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Al Biruni

Hamza913

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Al Biruni was a famous Muslim polymath who visited Pakistan in the 11th century. It was here (near Jhelum to be precise) where he took measurements to determine the Earth's circumference (he wasn't far off from the actual value):

https://historypak.com/al-behruni/

https://www.britannica.com/biography/al-Biruni


He also discussed how Hindus are Muslims are vastly different to one another, and how during his lifetime, there was great animosity between the two communities:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5949073_001/

A stamp was issued in Pakistan to honour his legacy:

1973-16a.JPG
 
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The most famous Muslim scientists/ philosophers/ Astronomers/ Chemists/ Mathematicians, Doctors, Poets etc were all Persian/ Iranian. From Hafiz to Romi to Firdausi, Khwarizmi, Bokhari to Razi, Avicenna to a dozen others. All Iranians, and household personalities in Iran today. No need to blow our trumpet here but this is a fact. Qoran's first tafseer and the compilation of all Hadees were done by Persians. So was the Moghal empire in India, backed by Persia. All the Royals in the courts were Persian aristocrats. Everyone in Moghal empire spoke Persian. The architects of almost all Moghal monuments were Iranian architects, including the Taj Mahal. The Greeks and Romans took a lot of this knowledge to Europe.

Now I guess its fashionable to associate the Muslim world with this too.....lol

Persian culture has influenced many people.
 
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The most famous Muslim scientists/ philosophers/ Astronomers/ Chemists/ Mathematicians, Doctors, Poets etc were all Persian/ Iranian. From Hafiz to Romi to Firdausi, Khwarizmi, Bokhari to Razi, Avicenna to a dozen others. All Iranians, and household personalities in Iran today. No need to blow our trumpet here but this is a fact. Qoran's first tafseer and the compilation of all Hadees were done by Persians. So was the Moghal empire in India, backed by Persia. All the Royals in the courts were Persian aristocrats. Everyone in Moghal empire spoke Persian. The architects of almost all Moghal monuments were Iranian architects, including the Taj Mahal. The Greeks and Romans took a lot of this knowledge to Europe.

Now I guess its fashionable to associate the Muslim world with this too.....lol

Arabs and Turks have done some pretty excellent things too for Muslims.

Yes, as said before, Persian culture has influenced many, even Pakistan's national anthem is in Farsi.

Many Mughal monuments were designed or made by locals, e.g Wazir Khan Masjid was made by a Punjabi who was part of the Mughal nobility.

It's always been associated with the Muslim world, and for good reason too. Prior to embracing Islam, Persians were nowhere near this influential or as intellectually powerful. It only happened by the grace of Allah (The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful).

This is the best part from the post.

Well it's not like Jhelum is in Hindustan.
 
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When the next Muslim renaissance rolls in, and it eventually will, Iran will be leading it! We are the scientific leader among so called Muslim countries. You can look it up. The bulk of thesis and research papers are already disproportionately attributed to Iran. We were already the top dog in our category way back in the decade, now we must be far higher ranked. Most importantly, our millions of women are getting higher education and they outnumber their male Iranian counterparts by quite a margin:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20291-iran-is-top-of-the-world-in-science-growth/

Arabs and Turks have done some pretty excellent things too for Muslims.

Yes, as said before, Persian culture has influenced many, even Pakistan's national anthem is in Farsi.

Many Mughal monuments were designed or made by locals, e.g Wazir Khan Masjid was made by a Punjabi who was part of the Mughal nobility.

It's always been associated with the Muslim world, and for good reason too. Prior to embracing Islam, Persians were nowhere near this influential or as intellectually powerful. It only happened by the grace of Allah (The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful).



Well it's not like Jhelum is in Hindustan.
 
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When the next Muslim renaissance rolls in, and it eventually will, Iran will be leading it!

No offence, but I find that hard to believe. Not a single person from Iran has won a Nobel Prize for any Science (Pakistan, Turkey and Egypt have all bagged 1 each in comparison).

If Iran wants to become a scientific powerhouse, stopping the brain drain would be an excellent place to start.

Also, Iran's influence among the Muslim world these days is quite limited since it is no longer Sunni.
 
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This is the best part from the post.
Why? He said it in coterminous sense. What most people here don't consider is how we reify our understanding of the past. To a large degree this process is subjective and is often influenced by the period a piece is written.

Now I want you to reflect on this. Most people's understanding of Al-Biruni's work is as often the case thanks to British. The English translation which has gone on to inform most people was translated in 1910 by Englishman Edward Sachau and the edition in English was published in London.

WUOIr8c.png


Theefore this translation is going to be done according to the reality of 1910. At that time British presided over a colony that covered the region Al-Biruni had explored. Since this entire region was named by British as "India" when the writer translated it he did so using the reality in 1910. So look at the original title of the book. It emphatically does not say "India" or even use the word "India" because it simply had not even gained currency 1,000 years ago. Therefore Al-Biruni would not have used the name "India" as much as he would not use the name "Pakistan" as both after his book was written and certainly both names were alien to him in 1038.

