Pralay : New missile in development

Basel said:

http://project2049.net/documents/chinese_anti_ship_ballistic_missile_asbm.pdf

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I have read all the "papers", you do not need to post them.

The point stands there are significant holes in target acquisition and tracking such a system would face when in action against a carrier battle group or blue water targets in general....not to mention the defensive resources such a battle group would have at its disposal.

You can ask @Penguin about it.....we engaged with some chinese trolls not so long ago on just this subject and I don't feel like repeating myself all over again.

The concept of uncounterable superweapons is so 1940s.

Nilgiri said:

The point stands there are significant holes in target acquisition and tracking such a system would face when in action against a carrier battle group or blue water targets in general....not to mention the defensive resources such a battle group would have at its disposal.

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Indeed. I just went over (not in any depth mind you. I stopped caring about doing that a while ago) one specific antidote the US has been investing in with great effort; electronic warfare.

China's ASBMs are a know commodity to the USN. That allows the US to plan defensive and offensive measures to suppress, degrade or destroy them, which the US has been doing.

Electronic warfare, ABM capabilities, soft and hard-kill ASAT, long ranged engagements via CEC or EOR capabilities using long-range munitions like SM-6 or Tomahawk for OTH engagements, there are a fair number of solutions the US has at its disposal for this and other systems China fields.

Olaf One-Brow said:

No real surprise people don't know what the f*ck they're talking about. Actual response methods are classified, but a system with a large kill-chain that needs to operate on a network that talks with a large number of supporting assets like OTH radars, satellites, command and control vehicles, launchers and supporting assets like surface, subsurface and airborne assets opens itself up to electronic attack to blind, degrade or destroy critical elements and render the overall kill-chain ineffective or compromised.

A number of upcoming and recent US Navy acquisitions support electronic attack.

Electronic attack is only one of a host of offensive and defensive options that can be utilized to neutralize hostile weapon systems.

If pressed into service, the MQ-25 Stingray is another tool, not an endgame for the USN.

Already aboard USS Ponce, a scaled up 150kw version is to be tested very soon.

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Basel said:

So, it seems India is taking Chinese route of DF-21D & DF-26, if true then it validates the capability China have now.

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First we have to find the AC and AC will have BMD system deployed. Our best bet is still Brahmos on Sukhoi. A mach 3 stealthy cruise missile.

So, it seems India is taking Chinese route of DF-21D & DF-26, if true then it validates the capability China have now.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pralay-new-missile-in-development.445351/page-2#ixzz4I7qhwkdy

Actually other way around. The Soviets had the tech. The Russians continued with it. The trick isn't the missile. The Russians had Mach 5 so forth with unclassified attack speeds and range!
Problem is intelligence. Radars Sat. Etc...red army had a lot of. Russia maintians these.
Carriers had always been vulnerable to attack hence the need to stay away from the actual battle!
Finding a battle group is hard.
The shorrya missile brahmos can all hit carriers. But problem is located them.
The Chinese are following suite now. Before the pla didn't have the budget and didn't care but pla is secure that the plan can now be offensive.
Why would China plan build carriers or ships for that matter if missiles could kill that easily.
It's a big ocean. Russia has allowing India directly invest in global command intelligence infast. Not out of alliengience alone but finance.
The Indian military does play poker very well.

Ind4Ever said:

You are confusing Shourya with Surya... Shourya is our canister launched missile with 1000kg warhead. 700-800km. Tactical missile Surface to surface at hypersonic speed. Which is derivative of K15.

Surya is intercontinental ballistic missile under development (Black project) 11-12000km range.

