Windjammer
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1965 When IAF was put to sword
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Windjammer
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Operation Grand Slam was launched across the CFL in the Chamb sector of Kashmir, towards Jaurian and Akhnur, at first light on 01 September, 1965 by Pak Army's 12 Division under its GOC Major General Akhtar Malik. By early afternoon, they had advanced more than 10-15 miles.
PAF maintained continuous Combat Air Patrols (Caps) comprising pairs of F-86s supported by single F-104A Starfighters, keeping about 10 miles away from the border to avoid provocation, but ready to deal immediately with any attempt at IAF intervention in the land battle. The plan was to withdraw the CAP by 1700 hours if the IAF had not reacted by then. The IAF however, remained conspicuously absent till afternoon which was enigmatic and added to the tension. That's when Nur Khan, the PAF C-in-C decided to obtain assessments of the battle area from personal observation. He took off in an Army L-19 aircraft from Gujrat. On landing back from the reconnaissance flight, the Air Marshal decided to extend the CAP beyond 1700 hours. His observation was that Pakistani troops, tanks, guns and vehicles were too temptingly exposed for the IAF to ignore for long.
At 1720 hours, Army reported that IAF was indeed attacking the advancing Pakistani forces in the Chamb sector. Within minutes, Squadron Leader Sarfraz Rafiqui, Officer Commanding No 5 Squadron and Flight Lieutenant Imtiaz Bhatti, Flight Commander No 15 Squadron were scrambled and their F-86 Sabres were directed towards the enemy. The rest is narrated by Bhatti:
... Rafiqui and I were told to proceed to Chamb area where the enemy aircraft were attacking our advancing troops. Rafiqui's radio had packed up for a while on the way up. Over the area we descended fast, looking all round and below us for the enemy aircraft. At about this time we also learnt that the C-in-C was flying around the area in an L-19. We did not see him but later on discovered that he had left the area a little while earlier.
Our search succeeded and I spotted two enemy aircraft. They were crossing underneath us and I informed Rafiqui about it. He immediately acknowledged ... 'contact'! Rafiqui said he was going for them. While covering his tail, I spotted two Canberra's 9 O'clock from me at 5-6,000 feet. Then I spotted another two Vampires trying to get behind Rafiqui. I instinctively broke off and positioned myself behind these two. In the meantime Rafiqui had knocked down one of his two targets and was chasing the other. About now I had my sights on one of my own and was holding my fire. I was anxiously waiting for my leader to bring down his second and clear out of my way. When the Vampire I had targeted, closed in on Rafiqui too dangerously, I called out to him to break left. Within the next moment, Rafiqui shot down his second, reacting to my call and broke left. Simultaneously, I pressed my trigger and hit one of them. Having disposed of one I shifted my sight on the other and fired at him. In the chase I had gone as low as 200 feet off the ground when I shot my second prey, he ducked and went into the trees. We had bagged four in our first engagement with the Indians....'
More than thirty years after the 1965 War, the Indian version of the engagement is available in an article 'Four-Nil at Chamb' on the Internet in the programme Bharat-Rakshak-Vayu Sena. Whereas the account admits the loss of four IAF Vampires over Chamb on 1st September, some interesting revelations are made. Portions of which are quoted here:-
'On September 01, the Pakistani artillery started shelling the Indian forward positions, starting 0330 hours, the shelling was exceptionally heavy and continued till 0630 hours. At which time a Pakistani Army force of two Infantry Brigades and two Armoured regiments started their attack on the Indian positions. 3rd Mahar was the forward most battalion and it bore the brunt of the attack along with a solitary squadron of AMX-13 tanks of 20th Lancers. Inspite of their heroic defence the sheer strength of the enemy made its presence felt. No artillery support was given as the Pak shelling had put the guns out of action.
Faced with this critical situation, Commander, 191 Infantry Brigade asked for air support at 1100 hours ... by the time the Defence Minister okayed the request, five hours had elapsed.'
