A PREGNANT WOMAN FALLS YET ANOTHER VICTIM TO MEDICAL NEGLIGENCE IN PAKISTAN

[Mrc]

Dont take me wrong but most doctors in pakistan do a great job. Butwe have reached where we are today by not punishing the black sheeps...

There is dire need for comprehensive arrangements for review and punishment
I am not advicating us system but things currently in pakistan are unacceptable

 

[RescueRanger]

Yea we usually end up in those...when dad was working he could get refunds from his company as we were insured even outside the country but now he is retired we try not to go ramming into a car

Get medical cover from AdamJee it;s very affordable.

 

[Dubious]

Get medical cover from AdamJee it;s very affordable.

Well, right now we are insured in the countries we are in ....Just not in Pakistan lolz there we get the family doctor insurance

Then we have the numerous hakeem walay in our family....Ghar ki phakki and god knows whatelse is 1 pinch of churan cure for everything

 

[Indus Falcon]

Some hospitals in Pakistan are at breaking point. I have myself experienced this when I was shopping for some computer parts on Sixth Road, Rawalpindi, when we saw an car hit a pedestrian.

Me and a friend ran to the scene and identified ourselves the driver was in panic and crying that the person just jumped out, this was before 1122 was in Rawalpindi BTW, I am talking about 2002. We called 115 for an ambulance and after a 9 minute the ambulance finally turned up.

As soon as they arrived, with due respect I knew they will treat this poor man in a terrible condition in typical meat wagon fashion, so I stepped in and said, I will move the casualty and you can help me, I ensured we stabilised his spine the best we could and placed him on the stretcher. My friend sat in the car with the driver and I was in the ambulance.

We reached the hospital, EDHI staff placed the poor man on the hospital gurney which was covered with small specks of blood and what looked a lot like excrement. At first they would not register the casualty until we made a little bit of a scene and other people came to our aid. Finally they said he needs an X-Ray, you take him to the X-Ray room... once in there I was asked by the radiographer to hold the head of the casualty steady as they were short staffed and didn't have enough people to help... When I asked, can I at least have an apron (protects you from exposure), his only response was "chalta hain, bachey kar sako gey".

The casualty had been hit by a vehicle at high speed and hit the ground causing severe trauma to the cranium, and compound fractures to both his legs. Needless to say he was unconscious, and instead of intubating him, the orderly kept trying to put him in the recovery position, Luckily we managed to get a resident who decided that he would benefit from an airway.

After that he was still left on the gurney outside the OT until we started making noise and then the doctor came back and said oh ho ye banda to critcal hain, then they had to cheek to tell us, he will need suture and we don't have suture kit or and we need 10x10 gauze too? fat the wack bro your running a hospital here!

If anyone knows Rawalpindi General Hospital, there are chemists opposite the hospital, I ran across the road to the chemist and and purchased sutures and gauze for this guy and two bottles of saline for fluid therapy, the doctor's assistant comes out and says, we need to give him blood so do you have anyone to donate and we will give him two bottles.... Can you ducking believe it!

So me the driver and another fellow said we will donate blood.... We did this and only after all this BS did the ducking doctor save that poor chap! Now Just imagine if this guy was brought in alone.!!!!!

One word: Respect !

 

[Yousufshaikh]

Putting dead patients in ventilators and charging money ??? DO you guys even think before opening your mouth ? Kidnly back up your claims before blindly narrating a one sided story and passing hatred.
This is what I found in doctors reply to this. Infact the whole incident has been explained by other gaeyenocologists too on health TV which clearly state that it was a natural death.

I am unable to share the link being a new member but kindly look into the reply from her daughter as well as her and all other doctors. including the journalist who initially thought it was her fault but later accepted the mistake and recognized it as a natural death.

 

[Gunsnroses]

Putting dead patients in ventilators and charging money ??? DO you guys even think before opening your mouth ? Kidnly back up your claims before blindly narrating a one sided story and passing hatred.
This is what I found in doctors reply to this. Infact the whole incident has been explained by other gaeyenocologists too on health TV which clearly state that it was a natural death.

I am unable to share the link being a new member but kindly look into the reply from her daughter as well as her and all other doctors. including the journalist who initially thought it was her fault but later accepted the mistake and recognized it as a natural death.

Can you copy/paste the reference, not the link?

