Afghanistan tougher than Iraq: Holbrooke: Pakistan needs aid, sympathy

[batmannow]

US special envoy Holbrooke arrives in Islamabad
Tuesday, 10 Feb, 2009 | 01:50 PM PST |
dawn news/beta



Richard Holbrooke, US special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, began his diplomatic agenda with a meeting with foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi on Tuesday.
The envoy, flanked by the US ambassador and two American military officers, listened as Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi read a prepared statement welcoming his appointment.

Qureshi said the Obama presidency symbolized 'change and hope' and that Holbrooke's experience would help him 'understand our sensitivities and our concerns.' Media were ushered out before any of the US officials spoke. He is expected to meet the country's top civilian and military leaders during his stay.


‘I am here to listen and learn the ground realities of this critically important country,’ Holbrooke was quoted as saying in an embassy statement Monday.

‘The United States looks forward to reviewing our policies and renewing our commitment and friendship with the people of Pakistan,’ it added.

Spokesman for the US embassy, Lou Fintor, confirmed to AFP that ‘yes, he's arrived in Islamabad’.

‘It is Pakistan's endeavour to develop a fresh perspective on issues of peace, security, stability and the development of the region and in particular address the issues of militancy, terrorism and extremism effectively, by adopting a comprehensive and holistic strategy,’ the Pakistani foreign ministry said in a preliminary statement.
Holbrooke will meet President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi and senior military commanders before leaving on Thursday, the foreign ministry said.

i wish, mr,Holbrooke & new US admin, good luck & hope that, things would become good for the people of PAKISTAN, USA & AFGHANISTAN along with the other peace full countries of the world.

 

[waraich66]

That Guy Mr Hol is not fool ,he is appointed to level the ground for US attacks inside Pakistan.
But American should know that million of Pakistani shed their blood in foundation of Pakistan which is forte of Islam and remain ,no nation can break our unity and IMAN ,which are our main strength more power full then US nukes .

 

[batmannow]

February 10, 2009 Tuesday Safar 14, 1430
dawn news.com


‘Pak-Afghan bad blood behind Holbrooke’s appointment’

WASHINGTON, Feb 9: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton opted for a special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan after having witnessed the bad blood between the countries’ leaders, she said in an interview released on Monday.

In the interview with the New York Times, Ms Clinton said she knew immediately that Richard Holbrooke, the architect of the 1995 Bosnia peace pact, was right for the job when President Barack Obama approached her to be the chief US diplomat.

In 2007, on a visit to Afghanistan and Pakistan as a senator, Ms Clinton said she and fellow legislators saw the tension between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Pervez Musharraf, who was Pakistan’s president at the time.
“And it was clear to me that there was a great deal of animosity that could lead to problems between them, and with us as well, in what we were attempting to do,” she said in the interview released by the State Department.

“I had a long conversation with both President Karzai and President Musharraf, where each complained at length about the other, and it raised alarm bells in my mind,” Ms Clinton recalled.

Ms Clinton said that upon returning to Washington she urged the White House to consider appointing an envoy to “interact with the leaders in the two countries,” but the idea was never taken up.

When Mr Obama approached her to become secretary of state after he won the presidential election in November, Ms Clinton said she recommended the idea of the special envoy and for Mr Holbrooke to fill the position.

“Richard (Holbrooke) represents the kind of robust, persistent, determined diplomacy that the president intends to pursue, and that I’m honoured to help him fulfil,” she said.

The secretary said she admired deeply Mr Holbrooke’s “ability to shoulder the most vexing and difficult challenges” while he served in the administration of her husband, president Bill Clinton.

“And he does bring relentless focus and energy. He can wear you out, but it is necessary to keep everybody, you know, on point about what we’re trying to achieve,” she said.—AFP

 

[araz]

The last time I was in Islamabad, a brother from tribal areas told me the only thing the people of FATA are seeking is education and development. If there's education and development in FATA, like some of the other provinces of Pakistan, there wont be any major problems.

I think US should offer aid into developing those areas and offer good education to the people of FATA.
Fighting will not solve the problem. Development and Education is the key to solving the problem. Why do you think there's not a major "Taliban" threat in Punjab, Sindh, or even most parts of NWFP? Because children, teenagers, adults are getting education, men and women are working, and people on average are living in a decent environment.