(This explains the absence of IAF from the battle area till late afternoon)
'Pathankot was the nearest airbase available to the zone of conflict. Situated near the border between Jammu and Punjab, Pathankot was a mere 30 seconds flying time from the border ... It had two Mystere Squadrons No 3 and 31 and No 45 Squadron flying Vampire fighters ... The Vampires had been ready and armed sitting on the tarmac and on receipt of the CAS's orders, the first wave of four Vampires took off at 1719 hours ... Three missions were to be flown. The second one at 1730 and the third at 1740 hours ... The arrival of the Vampires over the battlefield was greeted with relief. But relief turned to horror as the aircraft made a strafing run on the 3 Mahar positions ... they then turned their attention towards the Pakistani tanks ... Ground fire hit one of the Vampires flown by Flying Officer SV Pathak ... The PAF was called up and soon a pair of Sidewinder - armed F-86s were over the area....'
The article then recounts Bhatti's account verbatim and then comments on some aspects ... 'However, Bhatti is inaccurate in identifying Canberras in the vicinity, as no Canberra's were flying that day. He had also missed another fact, that one Vampire escaped the wrath of the Sabres. Flight Lieutenant Sondhi managed to escape. Of the four Vampires claimed by the Pakistanis, Rafiqui was credited with two of the kills, with Bhatti getting the credit for the Sabres. There was only one survivor, Flying Officer SV Pathak from the first formation who managed to bale out (after his Vampire was hit by ground fire). Flight Lieutenants A K Bhagwagar, V M Joshi and S Bharadwaj, all from the second formation were killed. The solitary Vampire that escaped was from the second formation. A very shaken Flight Lieutenant Sondhi explained how the Sabres made mince meat of his formation..... All in all the Vampires had received a bad mauling from the Pakistan Air Defences.'
Air Marshal Nur Khan, returning from his visit to the battle front, landed at Sargodha where he received the news of the PAF opening its account and the decisive initial victory achieved over the IAF. He was able to congratulate in person the two PAF officers responsible for drawing first blood. This overwhelming victory had several profound effects on the military situation. One of them, unknown then to PAF, after losing an entire formation of four Vampires in the opening round, IAF ordered the immediate withdrawal of its entire fleet of 132 Vampires and 56 Dassault Ouragons (Toofani) from its operational inventory. This single engagement resulted in the effective reduction of IAF Combat Strength by about 35%.
The entire air battle had taken place in broad view of the Pakistan Army whose morale was raised pitch high at the prompt dispatch of its tormentors. Brigadier Amjad Chaudhry, the Artillery Commander of No 4 Corps wrote in a letter to the C-in-C, 'Your very first action in Chamb left no doubt in our minds that we did not have to worry much about the enemy air. The pattern was set there and then. We will never forget that spectacle - it lifted our spirits and gave us a flying start.'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Albeit, the term pre-emptive is a misnomer but first time in history, the Indian Air Force has admitted losing 35 aircraft in the two initial ground strikes by the PAF. However, the overall claims of losing on 59 aircraft and destroying 43 PAF aircraft is certainly far from the truth as in the past IAF has even admitted losing 75 aircraft'
Since in 1965, PAF was only operating American types of combat planes, thus US was able to verify that PAF lost less than 20 aircraft through out the war.
IAF takes a candid look at the 1965 war
It was the first air battle between India and Pakistan. The Indian Air Force was numerically superior, with 28 combat squadrons to PAF's 11, but it was saddled with technologically inferior fighters. And, caught off-guard by the PAF offensive, India had lost 35 of its aircraft on the ground during pre-emptive strikes — one on Pathankot on September 6 and then on Kalaikunda, a day later.
IAF's latest history of its operations in the 1965 war acknowledges it "suffered disproportionately higher losses" than PAF.
Read more:
IAF takes a candid look at the 1965 war - The Times of India
Two IAF Canberra Bombers on fire during an attack on IAF Station Kalaikunda.
Smoke rises from Pathankot runway as the IAF Base comes under attack.
PAF maintained continuous Combat Air Patrols (Caps) comprising pairs of F-86s supported by single F-104A Starfighters, keeping about 10 miles away from the border to avoid provocation, but ready to deal immediately with any attempt at IAF intervention in the land battle. The plan was to withdraw the CAP by 1700 hours if the IAF had not reacted by then. The IAF however, remained conspicuously absent till afternoon which was enigmatic and added to the tension. That's when Nur Khan, the PAF C-in-C decided to obtain assessments of the battle area from personal observation. He took off in an Army L-19 aircraft from Gujrat. On landing back from the reconnaissance flight, the Air Marshal decided to extend the CAP beyond 1700 hours. His observation was that Pakistani troops, tanks, guns and vehicles were too temptingly exposed for the IAF to ignore for long.