So what name did Al Biruni use? Well his title is "Tahqiq ma li-l-hind". Now I don't see India or Pakistan being used. Edward Sachau translated this work in 1910. At that time the British had this region conquered into British India. So in 1910 Mr Sachau naturally had to translate "Hind". And he translated that according 1910 and not 2018. Had he done that in 2018 he might have translated "Hind" as South Asia because it covers Pakistan, India, Bangladesh. For instance the World Bank in it's report on poverty for India/Pakistan/Bangladesh use the term 'South Asia'. because it is for 2018. If the same report was published in 1910 it would have said "India". And in 1038 it was "Hind".

https://www.worldbank.org/en/region/sar


But because this book is the English translation done in 1910 when the region was a British colony called "India" he translated Al Biruni's "Hind" into India. If I translated that book in 2018 I would update it to the present reality which is "Al Biruni's South Asia". And if any of you want to be precise and pedantic then please don't use the name India either because Biruni never used it. It was a Englishman in 1910 who foisted that term into our discourse.

Thus if India can be used retrospectively so can Pakistan. And 'India' was used retrospectively to translate "Hind" when the name "India" had no currncy in 1030.Bot the terms India/Pakistan woukd have been alien to Al-Biruni's ears.

Therefore it is essential that we use the term 'ancient Pakistan' as much as possible so that we can reify the concept as much as 'India' has been reified by colonial English writers from last century. If we don't it will never gain currency and the English abstraction of our region from the colonial times will remain dominant. Our understanding our history and ourselves will remain enslaved to British colonial rulers. Is that what we want?

@UnitedPak
@django
@Talwar e Pakistan
@Taimur Khurram
@Cybernetics
@maximuswarrior
@war&peace
@PAKISTANFOREVER
 
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He was a great scholar. He translated Vedas Upanishads and Gita in Persian. Indian Knowledge spread in world by his work.

Why? He said it in coterminous sense. What most people here don't consider is how we reify our understanding of the past. To a large degree this process is subjective and is often influenced by the period a piece is written.

Now I want you to reflect on this. Most people's understanding of Al-Biruni's work is as often the case thanks to British. The English translation which has gone on to inform most people was translated in 1910 by Englishman Edward Sachau and the edition in English was published in London.

WUOIr8c.png


Theefore this translation is going to be done according to the reality of 1910. At that time British presided over a colony that covered the region Al-Biruni had explored. Since this entire region was named by British as "India" when the writer translated it he did so using the reality in 1910. So look at the original title of the book. It emphatically does not say "India" or even use the word "India" because it simply had not even gained currency 1,000 years ago. Therefore Al-Biruni would not have used the name "India" as much as he would not use the name "Pakistan" as both after his book was written and certainly both names were alien to him in 1038.

So what name did Al Biruni use? Well his title is "Tahqiq ma li-l-hind". Now I don't see India or Pakistan being used. Edward Sachau translated this work in 1910. At that time the British had this region conquered into British India. So in 1910 Mr Sachau naturally had to translate "Hind". And he translated that according 1910 and not 2018. Had he done that in 2018 he might have translated "Hind" as South Asia because it covers Pakistan, India, Bangladesh. For instance the World Bank in it's report on poverty for India/Pakistan/Bangladesh use the term 'South Asia'. because it is for 2018. If the same report was published in 1910 it would have said "India". And in 1038 it was "Hind".

https://www.worldbank.org/en/region/sar


But because this book is the English translation done in 1910 when the region was a British colony called "India" he translated Al Biruni's "Hind" into India. If I translated that book in 2018 I would update it to the present reality which is "Al Biruni's South Asia". And if any of you want to be precise and pedantic then please don't use the name India either because Biruni never used it. It was a Englishman in 1910 who foisted that term into our discourse.

Thus if India can be used retrospectively so can Pakistan. And 'India' was used retrospectively to translate "Hind" when the name "India" had no currncy in 1030.Bot the terms India/Pakistan woukd have been alien to Al-Biruni's ears.

Therefore it is essential that we use the term 'ancient Pakistan' as much as possible so that we can reify the concept as much as 'India' has been reified by colonial English writers from last century. If we don't it will never gain currency and the English abstraction of our region from the colonial times will remain dominant. Our understanding our history and ourselves will remain enslaved to British colonial rulers. Is that what we want?

@UnitedPak
@django
@Talwar e Pakistan
@Taimur Khurram
@Cybernetics
@maximuswarrior
@war&peace
@PAKISTANFOREVER

Indian is a Name Given by Britishers to Bharat Varsha. So If they use India or Bharat, both are same.
 
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Indian is a Name Given by Britishers to Bharat Varsha. So If they use India or Bharat, both are same.
Where is the source for this? And why should we be locked into their world view; and even that from the colonial times. You can insist on being mental slaves to them but we will write our own history.The British colonial officials were competent people but they were not gods and what they wrote is not bible.

It's this simple. If you look at maps from 1000, 1500, 1800, 1850 and 2018 they are differant. Reality changes and we have to adjust to that. Why should we live by reality as written in 1910 when we are in 2018? And if you insist on be precise why not go with "Al Biruni's Hind"?
 
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Where is the source for this? And why should we be locked into their world view. and even that from the colonial times. You can insist on being mental slaves to them but we will write our own history.The British colonial officials were competent people but they were not gods and what they wrote is not bible.

Bible is a ferry tells which even does not carry any moral massage like Panch tantra stories. So do not give the example of Bible though that is used popularly.
 
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