I agree fully with your post. However, to have development, you need stability and peace. With the whole administration in NWFP including local law enforcement in turmoil, these rabble rousers are running riot. Also as per many posts on the topic they is a fairly hefty foreign intervention in the area to keep pakistan unstable.
In view of the above, military action and enforcement of the writ of law is necessary, with supervised development. we need infrastructure, and employment opportunities for the local populace before anything else. If we allied education in the form of training for the jobs, we should be able to make a difference. With employment influence of the various groups will recduce. However the million dollar question is will you be allowed to do it. The answer is I guess NO.
The reason is the power bases that have formed in the region due to decades of neglect and corruption, and the people allied to these bases. It is not in their interest to have developemnt in the region for obvious reasons. To reduce these power bases needs money and judicious blood letting. Our government is not willing to take up the task. Therefore we will remain in this mess.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Omar1984]

I agree fully with your post. However, to have development, you need stability and peace. With the whole administration in NWFP including local law enforcement in turmoil, these rabble rousers are running riot. Also as per many posts on the topic they is a fairly hefty foreign intervention in the area to keep pakistan unstable.
In view of the above, military action and enforcement of the writ of law is necessary, with supervised development. we need infrastructure, and employment opportunities for the local populace before anything else. If we allied education in the form of training for the jobs, we should be able to make a difference. With employment influence of the various groups will recduce. However the million dollar question is will you be allowed to do it. The answer is I guess NO.
The reason is the power bases that have formed in the region due to decades of neglect and corruption, and the people allied to these bases. It is not in their interest to have developemnt in the region for obvious reasons. To reduce these power bases needs money and judicious blood letting. Our government is not willing to take up the task. Therefore we will remain in this mess.
WaSalam
Araz

Well brother. I think maybe the older generation of FATA wanted to keep their land traditional, but of what I know the newer generation want development and education just like the major cities of Pakistan. They want their land to look like other major cities of Pakistan. I think Pakistan should work with the newer generation and try to work on development in those areas if allowed by the locals.

 

[waraich66]

I agree fully with your post. However, to have development, you need stability and peace. With the whole administration in NWFP including local law enforcement in turmoil, these rabble rousers are running riot. Also as per many posts on the topic they is a fairly hefty foreign intervention in the area to keep pakistan unstable.
In view of the above, military action and enforcement of the writ of law is necessary, with supervised development. we need infrastructure, and employment opportunities for the local populace before anything else. If we allied education in the form of training for the jobs, we should be able to make a difference. With employment influence of the various groups will recduce. However the million dollar question is will you be allowed to do it. The answer is I guess NO.
The reason is the power bases that have formed in the region due to decades of neglect and corruption, and the people allied to these bases. It is not in their interest to have developemnt in the region for obvious reasons. To reduce these power bases needs money and judicious blood letting. Our government is not willing to take up the task. Therefore we will remain in this mess.
WaSalam
Araz

Every one in favour of development but question at which cost ,on basis of IMF and World Bank loan or US aid ,OECF ,IBRD etc.

From last 30 years same practice is continued but we are moving back word in 1985 we have 7 USB loan in 1999 it exceeded to 40USB ,what is net result,

Whole nation is under IMF and World loans, we dont make pakistan for IMF and World Bank to dictate their terms and condition.

That was the reason even having nuke Musharaf failed to withstand pressure of US .

We need to get ride of this bigest lanat(curse) , by not taking more loan to pay back our bad debts.

Practically Pakistan is failed state ,that is reason insurgency can not be controlled but furthur increases because now every body has in depth knowledge what is going on in Top level.

Injustic breeds terrorism and extremism

 

[Ratus Ratus]

Originally Posted by araz
I agree fully with your post. However, to have development, you need stability and peace. With the whole administration in NWFP including local law enforcement in turmoil, these rabble rousers are running riot. Also as per many posts on the topic they is a fairly hefty foreign intervention in the area to keep pakistan unstable.
In view of the above, military action and enforcement of the writ of law is necessary, with supervised development. we need infrastructure, and employment opportunities for the local populace before anything else. If we allied education in the form of training for the jobs, we should be able to make a difference. With employment influence of the various groups will recduce. However the million dollar question is will you be allowed to do it. The answer is I guess NO.
The reason is the power bases that have formed in the region due to decades of neglect and corruption, and the people allied to these bases. It is not in their interest to have developemnt in the region for obvious reasons. To reduce these power bases needs money and judicious blood letting. Our government is not willing to take up the task. Therefore we will remain in this mess.
WaSalam
Araz

Well brother. I think maybe the older generation of FATA wanted to keep their land traditional, but of what I know the newer generation want development and education just like the major cities of Pakistan. They want their land to look like other major cities of Pakistan. I think Pakistan should work with the newer generation and try to work on development in those areas if allowed by the locals.

You are both correct from what I have determined.

You big problem and it is BIG is getting your government off its delicate backside and doing what is needed.


As for funding it is time to leach it out of the US on the basis it helps reduce the Taliban bases and strong holds in theses border areas. There has been enough US think tanks saying that the US Govt needs to spend in aid for thses areas. Use this material to push for just that.

 

[waraich66]

You are both correct from what I have determined.

You big problem and it is BIG is getting your government off its delicate backside and doing what is needed.


As for funding it is time to leach it out of the US on the basis it helps reduce the Taliban bases and strong holds in theses border areas. There has been enough US think tanks saying that the US Govt needs to spend in aid for thses areas. Use this material to push for just that.

Present satuation Pakistan is due to injustic and curruption at top government level,these talaban are sick of present justice system , if government wants to stop insurgency they have to provide free and fair justice to common man.

