After 16 Years and Rs 300 Crore, Civil Aircraft Dream Crashlands

[Dungeness]

Yes. But, why should the government make planes for the civil sector?

To help building Indian civilian aviation industries.

 

[surya kiran]

Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture: 49%
industry: 20%
services: 31%

The World Factbook

You should invest more on fertilizer and cattle dude. Not some aircraft which 99.9% of Indian only seen in the sky.

Ever tried using your brains and seeing what that percentage turns out to be?

Bangladesh population = 156 MN
Indian Labour Force in Industry (as per your percentage) = Close to 100 MN.

Now, shoo.

To help building Indian civilian aviation industries.

Waste of resources. Let the private companies do it.

 

[CrazyEagle9]

Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation
We should learn something from Japanese, they started making their own civil jets now.

 

[Dungeness]

Waste of resources. Let the private companies do it.

All capital intensive strategic projects need the kick-start from governments, just like Airbus, etc.

 

[surya kiran]

All capital intensive strategic projects need the kick-start from governments, just like Airbus, etc.

Actually, the kickstart has already happened. Now the need is to kick. There are companies in India which are trying to build their aviation divisions. These are well managed companies with good long term plans. And these companies are profitable. For example, Mahindra Aerospace or the Tata Group. The TATA were the people who brought in aviation into India. Air India, a government company was a TATA company before it was nationalised. So these people have deep pockets with the ability to invest.

 

[Dungeness]

Actually, the kickstart has already happened. Now the need is to kick. There are companies in India which are trying to build their aviation divisions. These are well managed companies with good long term plans. And these companies are profitable. For example, Mahindra Aerospace or the Tata Group. The TATA were the people who brought in aviation into India. Air India, a government company was a TATA company before it was nationalised. So these people have deep pockets with the ability to invest.

Good to know. Just hate to see many years of effort of hundreds of people go in vain. Best wishes!

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India should do PPP programs with the various private firms that are coming out. Mahindra Aero, TATA Aero, and Reliance being the big ones. I know many Indians hate Reliance, but they are going to build a massive aerospace park, and will probably be a big name in the sector in India.

Mahindra and NAL are doing this -

Very humble design

Mahindra assembly, fabrication plant.

C-NM5 Aircraft to be Certified in Australia -The New Indian Express

 

[Echo_419]

50 million USD, one G650 cost more. If India wants to make a go at these projects, no less than 20 billion needs to be spent.

Fully agreed

 

[Pandemonium]

i was reading about the brazilian aerospace company embraer . currently they are the third largest company in the civilian aircraft industry after boeing and airbus .india and brazil are kinda similar countries . so how is it that the Brazilians have been so successful in producing world class products and we keep messing up . like hal , embraer too started of as a govt owned company . in my opinion the indian govt needs to take a long, hard look at the embraer story and study how they have been doing it and i think we need privatization . please correct me if i am missing something here .

 

[cloud_digger]

Have you heard of the phrase "do not reinvent the wheel?" You don't have to try so hard when other countries with better human resources can provide you sophisticated, reliable and safe aircrafts. You're prioritizing nationalistic ego over safety!

These days a lot of people seem to be using this phrase "re-inventing the wheel" without taking into consideration the context of the whole scenario.
India is not reinventing the wheel here. India is an emerging economy and the need for an aircraft this size is going to be felt very soon. Saras is the perfect size for small distance travels. And can fill in some of the air lift requirements for the armed forces too.

That is a huge market that can be capitalized without having to pump precious $$s into a foreign country. Granted more aero space companies are opening up manufacturing lines in india, but owning the IP rights to an entire aircraft that will see a lot of use seems to be the right way to go.

Even if the project should fail to produce a successful aircraft the knowledge gained alone is invaluable. It can help our nascent aero space industry. And such projects always yield other benefits. Just as the article says, some of the engineers and staff from this project were moved to other projects that needed their expertise. And where did they get this expertise? From this project.

Just as Kaveri project has yielded some unexpected benefits despite failing in the original goal.

Saras has been a good initiative by India, a very late initiative, but a good one none the less. I feel it should have continued for a bit longer before they pulled the rug from underneath it. Or i hope there is another Saras like project and the team is not disbanded altogether.

 

[Nilgiri]

Have you heard of the phrase "do not reinvent the wheel?" You don't have to try so hard when other countries with better human resources can provide you sophisticated, reliable and safe aircrafts. You're prioritizing nationalistic ego over safety!

