fact is that when we look at the Earth with a locator, we see not only rivers, oceans and cities, but also a huge amount of interference. Because of them, it is sometimes very difficult to see even moving objects. The ability to track moving objects is an essential step in the development of radar. This technology can be widely used for both military and civilian purposes. For example, to create systems aircraft from space.”

В РТИ создан экспериментальный лётно-испытательный комплекс «ЭЛИК» с искусственным интеллектом

“In the interests of the task of monitoring the air situation at KIMS, software and algorithmic support is being developed for detecting and measuring the characteristics of air and surface objects, including at extremely low altitudes.

KIMS implements complex adaptive algorithms for the generation and processing of radar images from radar holograms using artificial intelligence. They detect moving surface and air objects by isolating from the radar a number of informative features that are significant for various consumers (nature management, oceanographic observations, including control of ice conditions).

An important factor in the efficiency of KIMS is the ability to calibrate it according to the results of field tests of prototypes and prototype ballistic missile systems using the flight test base ELIK.”

Быть 3D: новые локаторы создадут трехмерную картинку цели

“At the same time, one should not expect that in the coming years all traditional radars will be replaced by photon radars - the capabilities of modern radars based on microwave paths are not completely exhausted.

Recall that the RTI also developed the Elik flight test complex, thanks to which radar stations will be able to classify aircraft of air, surface, low-flying and space objects.

Real-time radars will be able to tell the operator what type of aircraft, cruise missile, satellite or ship appeared on the screen of the station.”

detecting and tracking aircrafts will also be done by satellites so the S-400 can use more sources when this information is sent to command centers.

8. Sensor Fusion

Sensor Fusion - an overview

“Sensor fusion is the process of merging data from multiple sensors such that to reduce the amount of uncertainty that may be involved in a robot navigation motion or task performing.”

To put this as a very simple explanation for anyone to understand lets say we are not using any fire-control frequencies, lets say I am using point 3, point 5, point 6 and point 7. I am blindfolded in a room(robbed of using firecontrol frequencies to track a stealth target) and I am tasked to grab a cake which is on top of a radio and I have to confirm that I have actually grabbed a radio and cake. Point 6 is my taste, point 3 is my ears, point 5 is my touch, point 7 is my smell. I can find and confirm that I have grabbed a cake and radio without my blind folds or confirmed that my fire-control radar locked on a stealth target but I am unable to use either. I start to hear a radio and start walking in that direction, smelling the cake I walk in that same direction so that I wont be that far off. Now I still do not know if there is a cake on top of a radio. I move my hands and feel something hard than feel something soft on top. My hearing and touch confirms that there is a radio. My touch and taste confirm that there was a cake and what flavor it was as well. Using all 4 of my senses I have completed the task of finding and confirming that there was a radio and cake.

If I used just one of those senses I would never completed my task of finding and confirming that there was a cake and radio. My VHF target acquisition box from 100 nautical miles away is 5,500 meters in height, 200 meters in width and 1,600 meters in length just like what is shown in point 5. Using the data from the other 3 points processing their target results, than a computer solves the average of those 4 points of where the target might actually be (can include 5 with UHF radar), it ends up being 1000 meters in height, 100 meters in width and 400 meters in length. A stealth aircraft being in just the VHF box is way difficult for a missile to hit it than it is for the missile to hit a stealth aircraft in a smaller target acquisition box using data from multiple points determining target position.

9. Host Radars on Missiles

Angular Size Calculator

If we look at point 5 the 9B-1103M2 host radar to get the 1.6km length covered for the .003m2 target from 2kms away would need a 44 degree beam azimuth. The elevation angle to cover the 5.5km height from 2kms away for the .003m2 target would need to be 108 degrees. This is just one of their medium air to air missiles.

9M96M2

48N6DM

40N6

The short and long range missiles for the S-400 listed here have host radars, while the medium range missile relies on radar guidance from the air defense. Its also one of the reasons why the S-500 and SM-6 are listed to have OTH capabilities because they can still track and engage aerial targets beyond what their SAM radars can see. Just because a SAM is not using firecontrol bands to track you does not mean you wont get hit by these missiles.