 

[Yousufshaikh]

Putting dead patients on the ventilator is how they over inflate the bill and get their stories straight. The stories I have heard from the doctors here are that of office politics taken to a level no one is bound to understand. Junior ward staff writing up reports for surgery heads to file paperwork. A pharmacy mafia pushing bunk drugs, drugs not being given to patients and pocketing the money and worst of all the expired drugs being sold. The political clicks of nurses and ward boys are running wings and systematically choosing patients to kill. Like literally killing them with no remorse. These are just a few that I remember or had the heart to hear about.

I am sorry but you would need to back up your claims by proof. These are all false claims. I work at LNH and would like to clarify all doubts related to these issues. Although I was NOT present at the time of this particular incident, but hearing the opposite side of story WITH some medical knowledge might help you understand the nature of problem and cause of death.

P.s - From what I have gathered so far, previous deliveries of that patient was also conducted by Dr Shahnaz. But no appraise. Suddenly she dies of Amniotic fluid embolism and hell breaks loose making it doctors fault. and making false accusations. Why do we all have to be so judgemental ?? Blindly passing negative comments and forwarding a doctors picture with 0% clue of what really happened. We don't even know how many live's she had saved before ?? Now what if YOUR mother or family member was defamed in such manner for something she did not do ?? But lets just do what we do easily sitting at home on our comfortable chair. JUDGE PEOPLE and DEFAME them..

Dr Shahnaz doesn't work at LNH as full time faculty. She only takes cases there of those patients who REQUEST to be delivered in LNH

Can you copy/paste the reference, not the link?

It is circulating on facebook. I saw it on some one named Mariam Anwar's post. Anyhow you will find the reply. I hope.

 

[Mrc]

Hence a need for robust enquiry system... without a post mortam amniotic fluid embolus claim of doctor does stand in this case...

 

[Gunsnroses]

I am sorry but you would need to back up your claims by proof. These are all false claims.

He is pointing out in general, not necessarily LNH.

But dude, putting patients unnecessarily on vent or a dead person on vent is very common practice in some 'low or middle class' hospitals. You want proof? I used to receive patients transferred from LNH to the ICU unit where I worked. Later I found out that most of the LNH ER docs had contract with this hospital management of selling patients , which would take up to Rs. 5000 and Rs. 8000 for dead and alive respectively! I even went on to trace some of them and wrote a letter to LNH administration but that was all in vain.

It is circulating on facebook. I saw it on some one named Mariam Anwar's post. Anyhow you will find the reply. I hope.

Thank you. I hope truth will unfold sooner or later.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Putting dead patients in ventilators and charging money ??? .

As far as LNH is concerned, I have witnessed this first hand, As Allah as my witness.

Back in 2010, a very close relative of mine who worked for the CAA had a heart attack, some other complications, and went into coma. He was moved to the ICU and put on the vent. The third day, smelling a rat, I insisted on a brain function test. Which was carried out the next day, only to confirm that the result was -ve. Meaning he was brain dead. Nonetheless the doctors decided that it would be better to shift the vent tube down to his throat. Which they did so. They kept him in that vegitiative state for a total of 26 days. The ultimate bill was Rs.27~29 Lakh, borne by the CAA.

His condition did not improve one bit, during those 26 days.

I was watching everything, but being "extend family" could not say much. The immediate family was too emotional, to think rationally.

I do not think for a second, that this particular case (OP) was NOT mismanaged.

Criminal negligence charges, should be pressed against the Hospital and the Doctors involved.

 

[VCheng]

Can you ducking believe it!

Would you believe that many a time, I paid for the supplies, worked on the patient, donated my own blood and then gave money for the ride home? And those were the "good old days".

I know right, it's like calling the police and the police saying... Can you provide is petrol money, some firearms and handcuffs please?

Private hospitals a million times better but a million times more expensive.

To be honest though, somebody has to pay to provide the resources needed for hospital care. If there are no resources, or if they are lost through corruption, the end result is where the patient pays with their life, sadly. Somebody always pays.

 

[Yousufshaikh]

He is pointing out in general, not necessarily LNH.

But dude, putting patients unnecessarily on vent or a dead person on vent is very common practice in some 'low or middle class' hospitals. You want proof? I used to receive patients transferred from LNH to the ICU unit where I worked. Later I found out that most of the LNH ER docs had contract with this hospital management of selling patients , which would take up to Rs. 5000 and Rs. 8000 for dead and alive respectively! I even went on to trace some of them and wrote a letter to LNH administration but that was all in vain.



Thank you. I hope truth will unfold sooner or later.

