What's new

Additional F-16s for Pakistan May Hit Hurdles

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
24,239
Reaction score
258
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
635937387158073797-Pakistan-F-16.jpg


ISLAMABAD — Additional F-16s from the US remain central to Pakistan’s modernization efforts, but analysts say since there could be hurdles ahead, surplus fighters may be a credible alternative.

News reports here citing senior officials have stated that the air force requires some 190 new aircraft to replace its legacy Mirage III/5 and Chengdu F-7 fighter fleets by 2020. Some of this figure will be made up of JF-17 Thunder Block III aircraft which air force officials have stated will feature a leap in capabilities over the current aircraft in service.

However, there is no expectation that current JF-17 production will be ramped up in either Pakistan or China — or perhaps both — to meet this need, and further F-16s are being sought, hence the recent deal for eight F-16 Block 52 fighters.

This deal is almost finalized, and Pakistan appears to be placing faith in Lockheed Martin’s need to keep the F-16 line running with new orders to help it acquire another ten F-16s that it had initially hoped to acquire with the recently cleared aircraft.

Claude Rakisits, senior fellow at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service and an expert on Pakistani affairs, is optimistic.

“Given that the Obama administration recently managed to have Congress approve the sale of eight F-16s to Pakistan, logically the sale of an additional 10 F-16s shouldn't be a real issue for Congress,” he said. “Also, given the constructive nature of the ministerial-level US-Pakistan Strategic Dialogue, which was held in Washington recently, objective indications are that convincing Congress should not be too difficult.”

However, the recent admission by Pakistan’s adviser to the prime minister on foreign affairs, Sartaj Aziz, at a meeting hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations that Pakistan had provided “various degrees of support to the Taliban since 2001” may prove counterproductive.

“While everyone in Washington suspected that was the case, the fact that Aziz admitted this quite casually and publicly as if there was nothing to it may well have damaged Pakistan's chances of getting those additional fighter jets,” Rakisits said. “Wavering US senators may not be so keen to sell such sophisticated hardware to a country which has openly admitted providing assistance and refuge to the Taliban despite denying doing so since 2001. So in light of Sartaj Aziz's admission, Pakistan may well have to look elsewhere to modernize its air force.”



Pakistani officials have noted French and Russian aircraft as alternatives, though the former are admitted by them to be expensive, and little appears to have come of reported talks for Russia’s Su-35 Flanker.

Rakisits also cites China as an alternative source.

Pakistan had planned to acquire an advanced variant of the Chengdu J-10 Firebird, but this plan appears to have been ditched. Pakistan has subsequently been linked to the stealthy Shenyang J-31/F-60, but there is no official confirmation of plans.

Given it is still in development, the J-31 is not applicable to the current time frame requirement.

Analyst, author and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail said Pakistan does not have many options.

“There has been talk of 10 more F-16C/D-52 to add to the eight approved a few days ago. That should complete one more squadron of this latest version," he said. "We have the infrastructure to simply add aircraft into the system, something that would not be so easily doable in case of Russian or Chinese systems.

“Switching to a small number of Russian and Chinese aircraft would not be a good idea from the point of view of maintainability, as it would entail major investments in new back shops, test benches and many more maintenance facilities.”

Even though Pakistan’s economy is recovering from economic mayhem wrought by the previous government and its foreign currency reserves are approaching $20 billion, such an investment is unrealistic.

Tufail, however, said there is still a credible alternative to additional F-16s.

“Surplus F-16A/B-MLU from European countries are the best option, and other than range, they do not differ majorly from the Blk-52s. I think they will serve our requirements very well, particularly as we have big numbers to fill in,” he said.

Pakistan hopes to maintain a combat force of 350-400 aircraft, and the F-16 clearly plays a large role in this endeavor even though up to 250 may eventually be JF-17 variants. In this regard, Tufail said Washington is in a very advantageous position vis-à-vis its relationship with Islamabad.

“The fact that the Americans can use the F-16s and such hardware for political leverage must not be lost on us, unless we are ready for a complete break. That would be suicidal, as much of the high-tech element of the [Pakistan Air Force] is sourced from the USA,” he said
.

Nevertheless, he remains optimistic.

“The danger of sanctions is and has always been there, but things do not seem that bad as far as [Pakistan]-US relations are concerned.”

Rakistis, however, said despite Washington’s clearly advantageous position, the spoiling party may not be Pakistan, but Congress, which could start flexing its muscles over the additional 10 F-16s.

“One shouldn't forget that while the sale of the eight F-16s has pretty much been finalized, it's not as if it was plain sailing getting it through Congress. This additional request may be going a bridge too far for some senators, especially in this highly charged election year,” he said.

Additional F-16s for Pakistan may hit hurdles

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @araz @OverLoad @Quwa @Neutron @Oscar @Bratva @Horus
 
.
635937387158073797-Pakistan-F-16.jpg


ISLAMABAD — Additional F-16s from the US remain central to Pakistan’s modernization efforts, but analysts say since there could be hurdles ahead, surplus fighters may be a credible alternative.

