8,000 Chinese students dismissed by US schools

[Brickwall]

i didnt understood instead discarding the students with low grades why cant they arrange extra classes so they get up to speed?

 

[XiangLong]

most chinese students today studying overseas are useless sons and daughters of rich corrupt people. they mainly go there to party, not study. the article is not wrong.

Can I jump in this discussion as a student at the Erasmus University? That the average overseas Chinese student here is a party-goer is only a 1/4 truth... It's true that we do have Chinese sororities like for example, the CSA EUR at our Woudestein campus, which are mostly here for the ''experience''.

However, Andrew Chen makes a very valid point here that the curriculum of any western university that is associated with either AMBA, EQUIS and AACSB is fundamentally different than what any Chinese university offers. One of the fundamental differences here being the fact that almost everything here is digitalized. And this can either be a blessing or a curse. When you are dealing with peer-reviewed databases like JSTOR, Picarta and/or MUSE from where you have to search, filter and get your materials in order to write your paper or thesis, the searching and filtering almost becomes an art of its own.

Even I, who grew up here, had sooooo much trouble finding peer-reviewed, and more importantly, RELEVANT articles in order to back up the things I wrote, the first few times I had to use a database like JSTOR. Now imagine some unlucky foreign freshman enrolling here who still needs to know the in-and-outs of this place, an opportunity he/she probably won't get because you are most likely expected to deliver your first assignment in the very first week of the new semester.

Anyway this was my weekly ritual. My semester consisted out of 8 courses, each lasting 4 weeks. Aside from the work groups we had every week, we had to complete assignments by the end of every week for the first 3 weeks. This would make up 50% of our grade for that course, the other 50% being the exam of everything that we had learned in those 3 weeks during those work groups. And this went on from beginning to end without any vacation weeks, with the exception of a few free days during holidays. By the end of the semester you were expected to have 60 European Credits, and every completed course granted you 7.5 ECs. This would mean that you had to succesfully complete EVERY course with a sufficient grade, or you wouldn't have made it.

The trick here was to get your shit together VERY early on, or you would've build up a shortfall that would eventually be impossible to catch up to. I can't imagine what it would be like if you'd come here as a foreign student as well!

 

[tranquilium]

Hmmm...a research should be conducted to see why.

Meh, not surprising.

The first thing is the language barrier. Not everyone is good at learning languages. It is one thing is fill a proficiency exam, it is another thing entirely to live by yourself across the pacific ocean and rely solely on your mastery to get around daily life and learning. I am from electrical engineering and our reliant on language is generally lower than some of the other major. I once ran into a few students from China and they are from the literature major. That's just plain masochistic if you ask me.

The second thing is age. Graduate student adapts better because they generally already has the experience of living alone, but a lot of young undergraduates simply doesn't have the experience and it can be pretty tough for the unprepared.

The third thing is difference in education system. Chinese and US school systems are simply organized differently. The difference is far from impossible to bridge, but it is still something to get use to and little things add up.

Students dropping out of school in US is nothing surprising and certainly isn't limited to Chinese or even foreign students. Heck, my first year undergraduate class lost something like a 1/4 of its student between first and second year and most of those are most certainly not Chinese students or even Asians. There is also the massacre after the circuit course, something like 1/3 of the class failed and has to retake the course. I still have nightmares about the thermodynamic class this day.

Considering there are 235,000 Chinese students currently studying in US, 8,000 (if it is true) would mean a 3% drop rate. In comparison, US university's freshman retention rate can get as low as 59%. (This means 41% of the freshman failed to get into the second year for various reasons.) University is a not a joke, kids, if you want to achieve academic success, you better work for it.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Its better if they are dismissed rather than letting them stay on and pay hefty bills.

In Australia when I was in uni, I remember reading about the university letting failing international students stay on in order to milk them. Some people are more capable than others and my time with students from.China showed me that majority have difficulty with english.

I was an accounting major and english required for the law and theory components of the degree.

 

[tranquilium]

Its better if they are dismissed rather than letting them stay on and pay hefty bills.

In Australia when I was in uni, I remember reading about the university letting failing international students stay on in order to milk them. Some people are more capable than others and my time with students from.China showed me that majority have difficulty with english.

I was an accounting major and english required for the law and theory components of the degree.

I never had accounting classes, but I did have history and economic classes. There is a lot of intricacies to grasp.

I don't really get why any Chinese student would want to do undergraduate in US. Not only it is much more expensive, it doesn't offer any advantage either. US university's strength lay within its research program, not in its undergraduate education. A lot of those 1 year and 2nd year courses are essentially remedial lesson anyway to makeup for deficiency in high school education.

 

[Aepsilons]

The first thing is the language barrier. Not everyone is good at learning languages. It is one thing is fill a proficiency exam, it is another thing entirely to live by yourself across the pacific ocean and rely solely on your mastery to get around daily life and learning. I am from electrical engineering and our reliant on language is generally lower than some of the other major. I once ran into a few students from China and they are from the literature major. That's just plain masochistic if you ask me.