 

[zhero]

Present satuation Pakistan is due to injustic and curruption at top government level,these talaban are sick of present justice system , if government wants to stop insurgency they have to provide free and fair justice to common man.

...and how do you suggest they do that?

 

[waraich66]

...and how do you suggest they do that?

There is no other solution to stop present insurgency in Frontier,Government have to provide fair and free justice system and basic facility to 80% poor population of Pakistan, otherwise there is chance civil war spread in other part of country in balouchistan and sariaki belt of punjab.Comon man can not afford currupt local government they have no option other then to raise arms against injustice with common man from last sixty years.

Government failed to provide any facility to poor majority population of pakistan.I know in my village near cholistan still people and animals are drinking rain water in same pond and in Thar sindh also ,poverty level in NWFP and Balouchistan is worst then cholistan and THAR even.

Poverty and injustice is forcing people to do terrorism,insurgency etc

 

[Omar1984]

There is no other solution to stop present insurgency in Frontier,Government have to provide fair and free justice system and basic facility to 80% poor population of Pakistan, otherwise there is chance civil war spread in other part of country in balouchistan and sariaki belt of punjab.Comon man can not afford currupt local government they have no option other then to raise arms against injustice with common man from last sixty years.

Government failed to provide any facility to poor majority population of pakistan.I know in my village near cholistan still people and animals are drinking rain water in same pond and in Thar sindh also ,poverty level in NWFP and Balouchistan is worst then cholistan and THAR even.

Poverty and injustice is forcing people to do terrorism,insurgency etc

Well cholistan and thar are desert areas...of course there's lack of water in those areas.
And where's your proof that NWFP is worse? My friends from Abbottabad tell me how developed Abbottabad is more than some cities in Punjab, they show me pictures and houses they look just like houses in U.S. Women work in Abbottabad as doctors, lawyers, professors, girls go to school. I hear Peshawar is the same. FATA and NWFP are not the same. NWFP is one of the 4 provinces. FATA is federally administered areas like Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir. People of FATA were always independent and Pakistan had no problems with FATA until Bush invaded Afghanistan.

 

[zhero]

There is no other solution to stop present insurgency in Frontier,Government have to provide fair and free justice system and basic facility to 80% poor population of Pakistan, otherwise there is chance civil war spread in other part of country in balouchistan and sariaki belt of punjab.Comon man can not afford currupt local government they have no option other then to raise arms against injustice with common man from last sixty years.

Government failed to provide any facility to poor majority population of pakistan.I know in my village near cholistan still people and animals are drinking rain water in same pond and in Thar sindh also ,poverty level in NWFP and Balouchistan is worst then cholistan and THAR even.

- Perhaps, it is not enough to say that govt. should provide free and fair justice system, without specifying how they should go about doing it. If you were in Zardari's shoes, what actions would you take to ensure free and fair justice?

 

[waraich66]

Well cholistan and thar are desert areas...of course there's lack of water in those areas.
And where's your proof that NWFP is worse? My friends from Abbottabad tell me how developed Abbottabad is more than some cities in Punjab, they show me pictures and houses they look just like houses in U.S. Women work in Abbottabad as doctors, lawyers, professors, girls go to school. I hear Peshawar is the same. FATA and NWFP are not the same. NWFP is one of the 4 provinces. FATA is federally administered areas like Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir. People of FATA were always independent and Pakistan had no problems with FATA until Bush invaded Afghanistan.

You dont imagine poverty level of people of areas cholistan,thar,FATA,Balouchistan,interior sindh where more then 60% of total population is residing.
I have written letter to USAID about my area they replied that they can not help poor people of cholistan drinking rain water with animals because recommendation always come from member of parliment .

I invite you to my village come and see with your own eyes

 

[Omar1984]

You dont imagine poverty level of people of areas cholistan,thar,FATA,Balouchistan,interior sindh where more then 60% of total population is residing.
I have written letter to USAID about my area they replied that they are help less because recommendation always come from member of parliment .

I invite you to my village come and see with your own eyes

Pakistan is still a developing country. Pakistan has to develop all areas of Pakistan but development doesn't happen overnight. Development and eradicating poverty needs time. Have some faith

 

[waraich66]

- Perhaps, it is not enough to say that govt. should provide free and fair justice system, without specifying how they should go about doing it. If you were in Zardari's shoes, what actions would you take to ensure free and fair justice?

I lived in village and done farming for two years after engineering and had dealing with Government departments,revenue department,irrigation department WAPDA ,police,civil courts,hospitals,basic health units, local government departments, they are all base camps of curruption, when there is buying and selling of police station posting is going on then any thing you except ,each posting for police station has certain value 5 lakhs to 10 lakhs for inspector higher post have rate in millions ,similarly judges have certain rates for cases depend on level of crime,rangers have very high rates in millions.
Then there are land mafias,drug mafia,black market mafia breaking back bone of middle class .

Members MP have their own agenda and method of curruption ,now you can imagine why we have Zardari elected as president , noble man can not be president of pakistan because whole government mechinery is currupt.


This curruption and injustice is generating insurgents and terrorist.