At 1720 hours, Army reported that IAF was indeed attacking the advancing Pakistani forces in the Chamb sector. Within minutes, Squadron Leader Sarfraz Rafiqui, Officer Commanding No 5 Squadron and Flight Lieutenant Imtiaz Bhatti, Flight Commander No 15 Squadron were scrambled and their F-86 Sabres were directed towards the enemy. The rest is narrated by Bhatti:
... Rafiqui and I were told to proceed to Chamb area where the enemy aircraft were attacking our advancing troops. Rafiqui's radio had packed up for a while on the way up. Over the area we descended fast, looking all round and below us for the enemy aircraft. At about this time we also learnt that the C-in-C was flying around the area in an L-19. We did not see him but later on discovered that he had left the area a little while earlier.
Our search succeeded and I spotted two enemy aircraft. They were crossing underneath us and I informed Rafiqui about it. He immediately acknowledged ... 'contact'! Rafiqui said he was going for them. While covering his tail, I spotted two Canberra's 9 O'clock from me at 5-6,000 feet. Then I spotted another two Vampires trying to get behind Rafiqui. I instinctively broke off and positioned myself behind these two. In the meantime Rafiqui had knocked down one of his two targets and was chasing the other. About now I had my sights on one of my own and was holding my fire. I was anxiously waiting for my leader to bring down his second and clear out of my way. When the Vampire I had targeted, closed in on Rafiqui too dangerously, I called out to him to break left. Within the next moment, Rafiqui shot down his second, reacting to my call and broke left. Simultaneously, I pressed my trigger and hit one of them. Having disposed of one I shifted my sight on the other and fired at him. In the chase I had gone as low as 200 feet off the ground when I shot my second prey, he ducked and went into the trees. We had bagged four in our first engagement with the Indians....'
More than thirty years after the 1965 War, the Indian version of the engagement is available in an article 'Four-Nil at Chamb' on the Internet in the programme Bharat-Rakshak-Vayu Sena. Whereas the account admits the loss of four IAF Vampires over Chamb on 1st September, some interesting revelations are made. Portions of which are quoted here:-
'On September 01, the Pakistani artillery started shelling the Indian forward positions, starting 0330 hours, the shelling was exceptionally heavy and continued till 0630 hours. At which time a Pakistani Army force of two Infantry Brigades and two Armoured regiments started their attack on the Indian positions. 3rd Mahar was the forward most battalion and it bore the brunt of the attack along with a solitary squadron of AMX-13 tanks of 20th Lancers. Inspite of their heroic defence the sheer strength of the enemy made its presence felt. No artillery support was given as the Pak shelling had put the guns out of action.
Faced with this critical situation, Commander, 191 Infantry Brigade asked for air support at 1100 hours ... by the time the Defence Minister okayed the request, five hours had elapsed.'
(This explains the absence of IAF from the battle area till late afternoon)
'Pathankot was the nearest airbase available to the zone of conflict. Situated near the border between Jammu and Punjab, Pathankot was a mere 30 seconds flying time from the border ... It had two Mystere Squadrons No 3 and 31 and No 45 Squadron flying Vampire fighters ... The Vampires had been ready and armed sitting on the tarmac and on receipt of the CAS's orders, the first wave of four Vampires took off at 1719 hours ... Three missions were to be flown. The second one at 1730 and the third at 1740 hours ... The arrival of the Vampires over the battlefield was greeted with relief. But relief turned to horror as the aircraft made a strafing run on the 3 Mahar positions ... they then turned their attention towards the Pakistani tanks ... Ground fire hit one of the Vampires flown by Flying Officer SV Pathak ... The PAF was called up and soon a pair of Sidewinder - armed F-86s were over the area....'
The article then recounts Bhatti's account verbatim and then comments on some aspects ... 'However, Bhatti is inaccurate in identifying Canberras in the vicinity, as no Canberra's were flying that day. He had also missed another fact, that one Vampire escaped the wrath of the Sabres. Flight Lieutenant Sondhi managed to escape. Of the four Vampires claimed by the Pakistanis, Rafiqui was credited with two of the kills, with Bhatti getting the credit for the Sabres. There was only one survivor, Flying Officer SV Pathak from the first formation who managed to bale out (after his Vampire was hit by ground fire). Flight Lieutenants A K Bhagwagar, V M Joshi and S Bharadwaj, all from the second formation were killed. The solitary Vampire that escaped was from the second formation. A very shaken Flight Lieutenant Sondhi explained how the Sabres made mince meat of his formation..... All in all the Vampires had received a bad mauling from the Pakistan Air Defences.'
