Ahmadi Muslims are killed in Pakistan but welcomed in Canada.

[jetti]

Adding the word 'Muslims' with Ahmedis makes complete mockery of Islam and Muslims, they the Ahmedis completely disobey islam by bringing another prophet while the quran it self says that Muhammad is last and final messenger of God, if any prophet will come again after this will be Jesus (pbuh) as Messiah.

This being said they should not be killed rather they should be told to completely disassociate themselves with Islam and live as a minority like hindus with no linking to Islam whatsoever!

In the 5 pillars which is the only requirement to call oneself a muslim, is to believe in Mohd as a prophet and NOT the finality.
So it is legit for ahmadis to call themselves muslims if they believe in 5 pillars.

 

[S.Y.A]

In the 5 pillars which is the only requirement to call oneself a muslim, is to believe in Mohd as a prophet and NOT the finality.
So it is legit for ahmadis to call themselves muslims if they believe in 5 pillars.

in Quran Prophet Muhammad is declard "Seal of Prophets" Khatim un Nabiyyin, and just like a seal is placed at the end of a document and to finish something so was Prophet Muhammad sent as a final prophet. And we take into the Ahadith as well not just Quran: "My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets."
(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

"I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me."
(Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta')

and now the Ayats of Quran: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."
(The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:40)

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)

so no more addition in religion is acceptable by any mirza ghulam qadiyani or any other person

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."
(The Holy Quran, An-Nisa, 4:59)

the bold is to establish the authenticity of following of Ahadith of Prophet Muhammad

 

[jetti]

testing as i cant see page 2

in Quran Prophet Muhammad is declard "Seal of Prophets" Khatim un Nabiyyin, and just like a seal is placed at the end of a document and to finish something so was Prophet Muhammad sent as a final prophet. And we take into the Ahadith as well not just Quran: "My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets."
(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

"I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me."
(Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta')

and now the Ayats of Quran: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things."
(The Holy Quran, Al-Ahzab 33:40)

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion."
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)

so no more addition in religion is acceptable by any mirza ghulam qadiyani or any other person

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."
(The Holy Quran, An-Nisa, 4:59)

the bold is to establish the authenticity of following of Ahadith of Prophet Muhammad

thats fine.. but it never says that one who doesnt believe in finality of prophet cant call themselves as muslim.
Someone has also earlier said that its enought to follow 5 pillars to call oneself a muslim and that is followed by Ahmadis nd it doesnt say on finality.
Someone earlier said that Prophet mohammad will return.

Also your interpretation od Seal of Prohets may differ from mine. A seal to me doesnt end anything, it just says what I am saying is my own words identified by my seal.. like todays signature.

 

[S.Y.A]

testing as i cant see page 2



thats fine.. but it never says that one who doesnt believe in finality of prophet cant call themselves as muslim.
Someone has also earlier said that its enought to follow 5 pillars to call oneself a muslim and that is followed by Ahmadis nd it doesnt say on finality.
Someone earlier said that Prophet mohammad will return.

Prophet Muhammad will NOT return Prophet Isa will return, and we then look at the lifetime of Sahabas, look what was the reaction of Hazrat Abu Bakr to all false prophets, if what you claim is true then each and every Sahabi would have wnet against the decision of Hazrat Abu Bakr to fight prophets, not even Hazrat Ali opposed this

 

[S.Y.A]

and not to forget that musailmah claimed prophethood DURING Prophet Muhammad's lifetime, and Prophet Muhammad refuted his claim, this is for the people who may not consider Sahaba to be an authority

testing as i cant see page 2



thats fine.. but it never says that one who doesnt believe in finality of prophet cant call themselves as muslim.
Someone has also earlier said that its enought to follow 5 pillars to call oneself a muslim and that is followed by Ahmadis nd it doesnt say on finality.
Someone earlier said that Prophet mohammad will return.

Also your interpretation od Seal of Prohets may differ from mine. A seal to me doesnt end anything, it just says what I am saying is my own words identified by my seal.. like todays signature.

oh no a seal is always placed at the end, and did you read the Hadith about the bricks of a house, and have you ever heard of sealing a house or item? what does that phrase mean?

