Capt.Popeye
ELITE MEMBER
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- Joined
- Apr 5, 2010
- Messages
- 11,937
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- 12
Thanks Doc, straight from the hip. But to the heart of the matter.
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Now what this means? To any muslim Religion > State, and also no muslim can worship to any one unlike you hindus where u can worship anyone, even a DOG
Lol Zia bashing? You guy need a life he's probly the only true leader that we have rest are waste....
Hope you liberal find that leader that your wet deems produced ........ LOL..... I mean what has your soo called democratically leaders did so far?
Empty promises while there Swiss accounts get bigger and bigger .....
The only people that can fix Pakistan are the ones who are willing to die for there country not some not some Kusra behind the desk..... Ooopssss did I say that?
While I understand the perfectly human reaction of a nation and its people to find a national scapegoat for the mess it finds itself in, I think the luxury of distance and time and the absence of direct stakes in the issue would allow most to see that no one man can change the course of a nation.
No one man can magically hypnotize 170 million humans to do his bidding. It may be that such a man is in a position of power, but you cannot change the throb of the heart, the rationality of intelligent thought, or the morality of the soul of a nation if it went against the very ethos and being of the collective people. People get the leaders they want. The leaders they need. The leaders they deserve.
There can never be political vacuum in any group or society, and more often than not, the one who rises above the others, does so to fill a perceived void. And the leader rises from amongst the people he goes forward to lead. He is never an import, never an inorganic hire. So for Pakistanis to blame Zia for all thier ills, is similar to Germans being all apologetic and contrite about Hitler and the post-war generation wanting to wash that stain permanently from their national psyche by magical disassociation and villification.
Just as post WWI German wounded national pride and prussian supremist psyche was fertile ground ripe for a Hitler to happen, so too was post 1971 Pakistan fertile ground for a Zia and his form of rebound Islamism to happen.
IMHO, that is the bitter pill that young post-Bangladesh Pakistanis today find difficult to swallow.
I remember thinking that the WORST thing about the Russians invading Afghanistan was that it compelled the U.S. to support this man.What a travesty, this man initiated almost all the problems that we face today. Words cannot express how angry I get when I look at this man's wicked face. He was a 'weak' soldier, he did not achieve anything noticeable in career.
He was the only Pakistani general who commanded armored units to advance into Israeli-held territory.However he had killed a few Palestinians during the Black September incident and won the support of the Arabs and their masters the Americans.
You lived through 1971 and you didn't think the country was regressing then?He came to power and the whole country went into a state of regression.
It seems quite popular for Pakistani generals to send their sons and nephews to work in the banking industry.His son got a job at BCCI and Zia with Akhtar (I admire him though) made a large amount of money -
“God helps those who help themselves” is what Benjamin Franklin said. Now there was a man who knew something about overthrowing tyrants and restoring democracy!May God save us from the seeds that this man sowed.
I remember thinking that the WORST thing about the Russians invading Afghanistan was that it compelled the U.S. to support this man.
US had a big hand in all the mess that this man initiated and look how we have suffered today because of it. There is a lesson to be learnt here, never support a tyrant, you never know how it can come back to haunt you.
He was the only Pakistani general who commanded armored units to advance into Israeli-held territory.
Didn't actually achieve anything did he, he killed more palestinians then Israeli soldiers so my point about him not achieving much is still valid. However he did work with the Israeli's later to fight against the soviets.
You lived through 1971 and you didn't think the country was regressing then?
I was born in 1987, being born in a Pakistan that did not have Bangladesh as a part of it is the only Pakistan I know. Even before 1971, there were talks of separating Bangladesh as it was not feasible. Being all the way there and between us was our enemy so it wasn't very ideal. Once a BBC journalist commented that the only thing common between East and West Pakistan is that there is a PIA flight that flies back and forth.
It seems quite popular for Pakistani generals to send their sons and nephews to work in the banking industry.
Apart from Zia and Akhtar Abdur Rahman, who else are you referring to.
“God helps those who help themselves” is what Benjamin Franklin said. Now there was a man who knew something about overthrowing tyrants and restoring democracy!
We have examples and we shall do the same.
Too often our democratically-elected leaders have chosen to side with tyrants out of expedience or even personal liking. I wish I could say that was over, but with Obama, who knows?...never support a tyrant, you never know how it can come back to haunt you.
He first cooperated (perhaps negotiated) with Israel during Black September when he sent tanks through Israeli-held territory to surround Arafat's forces....he did work with the Israeli's later to fight against the soviets.
Ah.I was born in 1987, being born in a Pakistan that did not have Bangladesh as a part of it is the only Pakistan I know.
What made it unfeasible was the unwillingness of too many western Pakistani politicians to observe the norms of democratic governance.Even before 1971, there were talks of separating Bangladesh as it was not feasible. Being all the way there and between us was our enemy so it wasn't very ideal.
Too often our democratically-elected leaders have chosen to side with tyrants out of expedience or even personal liking. I wish I could say that was over, but with Obama, who knows?
He first cooperated (perhaps negotiated) with Israel during Black September when he sent tanks through Israeli-held territory to surround Arafat's forces.
What made it unfeasible was the unwillingness of too many western Pakistani politicians to observe the norms of democratic governance.
.... funny how he was called weak? beacuse he really gave india isreal russia all problems and to us that is good news ...... i do not denie he dident look at the economy that much as his previous presdient did but eh?it was that time that pakistan had to built her security more.....
zia led us out of political gangs if you evey noticed that once musharaff left pakistan crime rate went UPPP
why? bhutto just like the ZULFIKAR bhutto but i admire him ... we all have mistakes.... what zia did? dident let the grizley bear take over us with the elephant .... gave more attention to national security which we needed.....
he did make millions but they did not go into his pocket but to the country he loved .... funny how he was called weak? beacuse he really gave india isreal russia all problems and to us that is good news
...... i do not denie he dident look at the economy that much as his previous presdient did but eh?it was that time that pakistan had to built her security more..... but i do want to see some links supporting that he was involved in drugs and putting money in his pockets and being a coward