News reports here citing senior officials have stated that the air force requires some 190 new aircraft to replace its legacy Mirage III/5 and Chengdu F-7 fighter fleets by 2020. Some of this figure will be made up of JF-17 Thunder Block III aircraft which air force officials have stated will feature a leap in capabilities over the current aircraft in service.

However, there is no expectation that current JF-17 production will be ramped up in either Pakistan or China — or perhaps both — to meet this need, and further F-16s are being sought, hence the recent deal for eight F-16 Block 52 fighters.

This deal is almost finalized, and Pakistan appears to be placing faith in Lockheed Martin’s need to keep the F-16 line running with new orders to help it acquire another ten F-16s that it had initially hoped to acquire with the recently cleared aircraft.

Claude Rakisits, senior fellow at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service and an expert on Pakistani affairs, is optimistic.

“Given that the Obama administration recently managed to have Congress approve the sale of eight F-16s to Pakistan, logically the sale of an additional 10 F-16s shouldn't be a real issue for Congress,” he said. “Also, given the constructive nature of the ministerial-level US-Pakistan Strategic Dialogue, which was held in Washington recently, objective indications are that convincing Congress should not be too difficult.”

However, the recent admission by Pakistan’s adviser to the prime minister on foreign affairs, Sartaj Aziz, at a meeting hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations that Pakistan had provided “various degrees of support to the Taliban since 2001” may prove counterproductive.

“While everyone in Washington suspected that was the case, the fact that Aziz admitted this quite casually and publicly as if there was nothing to it may well have damaged Pakistan's chances of getting those additional fighter jets,” Rakisits said. “Wavering US senators may not be so keen to sell such sophisticated hardware to a country which has openly admitted providing assistance and refuge to the Taliban despite denying doing so since 2001. So in light of Sartaj Aziz's admission, Pakistan may well have to look elsewhere to modernize its air force.”



Pakistani officials have noted French and Russian aircraft as alternatives, though the former are admitted by them to be expensive, and little appears to have come of reported talks for Russia’s Su-35 Flanker.

Rakisits also cites China as an alternative source.

Pakistan had planned to acquire an advanced variant of the Chengdu J-10 Firebird, but this plan appears to have been ditched. Pakistan has subsequently been linked to the stealthy Shenyang J-31/F-60, but there is no official confirmation of plans.

Given it is still in development, the J-31 is not applicable to the current time frame requirement.

Analyst, author and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail said Pakistan does not have many options.

“There has been talk of 10 more F-16C/D-52 to add to the eight approved a few days ago. That should complete one more squadron of this latest version," he said. "We have the infrastructure to simply add aircraft into the system, something that would not be so easily doable in case of Russian or Chinese systems.

“Switching to a small number of Russian and Chinese aircraft would not be a good idea from the point of view of maintainability, as it would entail major investments in new back shops, test benches and many more maintenance facilities.”

Even though Pakistan’s economy is recovering from economic mayhem wrought by the previous government and its foreign currency reserves are approaching $20 billion, such an investment is unrealistic.

Tufail, however, said there is still a credible alternative to additional F-16s.

“Surplus F-16A/B-MLU from European countries are the best option, and other than range, they do not differ majorly from the Blk-52s. I think they will serve our requirements very well, particularly as we have big numbers to fill in,” he said.

Pakistan hopes to maintain a combat force of 350-400 aircraft, and the F-16 clearly plays a large role in this endeavor even though up to 250 may eventually be JF-17 variants. In this regard, Tufail said Washington is in a very advantageous position vis-à-vis its relationship with Islamabad.

“The fact that the Americans can use the F-16s and such hardware for political leverage must not be lost on us, unless we are ready for a complete break. That would be suicidal, as much of the high-tech element of the [Pakistan Air Force] is sourced from the USA,” he said
.

Nevertheless, he remains optimistic.

“The danger of sanctions is and has always been there, but things do not seem that bad as far as [Pakistan]-US relations are concerned.”

Rakistis, however, said despite Washington’s clearly advantageous position, the spoiling party may not be Pakistan, but Congress, which could start flexing its muscles over the additional 10 F-16s.

“One shouldn't forget that while the sale of the eight F-16s has pretty much been finalized, it's not as if it was plain sailing getting it through Congress. This additional request may be going a bridge too far for some senators, especially in this highly charged election year,” he said.

Additional F-16s for Pakistan may hit hurdles

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @araz @OverLoad @Quwa @Neutron @Oscar @Bratva @Horus
Nothing new here. We have discussed the permutations and the arguments for and against these acquisition. Nothing against you @ The Eagle , but this did not merit a thread. Please merge it with the general F16 discussion.
Regards.
A
 
.
Nothing new here. We have discussed the permutations and the arguments for and against these acquisition. Nothing against you @ The Eagle , but this did not merit a thread. Please merge it with the general F16 discussion.
Regards.
A

Thanks. No issue at all.

I request mods here to merge if not feasible as a separate thread but i thought the article comprises of many areas like PAF future procurement, JFT, our Foreign office etc so may not derail the topic of F-16 discussion alone. @HRK @TaimiKhan Sir please merge the same with F-16 discussion thread, if needed.
 
