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American trainee talks of ‘pretty different’ culture of batmen serving officers

I think the correct account by that 1LT does not include much about the caste system in IA, afterll, she was just training for para rigging for 52 days, what can she possibly know about that system?

Thing is, batman or orderly system were infact still in used by US military, abeit senior officer, not junior office like a 1LT. Put together the fact that she was indeed a guest of IA, she may well receive some special privilege to go with, like when I was doing part of my jump training in Italian airborne school, they have an attaché that took care of my special needs.
she pointed to class system, and I think she is right in her description. 50 days is enough for a perceptive and inquisitive person to understand a system.

The gap between officer and non officers is too big in India, in perks, privilege and social status. Do you guys have different mess for officers and non officers?
 
she pointed to class system, and I think she is right in her description. 50 days is enough for a perceptive and inquisitive person to understand a system.

The gap between officer and non officers is too big in India, in perks, privilege and social status. Do you guys have different mess for officers and non officers?

It is very different in the US military, we don't use mess hall in barrack anymore, we had replaced them with a food court structure PX. But we do still have Officer, NCO and enlist club. We also have more maintenance money, and different living quarter

The US military has actually doing everything they can to pull the rank closer between Officer and Enlisted, but the thing is, there are always going to be gap, simply because if there are no different status and privilege, enlisted man will not respect the officers authority...

I can imagine what kind of gap you are talking about in the IA
 
she pointed to class system, and I think she is right in her description. 50 days is enough for a perceptive and inquisitive person to understand a system.

The gap between officer and non officers is too big in India, in perks, privilege and social status. Do you guys have different mess for officers and non officers?

How do you propose to change that? For a country like India, that is inevitable, at least as of now. Remember, we have a very manpower (staffing, to be gender neutral) intensive army, which is heavily infantry oriented. It is frikking 1.2 million strong, about two and a half as big as the US army. How can a country like India afford to bring more parity in pay and perks - by raising that of the jawans, or lowering that of the officers? The former is not possible, the latter is not desirable.

If our army was only as big as the British army, we could afford to pay them all nearly as well as the officers. But that is not our situation, for us the number of infantry soldiers trained in mountain warfare alone would account for about five times the size of the British army.

This skewed distribution of priviledges is actually a reflection of Indian society itself, that well educated middle and upper class people expect and get a much more comfortable life than a relatively poor and undereducated person. In most middle class homes, there would be a maid or servant (if not more) to do the household chores, and prepare the beds and iron the clothes of everybody, including children and teenagers.. (Contrast that with the USA, where most people do their own chores at home.) I am not justifying our society, just observing it.

Coming to pay and perks, the average Indian jawan makes a good income for the background that most of them come from. You might notice that the Indian army does not face a shortage of jawans, but does face an acute shortage of officers - because relatively undereducated people of modest means find the pay scale of jawans satisfactory, but educated middle class fellows find much better opportunities in the priavte sector than a career as an officer in the army. It is the mid ranking officer class that is dissatisfied with renumertion, not the jawans or the generals.

In short, the army is a reflection of society; the educted middle class expects and gets a much more comfortable life than the uneducated or undereducated lower class.

I don't see that changing in the near future, because we need the officers to be highly educated and competent enough to utilize sophisticated technologies, like signals, electronic warfare, communications etc. Not to mention the doctors and engineers and people of other specialized skills. The officers cannot be mere riflemen. On the other hand, we don't need the jawans to be university educated, that would be a waste of potential.

Also, as @jhungary points out, a certain gap has to be maintained between the officers and jawans (in matters of dining areas and such) so that the chain of command is always respected.

All that being said, I want the sahayak system to go, or at least be curtailed to include only very senior officers. Junior and mid ranking officers in their 20s and 30s and 40s should make their own beds and do their own chores. Discipline is not only about marching in formation. Only general ranked officers should get sahayaks.
 
its common among hindus,,just like caste discrimination,,,high caste low caste,,,,high rank low rank,,,,
 
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I guess all of us would agree that after all the blah blah that we might engage in as to what is right or wrong this system referred to in the article was devised by the Britishers to undermine the capability of the Indian soldiers and to show them their right place since it had a covert racist agenda but was disguised as a disciplinary measure.Just imagine the psychological impact it would have on the mind of the soldiers irrespective of the post that he holds when he has to clean and sweep his superior officers room and even prepare his bed!!!A soldier should be a soldier and should not be induced into doing the household chores of others. Jai Hind!!
 
SOURCE: The Telegraph.