Pralay I guess Fusion between Shourya structural integrity and Bramose technical parameters. MAY BE RANGED INCREASED VARIANT OF BRAMOSE... As u can see the confidence of our scientists when they call a missile "PRALAY"

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thats partially right pralay is a mix of technologies developed and tested for bhramos , nirbhay & shourya which is jumbelled into a compact and lighter medium ranged surface to surface missile which could be used for ASM aswell as a starategik anty surface roles

GURU DUTT said:

thats partially right pralay is a mix of technologies developed and tested for bhramos , nirbhay & shourya which is jumbelled into a compact and lighter medium ranged surface to surface missile which could be used for ASM aswell as a starategik anty surface roles

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Welcome back Guruji

If it shares dimensions with Shaurya (consequentially the K-15 as well), it means it can be put in Arihant's silos as well. A submarine-launched ASBM is several levels higher on the deadly scale than a ground-launched one.

However, sharing of targeting data might be more difficult.

Good luck !

Armani said:

If it shares dimensions with Shaurya (consequentially the K-15 as well), it means it can be put in Arihant's silos as well. A submarine-launched ASBM is several levels higher on the deadly scale than a ground-launched one.

However, sharing of targeting data might be more difficult.

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Submarines can share data over Navy satellites.

Kinetic said:

Submarines can share data over Navy satellites.

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I think only ELF bands can penetrate water through hundreds of meters (which is where a submarine would be it wants to stay really stealthy). For other bands like VLF, you'd need to be very shallow or atleast float antenna cables.

How deep would subs need to be in order to communicate effectively with satellites? And does the transmission capabilities (in the required frequencies) exist with our present or future sats?

I believe we're only building ground-based VLF transmitting stations. Some pics of the antenna masts, from some where in Tamil Nadu...





I think the masts are like 500 meters tall.

Armani said:

I think only ELF bands can penetrate water through hundreds of meters (which is where a submarine would be it wants to stay really stealthy). For other bands like VLF, you'd need to be very shallow or atleast float antenna cables.

How deep would subs need to be in order to communicate effectively with satellites? And does the transmission capabilities (in the required frequencies) exist with our present or future sats?

I believe we're only building ground-based VLF transmitting stations. Some pics of the antenna masts, from some where in Tamil Nadu...

I think the masts are like 500 meters tall.

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By launching floating antenna from sub

#hydra# said:

By launching floating antenna from sub

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But how long is a typical radio buoy cable?

And while it can be very hard to detect owing to it's small size, it's still not foolproof as far as sonar/ISAR detection goes.

Guess that's how it works then.

Armani said:

But how long is a typical radio buoy cable?

And while it can be very hard to detect owing to it's small size, it's still not foolproof as far as sonar/ISAR detection goes.

Guess that's how it works then.

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We cannot launch the missile from 100s of mtrs below sea surface. The ships can detected from land/ships/satellites and the submarines can be used as launching plat form. The missile can be guided by satellites.

Armani said:

I think only ELF bands can penetrate water through hundreds of meters (which is where a submarine would be it wants to stay really stealthy). For other bands like VLF, you'd need to be very shallow or atleast float antenna cables.

How deep would subs need to be in order to communicate effectively with satellites? And does the transmission capabilities (in the required frequencies) exist with our present or future sats?

I believe we're only building ground-based VLF transmitting stations. Some pics of the antenna masts, from some where in Tamil Nadu...

I think the masts are like 500 meters tall.

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INS Kattabomman is 471m(Highest in India)
2nd Highest is Rameswaram TV Tower 323m
These are less than 200m.

Water Car Engineer said:

Maybe, what ever the case, a completely new design is being developed.

The long range anti-ship missile is on the drawing board, and we are confident that in about six years we would be able to get it ready. The long range anti-ship missile is going to be a ballistic missile with a seeker which can hit ships at long range. (2014)

http://www.news18.com/blogs/india/s...adviser-to-defence-minister-10879-748568.html


He mentioned it was around 2000km in range.

It's a stretch, but I have a feeling this is the same program.

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Shaurya missiles are capable of 1750-1900 km with 180 kg warheads

So I guess it's Indian version of Chinese aircraft killer

Smaller warhead enough to take out critical enemy surface fleet far away from shores. AN islands might be their main base