'A Matter Of Faith' For Pakistan

[fatman17]

'A Matter Of Faith' For Pakistan

A radicalizing effect at work?

February 10, 2009

A look at any major Western newspaper will have you believe that the world worries a lot about the security challenges posed by the complex jihadi conundrum in Pakistan. With Obama's special envoy, Richard "Bulldozer" Holbrooke, visiting the region, much ink is being spilled to prescribe policy solutions.

While much of the current discourse is focused on bureaucratic solutions, more sophisticated weapons for the military, more development aid, "smart" diplomacy, and regional cooperation, nobody is worrying about the change that Pakistani society has undergone.

In two revealing pieces in "Newsline," Pakistan's leading newsmagazine, Muhammad Hanif and Pervez Hoodbhoy present a fine sampling of the problems Pakistan is facing.

Hanif is a Pakistani journalist whose novel, "A Case of Exploding Mangoes," is billed as a "political thriller" but is in fact a satire of what has happened to Pakistan since one of its former military dictators, General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, decided to become the "godfather of the jihadi movement," in the author's words.

His insightful cover story "The Power of the Pulpit," tells us why some of the Western bureaucratic policy prescriptions for Pakistan might not work. In an effort to be the bastion of Islamic fundamentalism, the Pakistani state has forced its society to undergo what now appears to be unmitigated radicalization.

In a piece aptly titled "The Saudi-ization of Pakistan," Pervez Hoodbhoy, a physics professor and liberal public intellectual, laments the gradual shift of Pakistani polity away from its South Asian roots toward the Arab world. His otherwise alarming description and analysis, however, ends on an optimistic note:


"In the long term, I am convinced that the forces of irrationality will cancel themselves out because they act at random whereas reason pulls only in one direction. History leads us to believe that reason will triumph over unreason, and the evolution of the humans into a higher and better species will continue. Using ways that we cannot currently anticipate, they will somehow overcome their primal impulses of territoriality, tribalism, religiosity and nationalism. But, for now, this must be just a matter of faith."

-- Abubakar Siddique

 

[Kasrkin]

Hm, I don't have a very high opinion of this 'Newsline' magazine. Half if it is dedicated to 'liberal' political Pakistan bashing and the other half is a ladies fashion magazine.

So these guys think that tribalism is akin to religiosity and nationalism (I noticed they didn’t mention sectarianism or ethnicity). Now that’s hardly fair…

 

[muse]

So these guys think that tribalism is akin to religiosity and nationalism (I noticed they didn’t mention sectarianism or ethnicity). Now that’s hardly fair…

Help me out, what's "unfair" in the notion that Takfiri, tribal, sectarian and ethnocentric are a fit?

 

[Kasrkin]

Maybe you misunderstood. I meant while the author wishes to destroy religiosity and nationalism, he fails to even mention destructive sectarian and ethnic ideologies. The problem with Pakistan is not religiosity or nationalism; it is the lack of it which makes it easier for violent tribal, sectarian (I'm including Al-Qaeda and other 'puritan' cults here) and ethnic outfits to flourish at the cost of religious and national unity.

Whatever the Al-Qaeda and the like is, if you think that they’re even remotely related to any aspect of Islam; then that’s your opinion brother.

 

[fatman17]

religious and national unity.

unity comes from nationalism IMHO!

 

[muse]

Nationalism is not generally a cookie cutter concept -- we still have to judge the content of nationalism.

For Pakistan the problem is neither of the things you mention, rather the problem for Pakistanis is that they do not know how to judge for content.

It may well be that if Pakistanis were more religious things might be better, once again, we are back to judging content -- if more religious means discerning right from wrong based on justice or reason, you may have a point, on the othert hand if more religious means taking inspiration from literal interpretations of texts, such that right and wrong are what someone decides is right or wrong, they we will have a problem. Imagine that "more religious" means a more Asharyah view, murder then is justified (wajib ul Qatl), as a religious duty.

There is a further problem, religious duty and obligations are not the same as civic rights and responsiblities that all CITIZENS must hold and bear, whereas religious duties and obligations are accepted by adherents of a religion.

That Al-Qaida, sectarianism, Tribalism and ethnic identies are as widely accepted in Pakistan is a reflection of a confusion about judging content.

 

[fatman17]

That Al-Qaida, sectarianism, Tribalism and ethnic identies are as widely accepted in Pakistan is a reflection of a confusion about judging content.

only because of the US! if the US wasnt involved, i doubt if pakistanis would accept al-qaida and taliban. pakistanis are secular by culture.

 

[muse]

Talk is cheap --- There was no US after 1989 and Al-Qaida and the Talibanization of Pakistani society continued.

Why make the US a scape goat? Like a rapist arguing that had tghere not been any women he would have raped women.

All this "feeling" stuff - have people forgotten to think, to take responsibility??

Radical Wahabi ideas have grown in Pakistan because it has allowed itself to become a battle ground between the Iranian and the Saudi -- Of course this is a diabolic, satanic American plan, but who has been twisting the Pakistanis arms to so willingly engage in Tribal, sectarian and ethnic sentiments?? Hainji??

 

[Kasrkin]

Radical Wahabi ideas have grown in Pakistan because it has allowed itself to become a battle ground between the Iranian and the Saudi

It’s not as simple as that. A lot of people in Pakistan are inherently confused about their place in the world and Islam's place in their nation. Without concrete ideological basis or fall backs i.e. nationalism or cultural security/pride the likes of which we see in Iran, these trends have proven to be dangerous.

 

[muse]

Sir you have a point, but whose has been the enemy of culture in Pakistan if not the Mullah?

And what's the rush? Before we suggest that this or that identity be formed or accepted, why not work on values -- why not take a position with regard to values and allow whatever CULTURES develop in Pakistan, just as long as there is a broad agreement in society about our core values.

Today we have no such agreement about values - Sunni attack Shiah in their Masajid, the Shiah respond in kind, bigots victimize Ahmadi, the poor increasingly in the Punjab turn to Christianity. If it is regressive, if it is bigoted, if it is anti-national, anti-pakistani, it is more than likely "Islamic". No longer is Islam about faith and love of God, it is a instgrument of totalitarian control -- This or that has to be "IMPLEMENTED", after all the 2nd rate Muslims cannopt be gtrusted to decide for themselves.

IMPLEMENTED - we've got the perfect plan for utopia - that's right, with the power of God, Shaiah , Quran and the ulema, fertilizer production will increase, the housing problem will cease to be a problem -- with the Grace of God, of course all failures will have occured because His Grace was busy elsewhere????

There is a reason the sages have expressed experience as existing in Deen and in Duniya, this balance is essential and if either of these IMPOSES itself on the other, imbalances are not preferred. Our Khalifa and other utopia types may wish to explore these ideas of Deen and Duniya.

 

[S-2]

"Why make the US a scape goat?...All this "feeling" stuff - have people forgotten to think, to take responsibility??

Radical Wahabi ideas have grown in Pakistan because it has allowed itself to become a battle ground between the Iranian and the Saudi -- Of course this is a diabolic, satanic American plan..."

Oh, of course! Diabolic and satanic-that's us...

Is this taking responsibility? Seems even you leave yourself a rhetorical escape path.

Let's give it a wine-tasting test- hmmm...hints of grand conspiracy with an explosive citric acid clarity and a profoundly "nutty" flourish at the finish.

WINE SPECTATOR rates this vintage an "84". Unacceptable for special occasions but, once on the bargain bins, a value for daily consumption-but only to be appreciated by discerning Pakistanis.

 

[muse]

In yet another capitulation to evil Western Culture, The federal Shariah court has chosen to alter laws that some amongst us (A.Rahman) are claiming Divine rules -- how can this be?? Can Man change Shariah laws?? If so, then are they actually "Divine"??

More hadith to follow, while Quran is silent:




Federal Shariat Court seeks amendment in Qanun-e-Shahadat: Rapist can’t be exonerated by accusing victim of immorality

LAHORE: A full bench of the Federal Shariat Court on Wednesday held a provision of the Qanun-e-Shahadat law — that stipulates that a man accused of rape or attempted rape to show that the victim was of generally immoral character – is against the teachings of the holy Quran and sunnah.