Air Marshal Nur Khan, returning from his visit to the battle front, landed at Sargodha where he received the news of the PAF opening its account and the decisive initial victory achieved over the IAF. He was able to congratulate in person the two PAF officers responsible for drawing first blood. This overwhelming victory had several profound effects on the military situation. One of them, unknown then to PAF, after losing an entire formation of four Vampires in the opening round, IAF ordered the immediate withdrawal of its entire fleet of 132 Vampires and 56 Dassault Ouragons (Toofani) from its operational inventory. This single engagement resulted in the effective reduction of IAF Combat Strength by about 35%.
The entire air battle had taken place in broad view of the Pakistan Army whose morale was raised pitch high at the prompt dispatch of its tormentors. Brigadier Amjad Chaudhry, the Artillery Commander of No 4 Corps wrote in a letter to the C-in-C, 'Your very first action in Chamb left no doubt in our minds that we did not have to worry much about the enemy air. The pattern was set there and then. We will never forget that spectacle - it lifted our spirits and gave us a flying start.'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Albeit, the term pre-emptive is a misnomer but first time in history, the Indian Air Force has admitted losing 35 aircraft in the two initial ground strikes by the PAF. However, the overall claims of losing on 59 aircraft and destroying 43 PAF aircraft is certainly far from the truth as in the past IAF has even admitted losing 75 aircraft'
Since in 1965, PAF was only operating American types of combat planes, thus US was able to verify that PAF lost less than 20 aircraft through out the war.
IAF takes a candid look at the 1965 war
It was the first air battle between India and Pakistan. The Indian Air Force was numerically superior, with 28 combat squadrons to PAF's 11, but it was saddled with technologically inferior fighters. And, caught off-guard by the PAF offensive, India had lost 35 of its aircraft on the ground during pre-emptive strikes — one on Pathankot on September 6 and then on Kalaikunda, a day later.
IAF's latest history of its operations in the 1965 war acknowledges it "suffered disproportionately higher losses" than PAF.
Read more:
IAF takes a candid look at the 1965 war - The Times of India
Two IAF Canberra Bombers on fire during an attack on IAF Station Kalaikunda.
Smoke rises from Pathankot runway as the IAF Base comes under attack.
Windjammer
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Ironically we seldom witness these advisory lines when threads on say 1971 or Kargil crop up like vegetables in an RSS garden.
nair
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Lol.... You know what??? You are too predictable...... I was expecting this (1971 part)......... I dont mind that too( i wrote 1971 also but then deleted that part
)..... Provided all those who wanna troll use the dedicated sticky threads.........
Windjammer
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yup, i can see your post was edited when you removed the 1971 part. predictable indeed.Lol.... You know what??? You are too predictable...... I was expecting this (1971 part)......... I dont mind that too( i wrote 1971 also but then deleted that part
nair
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yup, i can see your post was edited when you removed the 1971 part. predictable indeed.
Edited as in while typing it...... We have been in this forum long enough to know each other better arent we?
Sodium
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We already know Indians very well...Baghal mien churi munn mien Ram Ram....quite predictable
Sodium
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![[Bregs]](/data/avatars/m/148/148509.jpg?1491816884){kind=avatar}
[Bregs]
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Did Indian succeeded to have breakfast at Lahore gym khana
ok i thought objective from pak point of was kashmir, Indian objective was to open another front in rajasthan and punjab to widen the war, India never had and will never have in future any claim to pakistan Punjab
Windjammer
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Qutb-ud-din Aybak
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what ever happened then proved one thing. no one can fight limited war. kashmir conflict became an all ou war between the two countries. in kargil pakistan army generals were of opinion to open two new fronts in kashmir to remove pressure from forces at kargil. this helps understand that cold start or any other such doctorines depends on your enemy and its will to fight an all out war.
Hamza913
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Defending ourselves and humiliating India.
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