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An American army officer’s account of her time training in Agra has given a glimpse into the class-system in the Indian Army and has stoked once again the debate of assigningsahayaks — or batmen — who are often required to do personal work of officers.

First Lieutenant Laura Condyles’ account, narrated to the US army’s official publicity wing, suggests she had a grand time during her 52-day course at the Para Training School in Agra in August-September.

But the insight it shares — that the Indian Army differentiates sharply between officers and soldiers and that it operates with poor infrastructure — have made senior officials here take note.

There are exceptions to the sahayak rule — not all officers ask the batmen to do personal work — but that does not shine through in Condyles’ narration.

The Indian Army’s structure “is pretty different,” the US army official wire release quotes the 25-year-old parachute rigger-qualified officer as saying.

“When you are an officer on post, they cook your meal for you, or they deliver it to your room. They clean your bathroom for you every day. They mop your floors in your room every day. They even make your bed for you every day, and they do your laundry every single day,” says Condyles.

The observations make Indian Army officers touchy. Former army chief General V.K. Singh had proposed to do away with the sahayak system and replace them with civilians. He had argued it was not proper for professional soldiers to be forced to do such work.

A parliamentary standing committee has also recommended the abolition of the system dating back to the British Indian Army. The British have done away with it.

But Condyles says that life was difficult in Agra, even with the conveniences. “I had electricity about 40 to 50 per cent of the time,” she says in the account.

The parachute rigger-qualification course trains soldiers in lashing and packaging equipment, including food and hardware, for airdrops. Many of the Indian Army’s forward posts — such as those in Siachen — are “air-maintained”.

Laura Condyles said she was the first foreign officer to qualify with an ‘I” grade — meaning she showed skills good enough for her to be an instructor. “I got it! I’m the first foreign officer that’s ever gotten the “i” grade before, so that was pretty neat!”

“I loved it! I had a great time,” said Condyles. “The cool thing was I’m the first American that went to the course. They had other foreign officers that went to this course before too, one from Sri Lanka, one from Ethiopia, from Nepal, and Pakistan.”

The American officer is wrong when she says a Pakistani was also part of the course. The Indian Army has no personnel exchange programme with Pakistan.

“They drop live animals,” she was quoted. “They put chickens and goats on a platform and drop them in for food”.

Condyles said cows would often enter the air force station in Agra and even the hangars in which the equipment was parachute-rigged. Among the rations dropped during the course were bagged items, tent supplies, bottles, hay, medical provisions, fish, meat on hoof, meat dressed, frozen meat, chicken dressed, chicken alive, fruits and vegetables, and fuel, oil and lubricants.

“At their motor pools they have temples. So, before you get into a military vehicle and drive away, you have to pray to the gods.” Condyles said.
WOW these people even drop live Animals from air for food in Siachin!!!

Man these Indians r real sick.
 
WOW these people even drop live Animals from air for food in Siachin!!!

Man these Indians r real sick.

Why not; Charlie?
We have Flying Goats and Flying Horses; so we drop them from the Air in Siachen. They practise all the right HALO sky-diving moves till they reach the ground. Then the Soldiers on the ground practise beheading them with their Khukris. All very proper Kosher and Halal procedures.
In the Army its called Fresh MOH (Meat On Hoof); no stale frozen stuff for them. :no:
Geddit now? :D
 
Why not; Charlie?
We have Flying Goats and Flying Horses; so we drop them from the Air in Siachen. They practise all the right HALO sky-diving moves till they reach the ground. Then the Soldiers on the ground practise beheading them with their Khukris. All very proper Kosher and Halal procedures.
In the Army its called Fresh MOH (Meat On Hoof); no stale frozen stuff for them. :no:
Geddit now? :D
Thats Barbaric.
 
I think the correct account by that 1LT does not include much about the caste system in IA, afterll, she was just training for para rigging for 52 days, what can she possibly know about that system?

Thing is, batman or orderly system were infact still in used by US military, abeit senior officer, not junior office like a 1LT. Put together the fact that she was indeed a guest of IA, she may well receive some special privilege to go with, like when I was doing part of my jump training in Italian airborne school, they have an attaché that took care of my special needs.
Uhm....no, not in use in the US Army. Were do you get your info?
 
Uhm....no, not in use in the US Army. Were do you get your info?

Lol I actually did served as a general aid once (to a female officer no less)

It wasn't the same caliber, but I did pick up and drop off the officer kids to school and run errand like taking laundry from the dry cleaner
 

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