Brother. let me share you the true experience. There are a total of 55 ICU beds in LNH. And at almost every moment every bed is occupied and about 3-4 patients are intubated in ER waiting for any bed to get emptied. So keeping a dead person on vent is NOT possible not because it does not offer any financial advantage to the hospital administration but it is unethical. The objective of ICU is just not to put the patient on ventilator. Icu is led by a team of highly trained paramedical staff, doctors and at least one senior most anesthetist as well as intensivist. How many of you know how many intensivists are there in karachi ?? I can safely say less than 5 of which 2 are in LNH and remaining in AKU. Infact the traning of intensivists has itself started few years ago in AKU. Keeping a dead patient alive in a setting of a highly busy ICU is just not possible these days from any perspective. Attendants are allowed to visit the patient at least once daily. But due to poor security we often come across an attendant sitting 24/7 beside attendant neglecting all infection control protocols because he happens to be a part of some political organization.

As far as ER based referral of ICU is concerned. We often have a situation when no ICU bed is free. 3 patients are already intubated on vent in ER. Suppose a 4th patient comes in ER who is in dire need of ICU. In those situation we need to council the family that we have 3 patients waiting and your wait for an ICU might get unnecessary prolonged. IN this duration the health of the patient can detoriorate. Because it is useless to ge thte patient admitted in ER and make him wait and then when he detoriorates, the family would come to kill you for wasting their time as they could have tried other hospitals. The hospital policy states that if the patient Requests to keep the patient in ER department and wait for ICU ( in the meantime the attendants go out to arrange ICU in other hospital) then we do that. But if the wait is getting excessively prolonged then we have no option other than transferring out patient. Which Private institution likes transfer out a patient and a possible source of income ??? NONE>.. but we still do because of the patients health.

The transfer policy is that every patient has to have a form filled by a doctor who will sign it. This form directly goes to MD of hospital next day and that particular doctor is specifically asked what was the reason. It happened to me once as well. The MD of the hospital has entire bed status in front of him of that moment of the entire hospital and if he finds that a bed was empty, then that doctor is immediately removed. I have personally sen this happening ( So you might be right about a person transferring patient, but he was removed soon after) and this doesn't happen anymore.

The problem is some people will die. Considering that private hospitals are expensive, the general public opinion is that the patient is brought to hospital. Now just give money and patient is going to be fine. They are just not ready to accept that fact that money cant buy health. After loads of money, drugs and medicines, people still die. People die sometimes when we 0% expect them to. Sometimes we are completely unable to even identify the cause of sudden death. Some people live when we expect them to die any second. It is just that we cannot tell you the future, But we can five you figures, % survival based on past experience, books, referance, medical journal and articles. Despite all those we are proved wrong sometimes. And people have to realize that there is a higher authority ALLAH who controls everything and seldom shows us that HE is who has the potential to give life to anyone and take from anyone..

I will be glad to share any information regarding the hospital as you guys require. There is nothing to hide.
But I can feel the pain of the victim here. He may not be counselled properly but loosing a loved one is definitely not easy. I hope Allah gives him patience and doctor. ( She may or may not be at fault but ALLAH will judge her when her time comes ).. Lets not try to do the judging process among us.,

 

[Gunsnroses]

The transfer policy is that every patient has to have a form filled by a doctor who will sign it. This form directly goes to MD of hospital next day and that particular doctor is specifically asked what was the reason. It happened to me once as well. The MD of the hospital has entire bed status in front of him of that moment of the entire hospital and if he finds that a bed was empty, then that doctor is immediately removed. I have personally sen this happening ( So you might be right about a person transferring patient, but he was removed soon after) and this doesn't happen anymore.

My friend am not arguing nor denying the facts you have stated. The pressure, the work load there is far greater than one can imagine. On top of it, sometimes the humiliation by attendants and the threats just kill you. I was also selected in Anaesthesia and Intensive Care training at LNH, but I chose to remain with Dr. Madiha Hashmi who was the general secretary of Pakistan Association of Anaesthesia and Intensive Care. Just telling so that you would know I am not talking legends when I say I know the ins and outs of LNH ER doctors --- at least in my times. There may be improvements now but not soooo long ago patients were sold from the very ER of LNH. There were silly and clever docs who knew 'when' and 'how' to transfer a patient. Silly might have gotten caught as you said, but clever knew how to whistle later and save their a$$es. All those nazimabad and north bungalows cum altar hospitals were the final destinations of poor patients. The whole situation is true for the docs in ER in other hospitals as well.

But do note that not many are advocating to judge the said consultant without knowing her side of story.

 

[VCheng]

As far as LNH is concerned, I have witnessed this first hand, As Allah as my witness.