So Bangladesh should stick to producing only rice then?

i was reading about the brazilian aerospace company embraer . currently they are the third largest company in the civilian aircraft industry after boeing and airbus .india and brazil are kinda similar countries . so how is it that the Brazilians have been so successful in producing world class products and we keep messing up . like hal , embraer too started of as a govt owned company . in my opinion the indian govt needs to take a long, hard look at the embraer story and study how they have been doing it and i think we need privatization . please correct me if i am missing something here .

India did not strategically invest back in this sector in the 70s like Brazil did...the quality, operational know how (not just theoretical) and market presence comes over a very long time.

India also has been very scared of privatization and private sector for a significant duration of its independence.....this has lead to a long drought in the critical MSME sector for transport sector in general and aviation specifically nowadays (after automobile industry has now largely hit its stride).

Government backed research agency is not a bad idea (its actually quite good as @Dungeness pointed out)....but it needs to be done with a long term operationalisation in mind.....which needs resources, initial captive markets and therefore large private participation.

India can definitely suceed, no matter what bitter haters from the paddy swamps like @Maira La and @iajdani say. They must cringe with jealousy when they see each ISRO launch.

For commercial aviation as @Water Car Engineer has rightly said, a different model is needed....PPP is a good idea for sure.

 

[CountStrike]

50 million USD, one G650 cost more. If India wants to make a go at these projects, no less than 20 billion needs to be spent.

That 50 Million USD is quite expensive when compare with Indonesia 19 Passenger Turbo prop airplane program (N 219) only US$34.43 million.

--------------------
Head of The National Aviation and Space Agency Gunawan S. Prabowo, said that currently, his team and state-owned aircraft company Dirgantara Indonesia are developing the N 219 aircraft. The budget for this research is Rp 400 billion (around US$34.43 million). Currently, the N 219 is at the first design phase. The project started in 2004 and it is targeted for completion in 2016. The N 219 is speculated to have an economic value of US$3.8 million. The plane uses two engines powered by 850 shaft horsepower each. The plane can do a short take off, so it only requires 500 to 600 meters of runway, and is designed to carry cargo. Indonesia Develops N 219 Ariplane | Economy & Business | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

 

[Echo_419]

That 50 Million USD is quite expensive when compare with Indonesia 19 Passenger Turbo prop airplane program (N 219) only US$34.43 million.

--------------------
Head of The National Aviation and Space Agency Gunawan S. Prabowo, said that currently, his team and state-owned aircraft company Dirgantara Indonesia are developing the N 219 aircraft. The budget for this research is Rp 400 billion (around US$34.43 million). Currently, the N 219 is at the first design phase. The project started in 2004 and it is targeted for completion in 2016. The N 219 is speculated to have an economic value of US$3.8 million. The plane uses two engines powered by 850 shaft horsepower each. The plane can do a short take off, so it only requires 500 to 600 meters of runway, and is designed to carry cargo. Indonesia Develops N 219 Ariplane | Economy & Business | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

How much of this will be manufactured in Indonesia?

 

[CountStrike]

How much of this will be manufactured in Indonesia?

currently we built 4 Prototype (2 for ground test and 2 for Flight test). first flight will in May 2016.
until now PT Dirgantara secured 28 Order (8 civilian Transport and 20 Nomad Replacement for Navy). For the N219's engines we use Pratt & Whitney PT6A-42.


DEFENSE STUDIES: Indonesian Navy Turns to N219 as Nomad Successor
Air Born plans to order 8 N219 aircraft - ANTARA News

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

To help building Indian civilian aviation industries.

Rationally you should have done a JV with a country that has complex industrial base... Like Russia ... Instead of going into something.. You yourself are incapable of... JV would have saved cost,saved lives,given you know how and a step towards indigenousation and helped grow industrial complex.

currently we built 4 Prototype (2 for ground test and 2 for Flight test). first flight will in May 2016.
until now PT Dirgantara secured 28 Order (8 civilian Transport and 20 for Nomad Replacement for Navy). For the N219's engines we use Pratt & Whitney PT6A-42.


DEFENSE STUDIES: Indonesian Navy Turns to N219 as Nomad Successor
Air Born plans to order 8 N219 aircraft - ANTARA News

Indonesian JV with Spain is a good example for all developing countries towards developing an aviation industry..

Pak also operates 4 CASA planes from Indonesia.