That was one factor I had considered ; the language barrier as well as the culture shock. Perhaps we shouldn't dismiss the role of living in an alien / foreign society and how it can play a role in depression for college undergrads. Actually during my 1st year in the United States, I had dealt with issue of home sickness and living alone. So I can understand , can empathize with some of the difficulties Chinese students feel when they are adapting to life abroad.

As for literature majors --- I have so much respect for these guys. They're great sources for editing, btw. lol.

The second thing is age. Graduate student adapts better because they generally already has the experience of living alone, but a lot of young undergraduates simply doesn't have the experience and it can be pretty tough for the unprepared.

It depends on the graduate student's ability to cope, but i will agree with you in that generally graduate students have a greater resilience to resist pressures such as family pressure, home sickness, loneliness (a reality!) , cultural shock (at first its an issue, but over time its a no issue). I should state that as a doctoral candidate myself , its important to develop a support group when in academia , maintaining an introvert lifestyle with little to no communication and interaction with others is a primary reason why some grad students experience mental status changes, depression and the like.

In other words, get out there, make friends, and if you're single then go mingle! lol.

The third thing is difference in education system. Chinese and US school systems are simply organized differently. The difference is far from impossible to bridge, but it is still something to get use to and little things add up.

True. I think in the United States' Academic institutions there is a greater emphasis on EBP (Evidence Based Practice) as well CBL (Conceptual based learning) as compared to other academic systems.

Considering there are 235,000 Chinese students currently studying in US, 8,000 (if it is true) would mean a 3% drop rate. In comparison, US university's freshman retention rate can get as low as 59%. (This means 41% of the freshman failed to get into the second year for various reasons.) University is a not a joke, kids, if you want to achieve academic success, you better work for it.

Sure, good point.

I never had accounting classes, but I did have history and economic classes. There is a lot of intricacies to grasp.

I don't really get why any Chinese student would want to do undergraduate in US. Not only it is much more expensive, it doesn't offer any advantage either. US university's strength lay within its research program, not in its undergraduate education. A lot of those 1 year and 2nd year courses are essentially remedial lesson anyway to makeup for deficiency in high school education.

If i may add, another strength in American academic institutions is their Liberal Arts Foundations.

 

[tranquilium]

That was one factor I had considered ; the language barrier as well as the culture shock. Perhaps we shouldn't dismiss the role of living in an alien / foreign society and how it can play a role in depression for college undergrads. Actually during my 1st year in the United States, I had dealt with issue of home sickness and living alone. So I can understand , can empathize with some of the difficulties Chinese students feel when they are adapting to life abroad.

As for literature majors --- I have so much respect for these guys. They're great sources for editing, btw. lol.

Argh, Don't remind me of the the editing. During my first year undergraduate study, one of the professor asked, in the first class "how many of you picked electrical engineering because you don't want to take English class anymore". Understandably, a huge portion of the class raise their hand, just for fun. However, as we later found out, engineers actually require a lot of written skills. It is a different style from liberal arts majors, but nonetheless you require a lot of it. I still remember all the time I spent writing reports, gets sent back for editing and repeat. Pure frustration.

Though, like many frustrating things in academics, once you get past it, it is a great skill to have and you wouldn't trade anything for it. (That, and you get to see your juniors squirm just like you did)

It depends on the graduate student's ability to cope, but i will agree with you in that generally graduate students have a greater resilience to resist pressures such as family pressure, home sickness, loneliness (a reality!) , cultural shock (at first its an issue, but over time its a no issue). I should state that as a doctoral candidate myself , its important to develop a support group when in academia , maintaining an introvert lifestyle with little to no communication and interaction with others is a primary reason why some grad students experience mental status changes, depression and the like.
In other words, get out there, make friends, and if you're single then go mingle! lol.

That's actually a quite serious issue. In this day and age, a student can easily slip away and lock himself/herself in the room and still get work down. In other words, there are too few things that forces the student to come out and interact. Needless to say that is a breeding ground for mental issues.

I won't mention names, but here is a story I heard. One of my mother's colleague has daughter. She is about mid-20s and was attending grad school in Texas. The girl has a serious introvert problem. So one day we heard that she quit the program because she couldn't go on. The reason? She got criticized during a presentation practice session. I made sure I got the story correctly, yeah, she quit, because someone criticized her presentation, during the practice session. It sounds ridicules, but real world can be stranger than fiction.

True. I think in the United States' Academic institutions there is a greater emphasis on EBP (Evidence Based Practice) as well CBL (Conceptual based learning) as compared to other academic systems.

There is also the joke we often tell about certain classes that are not very well prepared. It goes something like this:

Sure, good point.

If i may add, another strength in American academic institutions is their Liberal Arts Foundations.

Funny story about American academics, math department is under the college of liberal arts.