10. SAMs use EW as well

I am not really going to go into a very long list of all the EW systems they have because they have plenty so I will try to give a quick brief after this source.

Russian electronic warfare specialists test new method of jamming enemy aircraft

“During the experiment at the Sverdlovsk and Chebarkul practice ranges, servicemen used the Borisoglebsk [electronic counter-measures] system to conduct radio-electronic reconnaissance. By penetrating the channels of communications systems’ control, they created interference in the operation of ground and airborne radio communications employed by a notional enemy," the statement says.

"The teams of the Krasukha [electronic counter-measures] system suppressed the signal of an onboard radar installed on an aircraft and also the radio channels of controlling unmanned aerial vehicles. The activation of the Zhitel hardware made it possible to shut out satellite communications equipment, navigation and cellular communications systems within a radius of 30 km," the statement reads.

The new method allows electronic warfare specialists to create "vacuum" space shielded from the impacts of drones, airborne radars, radio-controlled high-explosive munitions and cruise missiles, the District’s press office explained.”

They can suppress HF frequencies which pilots communicate with each other or use data-links from 3000kms away, Peresvet and other laser projects they have in development that can blind satellites or infrared systems with, use krasukha-4 to jam LEOs, etc. They have a multitude of sophisticated EW systems that you would at times you definitely wont find from other western or eastern countries.

11. Photonic Radars and Nuclear Reactors to Enhance SAM Radar Capabilities for Future References

Jeff Jaworski's answer to Is the S500 or S400 of Russia more effective in terms of defense than the latest breakthrough laser defense system of Israel? Or does Russia already has this kind of laser defense decades ahead of Israel?

Jeff Jaworski's answer to What does the development of photonic radar mean for stealth aircraft?

Mobile nuclear reactors and photonic radars will be fielded in the future soon. Photonic radars according to Chinese in my answer source link lowers the background noise 100 times when tracking a target like 1m2 at 400kms becomes a .01m2 target instead. And a source from KRET says mobile radars will have they same capabilities as tracking targets as if they were ground radars. And the introduction of nuclear reactors can also enhance radar performances to increase power ratings that diesel fuel generators cannot produce.

RTI is not only developing photonic radars but also this. https://tass.com/defense/1111675

“The RTI Joint Stock Company, a developer and producer of high-tech products, will create new radars that operate in terahertz frequency range and are capable of pinpointing the smallest drone, RTI CEO Pavel Laptayev told TASS.

"The terahertz technology [featuring radio wave length below one millimeter] will be converted into a product within five years. These radars can detect small drones, and function in space," Laptayev explained.

According to the CEO, the submillimeter radar enables a beam to be aimed on a relatively small object with extraordinary precision, impossible for other ranges, and identify its shape, material, speed and trajectory.

Laptayev admitted that RTI managed to achieve significant success in the terahertz range only in 2019, with the company mastering the components for such stations, and learning to identify objects and materials. According to the CEO, the RTI specialists now work on radar software that would swiftly and effectively classify a target and relay this information to the operator.

"This task will take more time than creating a prototype, because it requires accumulating data and implementing machine learning methods," the CEO specified.

I hope stealth aviation fans do not feel discouraged just yet after reading all of this and taking all this information in.

Advantages of Modern Stealth Aircraft

1. Stealth

This is definitely not a useless feature to have since we have been developing such aircrafts like the F-117 with an RCS of .001m2 to about like 20 years later getting .0001m2 for the B-2 or F-22. We are also not the only ones developing stealth aircrafts so this is by no means a useless technology if we are still pursuing it and everyone besides us is beginning to do it as well. This allows our aircrafts to get closer to utilizing SEAD or DEAD operations and giving SAMs a less reaction time until they get hit. We can slowly but surely start overwhelming short range to medium range missiles until we get to the long range missile defenses within a integrated defense network. Even until this day we continue to improve on stealth technology with projects like the B-21.