The provision is contained in Article 151(4) of the Qanun-e-Shahadat Order 1984. The bench, consisting of Chief Justice Haziqul Khairi, Justice Dr Fida Khan, Justice Salahuddin Mirza and Justice Zafar Yasin, held that Article 151(4) was repugnant to the holy Quran and sunnah and directed the president of Pakistan to take appropriate steps for repealing the provision within six months, after which the provision would cease to be effective, even if it is not repealed.

The court held that the provision was discriminatory on the basis of gender and was in violation of the constitution, adding that it negated the concept of gender equality as enshrined in the holy Quran. According to Islam, a woman was placed on a more exalted and respected position than a man, it said. The bench observed that it had failed to comprehend “what tide of wisdom had prevailed upon lawmakers to add Sub-article 4 [of Article 151] as it served no useful purpose”. It said even it if was assumed that the victim was of a “generally immoral character”, it would not exonerate the man accused of raping or attempting to rape her. The act would still be a crime, the bench said. staff report

 

[Bane Blade]

I think a lot of this violence is a collection of social problems faced by people if they start getting sorted I believe we will manage to live peacefully and prosperously.

 

[muse]

Speaking Social problems, what OUGHT we make of this, is everything in Pakistan open to Islamist agenda? Absolutely, yes -- And Islamism anything more than barabaric punishments?? Show me!



Editorial: The question of entertainment

A debate in the Punjab Assembly on Tuesday has revealed the anxiety that exists among our elected representatives about the death of entertainment in the face of tough Islamic provisions and considerations that are trickling in from areas under the sway of the Taliban. Acting unapologetically, a good number of them called on the government to not ban theatres and dances, “as they are a source of entertainment for the masses and are the culture of Punjab”. Punjab has had a run-in with its “10 pm theatres” that cater to the retiring shopkeepers’ taste for hilarious but somewhat ribald comedy.

Acting morally prim, a lady MPA first demanded through a resolution that action should be taken against theatre performances and dances being presented across the province. The reference here was to theatres not only in Lahore — targeted with medium-sized bombs by elements sympathetic to the Taliban earlier this year — but also many in such cities as Gujranwala and Gujrat that entertain the shopkeeper class after the closure of markets at around 10 pm.

The MPAs who responded to the draft resolution were mostly ladies. The mover of the bill kept insisting that “such theatres and dances as now in vogue are against the teachings of Islam, therefore stern punishment should be given to those involved in the activity in order to save the future generations”. After this some male MPAs also jumped in and made observations that represent the clerical point of view to the point of being trite. One gentleman went to the extent of saying that “such dances and theatres are not a part of our culture, rather they are a step to destroy the future generations”, and added that “airing of dances and theatres on TV channels should be replaced with historical and moral programmes to entertain the public”.

The enthusiasm for inquisition and pietism was cooled by the observation made by a more knowledgeable MPA who reminded the house that the Lahore High Court had already decided that theatre and dance in the province was “entertainment” and not a corruption of morals. He suggested that the matter be directed to the Culture Department which should submit a report on whether the entertainment damned by the MPAs was actually in violation of the policy of culture in the province. The MPAs were however reluctant or unable to engage in any intellectual debate over the issue and kept repeating that theatres were a “legacy of the Q-League” and therefore the present government was not to blame for moral backsliding in Punjab.

The fact is that that there is a Punjab Arts Council with offices in the cities that have cultural activity. It has been fighting a losing battle against local bureaucracy — especially police officers and magistrates out to gain fame through piety who attack theatres during performance to contain fahashi (obscenity) while the actresses caught at the theatre miraculously end up in houses set aside by the moralist officers for their own entertainment. Gujranwala and Gujrat have seen this happen in violation of laws of the province which one “pious” police officer actually refused to obey during a discussion on TV.

Culture is a spiritually balancing factor in society because it is 90 percent entertainment and serves as a safety valve. By closing it to the common man, the state takes risks that it cannot even calculate. But alas that is what has been happening for the past 20 years and is now happening at a galloping pace because the Taliban are here and are claiming Pakistan as their moral domain. Nothing actually changes for the better; it just goes underground. When the political agent in Khyber inspected the house abandoned by Taliban on the run from the Pakistan Army he discovered that the entertainment-banning warriors had been watching xxx movies to while away their boredom