20 aircraft to be inducted in PIA fleet very soon

[Edevelop]

Right before handing it over to Private Sector (i.e. Sharif cronies) PIA will be beefed up from Public money. It's the ultra-rich who will reap the benefits; it's the ultra-poor who will have to pick up the tab.

Tell us what would you like to do. Continue the way its run under 'peoples entity' ? I don't think it has worked in the past nor i think it will in the future. Plain and Simple. We the people of Pakistan are the real issue in everything. Whether our people are in the Government or in some other work place, we cannot work as a team.

Everyone in our society is worried about making individual profits so it only makes sense that you go and privatize an institution like PIA, which is in the state of collapse.

Obviously that someone who is going to buy it will be coming from a rich background ! And why should it matter. I mean whether you sell it to a foreign investor or to local corporates. either way, It goes back to the same thing. Individual profits will always be made. The real difference that you will see between public owned entity and private owned entity is the effort to make it sucessful

Negative. emirates also lease airplanes.

Maybe they do to some extent but Arabs in general have a habit of spending billions of dollars of cash. There is no example like them in this world.

 

[user1]

Tell us what would like to do. Continue the way its run under 'peoples entity' ? I don't think it has worked in the past nor i think it will in the future. Plain and Simple. We the people of Pakistan are the real issue in everything. Whether our people are in the Government or in some other work place, we cannot work as a team.

Everyone in our society is worried about making individual profits so it only makes sense that you go and privatize an institution like PIA,

Obviously that someone who is going to buy it will be coming from a rich background ! And why should it matter. I mean there are those who don't mind selling it to a foreign investor and those who don't mind giving it to local corporates. Either way, It goes back to the same thing. Individual profits will always be made, however the difference that you will see between public owned entity and private owned entity is the effort to make it successful.

Infact, PIA - & PTV- were profit making institutions once. It went into loss only when Nawaz Sharif & Party decided to buy it. But to put it on the table, they first had to make it a loss making organization so that they could buy it for pennies. Just remember, they have done that with Sugar Mills in Punjab which were sold for a symbolic amount of 1 Pakistani Rupee. With PIA stakes were higher, so they had to play a bit longer. Unfortunately, the loss making mechanisms which were installed by Nawaz & Co. were not reformed, so, PIA stayed in perpetual bad management. If PIA has made profits in the past as a Public organization, it can do it in the future also with good management.

Plus, when we are so many new planes in the service, they may be able to transform it into a profit making company. My main objection is investing so much Public money right before privatisation.

The other thing is that, there are other options available for selling large organizations. One is to sell the shares to employees, making the organization partly or wholly employee owned. This always helps to bring down the bad management practices and corruption. There are plenty of such examples of such worker co-operatives.

Worker cooperative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the very concept of "leasing" is absurdity and that too despite depreciation b/c at the end of the day there's nothing to show for it (the costs associated with leasing)

how about curing the problem by firing non-essential staff and privatizing the airline completely - which is what any SANE country would ensure happened.

Pakistan should seek cooperation with Turkish Air, which has now become a member of Star Alliance and is one of the most widely used airliners today (who would have imagined that 15-20 years ago)

 

[Edevelop]

The other thing is that, there are other options available for selling large organizations. One is to sell the shares to employees, making the organization partly or wholly employee owned. This always helps to bring down the bad management practices and corruption. There are plenty of such examples of such worker co-operatives.

Worker cooperative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Worker cooperative is a good idea but first move the base. No business in Karachi thrives due to law and order and i don't think the past was in this state. Considering Islamabad as our capital city, borders three provinces of the country, and now the new Airport almost established, it should be considered

 

[imiakhtar]

Lease is a good thing. It gives you financial and fleet flexibility. The only people in the world who don't like to work that way are oil rich Arabs.

Leasing aircraft isn't always a good thing. Many airlines have huge amounts of debt due to lease obligations.

About half of Saudia's A320 and B777 is leased. Most of their 747s are least.

Kuwait is home to a large aircraft lessor and a handful of Kuwaiti airlines' aircraft are leased.

Oman air operates a number of leased 737s.

Most of Gulf Airs airbus aircraft are leased from ILFC and as mentioned below:

Negative. emirates also lease airplanes

Correct.

Maybe they do to some extent but Arabs in general have a habit of spending billions of dollars of cash. There is no example like them in this world.

Emirates owns only 5 or 6 aircraft.

 

[Edevelop]

Leasing aircraft isn't always a good thing. Many airlines have huge amounts of debt due to lease obligations.

If you see RyanAir and EasyJet, the low cost airlines of Europe, almost all of their fleet of Boeing 737-800s and A-320s are leased. Check their annual revenue and the figure is in Billions of Pounds.

 

[imiakhtar]

If you see RyanAir and EasJet, the low cost airlines of Europe, almost all of their fleet of Boeing 737-800s and A-320s are leased. Check their annual revenue and the figure is in Billions of Pounds.

As I said, you can not say leasing will work for all, it won't.

Also, the operating revenues are meaningless. It's the margins you need to keep an eye on.

The two airlines you mentioned have large fleet turn over rates for one big reason - can you think of it?

 

[razgriz19]

Tell us what would you like to do. Continue the way its run under 'peoples entity' ? I don't think it has worked in the past nor i think it will in the future. Plain and Simple. We the people of Pakistan are the real issue in everything. Whether our people are in the Government or in some other work place, we cannot work as a team.

Everyone in our society is worried about making individual profits so it only makes sense that you go and privatize an institution like PIA, which is in the state of collapse.

Obviously that someone who is going to buy it will be coming from a rich background ! And why should it matter. I mean whether you sell it to a foreign investor or to local corporates. either way, It goes back to the same thing. Individual profits will always be made. The real difference that you will see between public owned entity and private owned entity is the effort to make it sucessful



Maybe they do to some extent but Arabs in general have a habit of spending billions of dollars of cash. There is no example like them in this world.

Emirates average fleet age is around 6 years. They have a policy of keeping their fleet age very low. In next 5 years, they will start to retire A380s. Emirates lease aircraft for 6-8 years then they retire them.
This is why they "bought" hundreds of 777X and A350s, so that when they start to arrive, earlier 777 can be replaced thus keeping the fleet age low.

 

[imiakhtar]

In next 5 years, they will start to retire A380s

That's incorrect. See below

Emirates lease aircraft for 6-8 years then they retire them.

Most of EK's aircraft are operated on financial/operational leases. These tend to range from 10-13 years. All of the A380s have 10+ year lease periods (EK accepted first A380 in fall 2008).

This is why they "bought" hundreds of 777X and A350s, so that when they start to arrive, earlier 777 can be replaced thus keeping the fleet age low.

That looks likely. The priority for Emirates will be to replace current A330, A340 and 772/3 with 77W. The 77W shall be replaced by the 777X and A350.

Whilst you are correct in pointing out the low average fleet age, please note that this fleet age is only kept low by the constant A380 and 77W deliveries. Emirates has no qualms in operating many older, non standard aircraft such as the A330 and 772/3 which they took from delivery in 1999 and 1996 respectively. This is further supported by the fact that they have MRO facilities licensed to carry out level d checks which many of the A330s and 772/3s have been through.

 

[Jf Thunder]

No one will buy them.

sell them as scrap metal?

You haven't got a lot of money.

i think we can buy two or three?