.
They all are mad they should go for flanker rather than F16 I don't think we should relay on a single aircraft .....aquire other aircrafts.....experience dual engine......fly them.....learn them how to use but they are continuously going to make some profit for Lockheed martin ........wake up PAf planners go for Sukhoi there will be a huge western power coming in our neighbourhoof after a few years and u all know that very well the rafales.....!!!!!!
 
.
If Americans want to keep their F-16s line open longer, they'd end up selling more. Indian Randi Rona wouldn't matter but regardless, Pakistan's dependence on USA is a big risk.
 
.
Given the noise that India made for those 8 F16s, any additional F16s for Pakistan in present circumstances is just a dream
 
.
Why is Pakistan so desperate to induct American F-16s? Why not the Chinese J-11D variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, and capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The air frame makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. The wings have three hardpoints each. The Chinese claim that it has a new fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.

And it will come for a song, a fraction of the cost of an F-16, seeing that the Chinese would be selling it to their 'trusted' all weather friends at discounted rates.
 
.
Why is Pakistan so desperate to induct American F-16s? Why not the Chinese J-11D variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, and capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The air frame makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. The wings have three hardpoints each. The Chinese claim that it has a new fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.

And it will come for a song, a fraction of the cost of an F-16, seeing that the Chinese would be selling it to their 'trusted' all weather friends at discounted rates.
Chinese Flankers are not for sale... they made an agreement with Russian to not sale the Flankers..
Lol.. we have experience with F-16 and infrastructure for it.. additional F-16 can easily fit there as they don;t need any additional infrastructure...

Given the noise that India made for those 8 F16s, any additional F16s for Pakistan in present circumstances is just a dream
yanks do what they want.. LM is there to handle that noise in congress
 
.
Chinese Flankers are not for sale... they made an agreement with Russian to not sale the Flankers..
Lol.. we have experience with F-16 and infrastructure for it.. additional F-16 can easily fit there as they don;t need any additional infrastructure...


yanks do what they want.. LM is there to handle that noise in congress

Again it depends on who has deep pockets. LM not only make F16s, but there are many things it sells to India, moreover the F16s that Pakistan is getting is from tax payers money of US.

And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.
 
.
Given the noise that India made for those 8 F16s, any additional F16s for Pakistan in present circumstances is just a dream

It wouldn't be a matter given the success of Pakistan and US response against that noise. Circumstances would matter in case the deal was stopped/canceled so the success added a positive point in the score towards more efficiency in relations.
 
.
Given the noise that India made for those 8 F16s, any additional F16s for Pakistan in present circumstances is just a dream
Lol...It is you who is dreaming...still considering that India has some importance or leverage on USA after initial sale...!

Again it depends on who has deep pockets. LM not only make F16s, but there are many things it sells to India, moreover the F16s that Pakistan is getting is from tax payers money of US.

And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.
Don't over estimate your importance kid...!
 
.
Since we all know that the PAF is not going to induct any 4 or 4.5 generation aircraft, F16s are most feasible option as our guys are playing with this since 2+ decades.

However, Pakistan should play safe and don't spent any dollar on that and the US surplus block52s are in very good condition, they are retiring them because they are inducting 35s.

@The Eagle
 
.
LM not only make F16s, but there are many things it sells to India,
LM makes more money from F-16 than any other thing.... and they are selling us F-16s from 80's this is nothing new..

moreover the F16s that Pakistan is getting is from tax payers money of US.
its their money and their way to spent money..

And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.
lol.. we are using F-16s from 3 decades and why would LM will cut its ties with Pak, from whom they are making billions..
 
.
Again it depends on who has deep pockets. LM not only make F16s, but there are many things it sells to India, moreover the F16s that Pakistan is getting is from tax payers money of US.

And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.
there is a big "IF"....Deploy the F-16 factory first.
 
.
Since we all know that the PAF is not going to induct any 4 or 4.5 generation aircraft, F16s are most feasible option as our guys are playing with this since 2+ decades.

However, Pakistan should play safe and don't spent any dollar on that and the US surplus block52s are in very good condition, they are retiring them because they are inducting 35s.

@The Eagle

Indeed, it has been expressed in recent times by Officials which indicates that Pakistan will likely to go with JFT, F-16s and FC-31 which looks befitting equation as per visible financial picture but on other hand, somehow, a 4.5++ platform is needed to fill the long range, mutlirole heavy strike package gap and looking at the turbulence in US_PAK relations, seems like we are seriously looking at other options as well that may minimize the full reliance on F-16s alone. Induct as much as F-16s (looks like preferred 110 number to be achieved), invest and stick with JFT to overcome the shortage of retiring fleet not in numbers but most with advance tech which will cut short the number psych as one JFT would serve the purpose of 2 old retiring ACs and continue with FC-31 program for future procurement. It is also rumored that PAF would go for Russian or French so I think SU-35 fits the bill here against costly French gadgets but on other hand will affect the budget allocation for JFT. So, so much ambiguities but showing interest in French or Russian weaponry could be more like to build the pressure to achieve the dreamed numbers of F-16s.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom