33 years since Zia came to power

[Capt.Popeye]

Thanks Doc, straight from the hip. But to the heart of the matter.

 

[RescueRanger]

Now what this means? To any muslim Religion > State, and also no muslim can worship to any one unlike you hindus where u can worship anyone, even a DOG

Firstly, you sir represent all that is wrong with the mentality of certain Pakistanis and Muslims alike. If you cannot hold a civilised discussion without resorting to futile attempts at hurling insults and petty name calling, then please refrain from posting.

Words empty as the wind are best left unsaid

And just want to add, ZIA was a total disaster.

 

[Old School]

This is the blackest day in our history. If 14th of August is a day of cheer and jubilation , this is the day to mourn the death of a modern republic when the rule of a dark age was imposed upon all Pakistanis. There is no language to describe the magnitude of catastrophe brought by Zia on Pakistan as a nation of immense potential. Even though he perished , his evil spirit continues to haunt us each and every second till date. Pakistan's future will never be on the right course unless we undo all the evil spell of Zia and opt for redemption.

 

[jha]

The wrongdoings of ZIA will continue to haunt Pakistan unless religion and politics are separated..Religion+Politics is one lethal mix.

 

[T-Faz]

Lol Zia bashing? You guy need a life he's probly the only true leader that we have rest are waste....

What is so distinguishable that he achieved in his tenure. As far as I am concerned, his time saw the rise of sectarian violence, corruption increased, poverty increased and led to the poverty bomb in the 90's. There were no reforms that had a positive effect but rather everything was a catastrophe of sorts.

Hope you liberal find that leader that your wet deems produced ........ LOL..... I mean what has your soo called democratically leaders did so far?

What did Zia do?

Empty promises while there Swiss accounts get bigger and bigger .....

Zia was one of the most corrupt dictators in charge. He made millions by selling american weaponry to Iran, Iraq, China and others. He made substantial profits from the drug trade and Fazle Haq was his personal drug baron. If Fazle Haq and Akhtar can have billions, Zia must be on a whole different level.

The only people that can fix Pakistan are the ones who are willing to die for there country not some not some Kusra behind the desk..... Ooopssss did I say that?

Funny how Zia was termed a weak soldier and was repeatedly called a coward. His vice was that he was cunning as hell. I am glad Zia went the way he did because he would have unleashed true hell on our nation.

 

[T-Faz]

While I understand the perfectly human reaction of a nation and its people to find a national scapegoat for the mess it finds itself in, I think the luxury of distance and time and the absence of direct stakes in the issue would allow most to see that no one man can change the course of a nation.

Who would you blame for the mess India is in and has been with its many insurgencies, rampant corruption, inflation and what not. I mean it would be good to hear your point of view but when your own nations is in a mess, how can you state overtly generalized statement to an otherwise simple matter. We suffer from similar problems and though they have been varying degrees of problem, the problem can rear its ugly head back into national spotlight. Our problems got a boost from the WOT in our neighborhood, Zia had a big role to play then and that is why the problem is attributed to him. It is continuation of what he actually did.

No one man can magically hypnotize 170 million humans to do his bidding. It may be that such a man is in a position of power, but you cannot change the throb of the heart, the rationality of intelligent thought, or the morality of the soul of a nation if it went against the very ethos and being of the collective people. People get the leaders they want. The leaders they need. The leaders they deserve.

Zia used Islam as a means to forward his agenda, he was a dictator if you might have known and he was one who was aligned with all the religious parties. This allowed him to use a mixture of religious and local sentiment to gain grass root support among the masses. However, many were still against him and there were a number of attempts against his government. Even the generals tried to initiate a coup against Zia but unfortunately failed.

There can never be political vacuum in any group or society, and more often than not, the one who rises above the others, does so to fill a perceived void. And the leader rises from amongst the people he goes forward to lead. He is never an import, never an inorganic hire. So for Pakistanis to blame Zia for all thier ills, is similar to Germans being all apologetic and contrite about Hitler and the post-war generation wanting to wash that stain permanently from their national psyche by magical disassociation and villification.

I am a little confused, maybe a democratically elected leader might rise in the way you have described but dictators do so at their own will and not because of their support. Bhutto rejected his file a number of times for the tole COAS but Zia had support from the Middle Eastern powerful and also the Americans. But even if you stick to what you have said, Germans did well to distance themselves from that Hitler and we should do the same to move in a different direction.

Just as post WWI German wounded national pride and prussian supremist psyche was fertile ground ripe for a Hitler to happen, so too was post 1971 Pakistan fertile ground for a Zia and his form of rebound Islamism to happen.

IMHO, that is the bitter pill that young post-Bangladesh Pakistanis today find difficult to swallow.

Most of us were not even of the age to rationalize what Zia did or were born when he actually caused the harm. What we do associate with him are his actions and the problems that it created for Pakistan. Should not not blame the man who has done something wrong. Its common sense to blame the one who exacerbated problems within our society.

 

[Solomon2]

What a travesty, this man initiated almost all the problems that we face today. Words cannot express how angry I get when I look at this man's wicked face. He was a 'weak' soldier, he did not achieve anything noticeable in career.

I remember thinking that the WORST thing about the Russians invading Afghanistan was that it compelled the U.S. to support this man.

However he had killed a few Palestinians during the Black September incident and won the support of the Arabs and their masters the Americans.

He was the only Pakistani general who commanded armored units to advance into Israeli-held territory.

He came to power and the whole country went into a state of regression.

You lived through 1971 and you didn't think the country was regressing then?

His son got a job at BCCI and Zia with Akhtar (I admire him though) made a large amount of money -

It seems quite popular for Pakistani generals to send their sons and nephews to work in the banking industry.

May God save us from the seeds that this man sowed.

“God helps those who help themselves” is what Benjamin Franklin said. Now there was a man who knew something about overthrowing tyrants and restoring democracy!

 

[T-Faz]

I remember thinking that the WORST thing about the Russians invading Afghanistan was that it compelled the U.S. to support this man.

US had a big hand in all the mess that this man initiated and look how we have suffered today because of it. There is a lesson to be learnt here, never support a tyrant, you never know how it can come back to haunt you.

He was the only Pakistani general who commanded armored units to advance into Israeli-held territory.

Didn't actually achieve anything did he, he killed more palestinians then Israeli soldiers so my point about him not achieving much is still valid. However he did work with the Israeli's later to fight against the soviets.

You lived through 1971 and you didn't think the country was regressing then?

I was born in 1987, being born in a Pakistan that did not have Bangladesh as a part of it is the only Pakistan I know. Even before 1971, there were talks of separating Bangladesh as it was not feasible. Being all the way there and between us was our enemy so it wasn't very ideal. Once a BBC journalist commented that the only thing common between East and West Pakistan is that there is a PIA flight that flies back and forth.

It seems quite popular for Pakistani generals to send their sons and nephews to work in the banking industry.

Apart from Zia and Akhtar Abdur Rahman, who else are you referring to.

“God helps those who help themselves” is what Benjamin Franklin said. Now there was a man who knew something about overthrowing tyrants and restoring democracy!

We have examples and we shall do the same.

 

[Solomon2]

...never support a tyrant, you never know how it can come back to haunt you.

Too often our democratically-elected leaders have chosen to side with tyrants out of expedience or even personal liking. I wish I could say that was over, but with Obama, who knows?

...he did work with the Israeli's later to fight against the soviets.

He first cooperated (perhaps negotiated) with Israel during Black September when he sent tanks through Israeli-held territory to surround Arafat's forces.

I was born in 1987, being born in a Pakistan that did not have Bangladesh as a part of it is the only Pakistan I know.

Ah.

Even before 1971, there were talks of separating Bangladesh as it was not feasible. Being all the way there and between us was our enemy so it wasn't very ideal.

What made it unfeasible was the unwillingness of too many western Pakistani politicians to observe the norms of democratic governance.

 

[mehru]

Zia was a total disaster. We should always remember him just like we remember our heroes.

 

[T-Faz]

Too often our democratically-elected leaders have chosen to side with tyrants out of expedience or even personal liking. I wish I could say that was over, but with Obama, who knows?

Indeed, you have to wait till the show is over to see its results.

He first cooperated (perhaps negotiated) with Israel during Black September when he sent tanks through Israeli-held territory to surround Arafat's forces.

Zia and his successor Nawaz cooperated with Israel a number of time, shame though is the fact that they malign Israel for support at home.

What made it unfeasible was the unwillingness of too many western Pakistani politicians to observe the norms of democratic governance.

Pakistan was a military dictatorship for most part and our leaders were wrongfully concentrating on west alone. I agree with what you said though , the west overlooked the east creating an environment of discontent.