2. Plans of Attacks

We can coordinate our attacks because we know where the SAMs are positioned. And it can or cant be difficult for SAM systems(since this is classified) to pick up LPI communications.

3. Weapons of Choice

We can overwhelm some SAM systems with glide bombs which can be the GBU-39 or SPEAR. Or instead of getting into the risk of getting to close using those options launching a hypersonic air to ground missile in development can possibly destroy long range air defense systems which will than leave short and medium range air defenses vulnerable to attacks. HARM missiles can be used but passive sensors on the F-35 have to also be smart enough to distinguish from an actual radar from a decoy emitter. Stealth aircrafts from the past did not have a multitude of options as these stealth aircraft's do. Launching decoys is another option to overwhelm SAMs but that depends if they have decent passive sensors to discriminate decoys if they are high or low fidelity. While HF or OTH radars can discriminate decoys as well so it depends on mission requirements.

4. EW on Aircrafts

GaN AESA jammers provide the capabilities to now jam UHF and VHF frequencies. Jammers as of now cannot jam or read and analyze these frequencies. For example the F-35 Barracuda Jammer does jam at low frequencies but it does at high frequencies. The aircraft will know how close it can get before it gets tracked but the aircraft as of now is unaware if lower frequencies are bouncing off the aircraft. The Growler can help suppress those frequencies to allow the F-35 to get closer to SAMs.

5. Aircrafts of Choice

Some are meant for bombing roles, others multi-roles, EW, air to air roles, etc. For example you can use F-16s to launch hypersonic external missiles because they can be out of the reach for SAMs. AWACs can also be used for farther detection and that can support the roles of other aircrafts. Drones can be of help but that depends on EW systems, microwave weapons like Ranets-E, etc.

6. Using Altitudes

You can launch missiles from aircrafts without the need for stealth by 1. depending how far you are. 2. depends on your altitude. To me 4th gen aircraft can use this and still avoid getting hit by SAMs. Missile technology just keeps on improving. But you never want to get too low because that can make you an easy target and for reference look at what the Houthi rebels are doing to Saudis.

Avoid Fools That Over-hype One Field of Expertise Being Way Ahead of the Other.

1. The U.S. and Russia are ongoing developing countries such as they just continue making progress after progress to deter threats from the past and maybe into the future. Long range air defenses are still being made, and stealth aircraft's are still being made. If one stops making developments or improvements than there would be no point in continuing such developments or even bother making improvements.
2. Other example is using one source of propaganda to make the entire decision of a field of expertise being useless. Beautiful example is the Syrian tomahawk strike where one side says everything hit and the other says majority has missed. So we are presented to idiots on the same side of the coin with different interests saying U.S. missiles are useless and the other saying SAMs are useless. To me the best sources are when 2 sides are very close to agreeing with something so here are 2 examples. Russians claim 80–90% of israel’s missiles have been intercepted, while Israel said the 1st wave of F-16s failed while the 2nd wave of F-35s made progress, this is convinces me that pantsirs can be pretty sufficient. The other example is that Israel says the Patriots is horrible when they used it, while other experts said it was not. Than later we find out that the PACS-4 development has been outsourced to Israel’s company Rafael instead of Raytheon continuing it tells me its a pretty bad air defense.
3. Countries have different sources that help support their long range air defenses as do with stealth aircraft's. For example Israel modifying the wings for more stealth and the software shows that Israel’s F-35s might better suited for certain missions than compared to the U.S. F-35s. Or the S-400 Turkey has might be more easier to overcome because they are using older radars and are using KORAL jammer with a 150km range, while the S-400 Russia has might being using very new radars and have a Krasukha jammer with a 300km range, etc, etc.
4. Avoid the I know it all people with public sources. Most of the capabilities are not known to the public eye so you can never determine if one field is ahead of the other.

Consider those 4 very important points before you decide to be very supportive of one field over the other.