Back in 2010, a very close relative of mine who worked for the CAA had a heart attack, some other complications, and went into coma. He was moved to the ICU and put on the vent. The third day, smelling a rat, I insisted on a brain function test. Which was carried out the next day, only to confirm that the result was -ve. Meaning he was brain dead. Nonetheless the doctors decided that it would be better to shift the vent tube down to his throat. Which they did so. They kept him in that vegitiative state for a total of 26 days. The ultimate bill was Rs.27~29 Lakh, borne by the CAA.

His condition did not improve one bit, during those 26 days.

I was watching everything, but being "extend family" could not say much. The immediate family was too emotional, to think rationally.

I do not think for a second, that this particular case (OP) was NOT mismanaged.

Criminal negligence charges, should be pressed against the Hospital and the Doctors involved.

When a patient has no recognizable brain function, it is up to the patient's next of kin, or those with legal health care proxy, to ask for withdrawal of life support. If they demand that all measures be taken, then the doctors have to respect those wishes. What you have described seems proper.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Brother. let me share you the true experience. There are a total of 55 ICU beds in LNH. And at almost every moment every bed is occupied and about 3-4 patients are intubated in ER waiting for any bed to get emptied. So keeping a dead person on vent is NOT possible not because it does not offer any financial advantage to the hospital administration but it is unethical. The objective of ICU is just not to put the patient on ventilator. Icu is led by a team of highly trained paramedical staff, doctors and at least one senior most anesthetist as well as intensivist. How many of you know how many intensivists are there in karachi ?? I can safely say less than 5 of which 2 are in LNH and remaining in AKU. Infact the traning of intensivists has itself started few years ago in AKU. Keeping a dead patient alive in a setting of a highly busy ICU is just not possible these days from any perspective. Attendants are allowed to visit the patient at least once daily. But due to poor security we often come across an attendant sitting 24/7 beside attendant neglecting all infection control protocols because he happens to be a part of some political organization.

As far as ER based referral of ICU is concerned. We often have a situation when no ICU bed is free. 3 patients are already intubated on vent in ER. Suppose a 4th patient comes in ER who is in dire need of ICU. In those situation we need to council the family that we have 3 patients waiting and your wait for an ICU might get unnecessary prolonged. IN this duration the health of the patient can detoriorate. Because it is useless to ge thte patient admitted in ER and make him wait and then when he detoriorates, the family would come to kill you for wasting their time as they could have tried other hospitals. The hospital policy states that if the patient Requests to keep the patient in ER department and wait for ICU ( in the meantime the attendants go out to arrange ICU in other hospital) then we do that. But if the wait is getting excessively prolonged then we have no option other than transferring out patient. Which Private institution likes transfer out a patient and a possible source of income ??? NONE>.. but we still do because of the patients health.

The transfer policy is that every patient has to have a form filled by a doctor who will sign it. This form directly goes to MD of hospital next day and that particular doctor is specifically asked what was the reason. It happened to me once as well. The MD of the hospital has entire bed status in front of him of that moment of the entire hospital and if he finds that a bed was empty, then that doctor is immediately removed. I have personally sen this happening ( So you might be right about a person transferring patient, but he was removed soon after) and this doesn't happen anymore.

The problem is some people will die. Considering that private hospitals are expensive, the general public opinion is that the patient is brought to hospital. Now just give money and patient is going to be fine. They are just not ready to accept that fact that money cant buy health. After loads of money, drugs and medicines, people still die. People die sometimes when we 0% expect them to. Sometimes we are completely unable to even identify the cause of sudden death. Some people live when we expect them to die any second. It is just that we cannot tell you the future, But we can five you figures, % survival based on past experience, books, referance, medical journal and articles. Despite all those we are proved wrong sometimes. And people have to realize that there is a higher authority ALLAH who controls everything and seldom shows us that HE is who has the potential to give life to anyone and take from anyone..

I will be glad to share any information regarding the hospital as you guys require. There is nothing to hide.
But I can feel the pain of the victim here. He may not be counselled properly but loosing a loved one is definitely not easy. I hope Allah gives him patience and doctor. ( She may or may not be at fault but ALLAH will judge her when her time comes ).. Lets not try to do the judging process among us.,

Welcome to the forum.
Brother it's Ramadan, i've read your posts and couldn't resist but mention that i understand what you are talking about here.And so do all of them out there who may be related to your field.Negative sensationalism is a hot selling product.
Please save your energies for something better.My two cents.All the best.