 

[KingMamba]

Ahmadi Muslims represent the tolerant and moderate side of Islam that is open to criticism and rational in mindset.

You Hindu clowns cannot change the fact that they are not Muslims. Heck even calling them ahmadis is insulting, they are qadianis who follow a whole different religion.

testing as i cant see page 2



thats fine.. but it never says that one who doesnt believe in finality of prophet cant call themselves as muslim.
Someone has also earlier said that its enought to follow 5 pillars to call oneself a muslim and that is followed by Ahmadis nd it doesnt say on finality.
Someone earlier said that Prophet mohammad will return.

Also your interpretation od Seal of Prohets may differ from mine. A seal to me doesnt end anything, it just says what I am saying is my own words identified by my seal.. like todays signature.

What does khatam mean??? Prophet Muhammad PBUH literally said there will be no prophet after me, you find a different meaning in that simple straight forward sentence than you are just delusional my friend.

Prophet Muhammad will NOT return Prophet Isa will return, and we then look at the lifetime of Sahabas, look what was the reaction of Hazrat Abu Bakr to all false prophets, if what you claim is true then each and every Sahabi would have wnet against the decision of Hazrat Abu Bakr to fight prophets, not even Hazrat Ali opposed this

Prophet Isa PBUH will not return as a prophet, because Islam is already complete. He will only return as a leader for Muslims and he will say the Shahada in front of everyone.

 

[jetti]

and not to forget that musailmah claimed prophethood DURING Prophet Muhammad's lifetime, and Prophet Muhammad refuted his claim, this is for the people who may not consider Sahaba to be an authority



oh no a seal is always placed at the end, and did you read the Hadith about the bricks of a house, and have you ever heard of sealing a house or item? what does that phrase mean?

a seal is used to close, but it can be construed as end of a phase and the beginning of a new one. an item that is sealed will be opeened. a house that is sealed will need to be rebuilt. As in the circle of life and death, there will always be start and end and start and end againa and again.
Anyways, the prophet mohammad only introdeuced the last prophet only as an afterthought when he had competing prophets at the same time. It is NOT a part of the 5 pillars which is what determines a mulim.
Let me tell you another argument on this forum..
I mentioned one day that since most pakistanis take interest which is mentioend as haraam in quran, they are not muslims. To which I was told that only following the 5 pillars makes one a muslim and following the other things in the Quran determines if you are a good follower of islam or not.
Similarly if someone says that prophet is not final which is the same infraction as accepting Intrest (riba) then the same law should apply to both sets of people.
Either (people who take interest are not muslims AND people who deny finality of mohammad are not muslims) OR
(people who take interest are muslims - because they follow 5 pillars) AND people who deny finality are also muslims - because of 5 pillars)
The basis of above argument is that the 5 pillars of Islam does not talk about finality of prophet. It only talks about acceptance of Mohammad as a Prophet of allah.

Prophet Muhammad will NOT return Prophet Isa will return, and we then look at the lifetime of Sahabas, look what was the reaction of Hazrat Abu Bakr to all false prophets, if what you claim is true then each and every Sahabi would have wnet against the decision of Hazrat Abu Bakr to fight prophets, not even Hazrat Ali opposed this

Then what will the explanation for finality of prophets be? considering that all prophets are claimed as allah's prophets

 

[KS]

Its kinda ironical that all the groups who were at the forefront of pakistan movement have been persecuted in pakistan one time or the other..

-->ahmedia bankrolled the pakistan movement and are now finding themselves as wajb-ul-qatl
-->shia played a similar role along with the intellectual backing for pakistan movement and are now finding themselves at the wrong end of the gun
-->muhajirs who as a community pioneered the pakistan movement saw Jinnahpur contoversy
-->Bengalis, the other community, at the forefront saw Operation searchlight and had to part ways..