How long until you get your degree? My Ph.D is about 1 year and a half away if everything goes smoothly.

 

[Aepsilons]

Argh, Don't remind me of the the editing. During my first year undergraduate study, one of the professor asked, in the first class "how many of you picked electrical engineering because you don't want to take English class anymore". Understandably, a huge portion of the class raise their hand, just for fun. However, as we later found out, engineers actually require a lot of written skills. It is a different style from liberal arts majors, but nonetheless you require a lot of it. I still remember all the time I spent writing reports, gets sent back for editing and repeat. Pure frustration.

Though, like many frustrating things in academics, once you get past it, it is a great skill to have and you wouldn't trade anything for it. (That, and you get to see your juniors squirm just like you did)

lol. I can relate with the pure frustration aspect about editing , tho i can't complain because i friends who were willing to edit papers for me -- provided that i cook food for them , lol. Quid pro quo, eh?

That's actually a quite serious issue. In this day and age, a student can easily slip away and lock himself/herself in the room and still get work down. In other words, there are too few things that forces the student to come out and interact. Needless to say that is a breeding ground for mental issues.

I won't mention names, but here is a story I heard. One of my mother's colleague has daughter. She is about mid-20s and was attending grad school in Texas. The girl has a serious introvert problem. So one day we heard that she quit the program because she couldn't go on. The reason? She got criticized during a presentation practice session. I made sure I got the story correctly, yeah, she quit, because someone criticized her presentation, during the practice session. It sounds ridicules, but real world can be stranger than fiction.

Yes, it is a real issue and as a Psychologist i deal with this on daily basis when lecturing students and having to hear them during meetings behind close doors. The issue with peer pressure and academic-related stress is all too real and you will be surprised that the ones who are having suicide ideation are students whom we might think would be 'unlikely' to be depressed, ergo, the ones who are quite lively in class. This is why bio self-feedback is so important for students , it helps to relieve these intrapsychic tensions one experiences in the course of studies and/ or work.

And yes, i do hope that your mother's colleague's daughter gets better. Therapy can be useful for her , i tend to impress my clients on the importance of psychosocial therapeutic modules than psychopharmacology since therapy provides a long term solution or many mental health disorders.

 

[Filipino]

This headline/title is not quite misleading, but its focus on the raw number rather than proportion made me groan

There were lots of Chinese students at my alma mater (an urban campus in the west coast is all I'm going to say) and what struck me was the seeming lack of support that the university gave them. It was as if they were ignored as soon as the school had their money. I wouldn't actually know for sure, but that's what it looked like to me at the time. But most of the international students were able to persevere and succeed anyway.

I assumed then that they self-organized and gave each other the support they needed. I wonder if the 3% that don't make it were the loners that weren't reached out to/couldn't reach out to the other Chinese students and professors on campus.

 

[Aepsilons]

How long until you get your degree? My Ph.D is about 1 year and a half away if everything goes smoothly.

Currently writing my Ph.D Dissertation right now. Just finished the literature review section, now conducting tests. I have about 8 months left. If all goes well. lol.

***knocks on wood***

 

[tranquilium]

This headline/title is not quite misleading, but its focus on the raw number rather than proportion made me groan

There were lots of Chinese students at my alma mater (an urban campus in the west coast is all I'm going to say) and what struck me was the seeming lack of support that the university gave them. It was as if they were ignored as soon as the school had their money. I wouldn't actually know for sure, but that's what it looked like to me at the time. But most of the international students were able to persevere and succeed anyway.

I assumed then that they self-organized and gave each other the support they needed. I wonder if the 3% that don't make it were the loners that weren't reached out to/couldn't reach out to the other Chinese students and professors on campus.

It is not a problem limited to the Chinese student. International students in general tends to have this kind of problem. Student from English speaking country fair better since they do not have to overcome the language barrier, but even they have overcome the other issues. In fact, not even domestic students are immune to the loner issues caused by the lack of social interaction.

Some of the psychological issues we talked about really only crop up due to the change in the way people live. Technology brought a lot of conveniences to our lives, but it also brought in never before seen (okay, rarely before seen) issues.

 

[jhungary]

A thread had already opened on this topic.

U.S. Schools Expelled 8,000 Chinese Students

 

[MULUBJA]

Low GPA coupled with dishoesty in exam. Very obvious.

I dont trust China PISA results after reading this.

What is in china which is trust worty. This is no surprise to me.

Currently writing my Ph.D Dissertation right now. Just finished the literature review section, now conducting tests. I have about 8 months left. If all goes well. lol.

***knocks on wood***

Which Subject?

 

[DaiViet]

I dont trust China PISA results after reading this.

I dont trust their pisa on the beginning if they conduct test on nation scale they would be on par with U.S, no way they can beat Japan or South Korea.

 

[Hyperion]

If ToI prints one word, buy one tonne of salt and gulp it down in one go...........