 

[zagahaga]

hey t faz

zia led us out of political gangs if you evey noticed that once musharaff left pakistan crime rate went UPPPwhy? bhutto just like the ZULFIKAR bhutto but i admire him ... we all have mistakes.... what zia did? dident let the grizley bear take over us with the elephant .... gave more attention to national security which we needed..... he did make millions but they did not go into his pocket but to the country he loved .... funny how he was called weak? beacuse he really gave india isreal russia all problems and to us that is good news ...... i do not denie he dident look at the economy that much as his previous presdient did but eh?it was that time that pakistan had to built her security more..... but i do want to see some links supporting that he was involved in drugs and putting money in his pockets and being a coward

 

[Old School]

ZA Bhutto was hanged because he was unwilling to play Pakistan as a pawn in the cold war. He was removed , hanged and Zia started terror campaign inside Pakistan and in Afghanistan ( through Rabbani, Hekmat Yaar and Masud).

 

[deckingraj]

.... funny how he was called weak? beacuse he really gave india isreal russia all problems and to us that is good news ...... i do not denie he dident look at the economy that much as his previous presdient did but eh?it was that time that pakistan had to built her security more.....

This is a lame excuse my friend.....B/W let me ask are you secure now??? Even a kindergarden kid can tell you that you need to be economically strong and that is your real strength....Just imagine the plight of your country today and think had you been economically strong without radicalization where this mineral rich land often called passage to central Asia would have been???

 

[T-Faz]

zia led us out of political gangs if you evey noticed that once musharaff left pakistan crime rate went UPPP

What Political gangs, Bhutto's party was the first of it kind and did not have any opposition, what gangs are you talking about. What has Musharraf got to do with this, we are discussing Zia here and Zia killed democracy in Pakistan by carrying out an unwanted coup.

why? bhutto just like the ZULFIKAR bhutto but i admire him ... we all have mistakes.... what zia did? dident let the grizley bear take over us with the elephant .... gave more attention to national security which we needed.....

What national security, during Zia's days there was a bomb blast a day and thousands were killed. Read all this and then comment.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan

The Washington Post | July 16, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq today linked two massive terrorist bombings that killed at least 72 here last night to agents opposed to Pakistan's support for Afghan guerrillas fighting against the Kabul regime and Soviet forces there.

Business and government life came to a halt in reaction to the bombings, which also left 140 hospitalized, including 15 listed in critical condition tonight.

Zia, who flew to Karachi today from Islamabad, was able to visit survivors in only one of two major hospitals because angry students were demonstrating at the other.

Zia Blames Kabul for Terrorist Blast in Pakistan - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Pakistan's Premier Points At India in Fatal Bombings

The Washington Post | July 17, 1987 | Richard M. Weintraub |

Pakistani Prime Minister Mohammed Khan Junejo said tonight that India and not Afghanistan may have been behind the two car bombings Tuesday that killed at least 72 persons here.

Junejo, who cut short a state visit to Japan to rush back to Karachi, appeared to be distancing himself from President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, who said yesterday that he believed the bombing was related to Pakistan's support for Afghan refugees and that recent bombings were "only the beginning" of a severe test for this country.

The two bomb blasts, and earlier ones in Rawalpindi, Lahore, and Peshawar

Bombs kill 7 as Pakistani opposition hits Zia's rule

Chicago Sun-Times | July 6, 1987 | Copyright

KARACHI A series of bombs killed seven people and wounded at least 50 Sunday in Pakistan as opposition parties held protest rallies to mark the 10th anniversary of a coup that brought President Mohammad Zia ul-Haq to power.

Police said the explosions came around midday in Lahore.

ZIA TIES AFGHANS TO KARACHI BLASTS AS THE TOLL INCREASES TO 75 DEATHS

KARACHI, Pakistan - President Mohammed Zia ul-Haq said yesterday that Afghan agents were responsible for bombings Tuesday that killed 75 persons. It was the deadliest terrorist bombing in Pakistan's history.

Police and rescue workers, meanwhile, removed the last of the bodies from the wreckage of the fashionable Saddar market and residential area, which was teeming with shoppers, commuters and street vendors when the bombs exploded. More than 300 people were injured.

At Karachi's two central hospitals, relatives tried to identify victims from photographs posted on bulletin boards.

The rest of Pakistan's largest city was virtually shut down, as officials

he did make millions but they did not go into his pocket but to the country he loved .... funny how he was called weak? beacuse he really gave india isreal russia all problems and to us that is good news

He made millions that went to his pocket, his son said that Akhtar Abdur Rahman's son was a billionaire. The response given by Akhtars son must have made Ijaz squirm. Zia did not put any of his money into the economy, he was living a lavish lifestyle on stolen money.

...... i do not denie he dident look at the economy that much as his previous presdient did but eh?it was that time that pakistan had to built her security more..... but i do want to see some links supporting that he was involved in drugs and putting money in his pockets and being a coward

Again what security are you referring to, I gave you news articles from that time to prove you wrong. Are you talking about this security.

Ojhri Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will send you the other info privately.