 

[phylumchordata]

You Hindu clowns cannot change the fact that they are not Muslims. Heck even calling them ahmadis is insulting, they are qadianis who follow a whole different religion.

post reported

 

[S.Y.A]

a seal is used to close, but it can be construed as end of a phase and the beginning of a new one. an item that is sealed will be opeened. a house that is sealed will need to be rebuilt. As in the circle of life and death, there will always be start and end and start and end againa and again.
Anyways, the prophet mohammad only introdeuced the last prophet only as an afterthought when he had competing prophets at the same time. It is NOT a part of the 5 pillars which is what determines a mulim.
Let me tell you another argument on this forum..
I mentioned one day that since most pakistanis take interest which is mentioend as haraam in quran, they are not muslims. To which I was told that only following the 5 pillars makes one a muslim and following the other things in the Quran determines if you are a good follower of islam or not.
Similarly if someone says that prophet is not final which is the same infraction as accepting Intrest (riba) then the same law should apply to both sets of people.
Either (people who take interest are not muslims AND people who deny finality of mohammad are not muslims) OR
(people who take interest are muslims - because they follow 5 pillars) AND people who deny finality are also muslims - because of 5 pillars)
The basis of above argument is that the 5 pillars of Islam does not talk about finality of prophet. It only talks about acceptance of Mohammad as a Prophet of allah.



Then what will the explanation for finality of prophets be? considering that all prophets are claimed as allah's prophets

I told you we dont need logic when Quran, Prophet and Sahaba are clear in a matter, so no need to try to apply logic on this, and you have said yourself that the purpose of a seal is to close and that is that, the re-open BS you have said does not determine the purpose of a seal

Its kinda ironical that all the groups who were at the forefront of pakistan movement have been persecuted in pakistan one time or the other..

-->ahmedia bankrolled the pakistan movement and are now finding themselves as wajb-ul-qatl
-->shia played a similar role along with the intellectual backing for pakistan movement and are now finding themselves at the wrong end of the gun
-->muhajirs who as a community pioneered the pakistan movement saw Jinnahpur contoversy
-->Bengalis, the other community, at the forefront saw Operation searchlight and had to part ways..

if I remember correctly Maulana Shabbir Usmani, and Maulana Ashraf Thanvi were Sunnis and they were really close to the Quaid

 

[acid rain]

Its kinda ironical that all the groups who were at the forefront of pakistan movement have been persecuted in pakistan one time or the other..

-->ahmedia bankrolled the pakistan movement and are now finding themselves as wajb-ul-qatl
-->shia played a similar role along with the intellectual backing for pakistan movement and are now finding themselves at the wrong end of the gun
-->muhajirs who as a community pioneered the pakistan movement saw Jinnahpur contoversy
-->Bengalis, the other community, at the forefront saw Operation searchlight and had to part ways..

Quite interesting points you raise there.
I am sure the Ahmedis and the Shias might be jealous of the Bengalis because they were in a large enough number to seperate out of Pakistan and they aren't.

 

[jetti]

I told you we dont need logic when Quran, Prophet and Sahaba are clear in a matter, so no need to try to apply logic on this, and you have said yourself that the purpose of a seal is to close and that is that, the re-open BS you have said does not determine the purpose of a seal



if I remember correctly Maulana Shabbir Usmani, and Maulana Ashraf Thanvi were Sunnis and they were really close to the Quaid

boss, i am talking to you wth respect and giving your words respect, and i expect you do the same to mine.
Are you saying logic should not be applied to quran, hence it is illogical?

Quran is clear that taking riba is haram. so tell me are those who call themselves muslim committing a crime if they take or give interest?

 

[Karachiite]

We Canadians welcome everyone regardless of race,religion etc. And yes Ahmadis are well liked by the government and there are many Ahmadi mosques here.

 

[S.Y.A]

boss, i am talking to you wth respect and giving your words respect, and i expect you do the same to mine.
Are you saying logic should not be applied to quran, hence it is illogical?

Quran is clear that taking riba is haram. so tell me are those who call themselves muslim committing a crime if they take or give interest?

definitely, and I am not saying that Quran is illogical, I am saying that if a matter is clearly explained in Quran there is no need to try to make a thousand interpretations of it just to prove ones beliefs

 

[jetti]

definitely, and I am not saying that Quran is illogical, I am saying that if a matter is clearly explained in Quran there is no need to try to make a thousand interpretations of it just to prove ones beliefs

We are not making a 100 interpretations here.
All we are saying is this:
there are 2 different statements in Quran 1. riba is haram 2. mohammad is last prophet .... do you agree.?
if you dont follow one of it, can you be called a muslim?