T-Faz

Plz! Close this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/suggestions-discussions/106542-dear-pakistani-members-5.html

If the Pakistan Army/ISI is indeed a puppet of the US as you're saying, then why is the Western media saying the exact opposite?

If the Pakistani Army/ISI was the puppet, why is it the one that is making demands to the US? Why is it asking the CIA contractors to leave? Why did it close the NATO supply line for almost a month? Why did the US leave their drone launch site in Pakistan & going to Afghanistan? Why is the US looking for different supply routes through central Asian countries now? Why didn't the Pakistani Army/ISI operate against the Haqqani network in North Waziristan? Why didn't the Pakistani Army cater to the US demands of the Army operating in Balochistan against the Quetta Shoora? Why didn't the Pakistani Army cater the US demands of drone strikes in Quetta?

But you are free to believe whatever delusions you want to. It contradicts the realities of the situation that the US is getting increasingly frustrated with the Pakistani Army & intelligence, which is why it is appointing Petraeus as the Chief of the CIA.

"Has the army refused to cater to the wished of US apart from NW."

Yes it has. It's even given the US administration many of their requirements which they are uneasy about. They (& you too) have been extremely displeased with the Pakistani Army & the intelligence about their alleged 'connections' with militants.

I don't understand one thing. You seem to imply that the Army has no real power as it is a puppet/on the payroll of the US government. Then you say that the Pakistani Army is too powerful for anyone's liking. Which one is it?

"It was the ISI which planned it this way and others follow, where is the conspiracy in that. ISI approved it and took the Punjab Gov into confidence."

What's your point? It's the Punjab government that approved the plan, right? It was the families of the victims that signed the documents & took the blood money, right? It was the Punjab courts that gave the verdict, right? Or was it the Army/ISI that gave it the verdict, & forged the signatures?

"The same can be said about the Pak Gov then, strategic partners and not on the payroll."

Not really, when was the last time the Pakistani government refused to cater to the wishes of the US?

" All I said was that they get money too and it was the army/ISI who let Davis go."

I thought it was the Pakistani courts that let him go, not the Army/ISI. I'm getting confused here hmmmm.... Are the Pakistani courts 'compromised' as well? Talk about conspiracy theories, you're certainly sounding like a Zionism conspracy theorist.

" the deal was made between the armies then and approved by the Punjabi government. "

But it was approved by the Punjab government, right?

"Saudi Arabia was brought in to keep the things calm and Prince Bandar met with COAS finalizing the deal, you have been on this forum but I guess you missed half of the important discussion. You follow the line fed to the public."

Again, your conspiracy theories are amusing to say the least.

"Jundullah is not causing any grave problems for Pakistan but rather Iran."

Where did I say they were causing problems for Pakistan? I just mentioned Jundullah to tell you the different scenarios taking place inside Balochistan.

As of now, some of the Baloch people are allying themselves to counter the influence of the great number of Pashtuns that they see as a ploy by the Pakistani establishment to 'dilute' the region. There are an equal number of Pashtuns as there are Balochis in Balochistan, & the Balochs see them as a threat. Pashtuns have their loyalties with Pakistan of course.

Then there are other issues in Balochistan as well, such as the smuggling of weapons, drugs & other stuff (as well as kidnappings) from the border areas of Balochistan (such as Chaman, Taftan) into the rest of Balochistan.

"I haven't been to Balochistan in recent times but that does not make a difference,"

Actually, it does. A Baloch from the impoverished region of Lyari, Karachi will have a different mindset to Baloch people from other areas of course. You live in Karachi, right? That's not the point though.

"Simialrly there is no current conflict between the Marri's and the Bugti. neither is there any other inter tribal conflict."

There are no continuous tribal conflicts as of now, but they take place from time to time. You are sadly misinformed.

"As for the civilian gov being on the US payroll, well so is the army"

Not really. The US & the Pakistani Army are in a strategic partnership, not on a payroll.

"they have got a lot of money and it was the Army who let Davis go"

Now who's the conspiracy theorist? First of all, the money was not paid by the American government, but Saudi Arabia. Secondly, it was only after the victims' families accepted the blood money & put their signatures on paper that Davis was released. Thirdly, it was the Pakistani courts that gave the verdict for the release of Davis, not the Army. What's with all the conspiracy theories?

"Zardari cannot change a damn thing"

Zardari can, if he quits being on the US payroll. Imran Khan has already talked about how the civilian government has compromised the nation of Pakistan & the Pakistani people.

"If we go by your logic and assessment, things should be excellent in Balochistan."

Things are not excellent, but there have been major improvements made in Balochsitan now than over the last few decades. Just need to keep up the good work, & to rectify some of the mistakes being committed there. But it's still an improvement there. You still haven't told me when was the last time you visited Balochistan.

"You are clearly unaware of the dynamics at this current stage apart from what you see on surface"

Actually I am. Instead of just branding out ambiguous statements, can you talk about specifics? The current problems in Balochistan are a whole range of issues, unfortunately not the simplistic thoughts you have. There are clashes between various tribal groups (Marri-Bugti), between certain tribes & the government & pro-government tribes, there are extrernal interferences (Jundullah); & other things, such as development issues. Your version of events is much too simplistic.

"Why should Pakistan lower itself to the same position as its neighbors when it can solve the situation itself and come out better from a situation."

Pakistan doesn't lower itself, but it doesn't live by itself in cuckoo land either. It has to realtistically take into account the situation of the region & the countries around it. Every country does that. Is that too hard to understand?

"When Shah Mahmood took a different stance from the army in regards to the Davis Affair, he lost his job."

The Army does not control the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, its that the civilian government is on the payroll of the US, & the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" falls under the civilian government of Pakistan. Zardari is the head of the Pakistani civilian establishment, & Zardari asked Qureshi to resign, not the Army. You're getting confused on a bunch of different things here:

http://www.urdukorner.net/forum/showthread.php?p=449966

Why blame the Army for the corruption of the civilian government?

1) "Look at how the feudals have kept the people under extreme suffering, the mullahs kept them down by using Islam and the industrialists exploit them. What wonders has the army done other than worsen the situation."

2) "Pakistan is booming economically, socially, morally and collectively. We are at the best position we were ever at and Bangladesh wants to join Pakistan again.

There are no bombings, no murders, no nothing, just a roaring Pakistan."

You're mixing a whole range of issues that have nothing to do with the Army or the "anti-Indian" stance you were talking about before. Can we stay on topic please & not get sentimental?

I took a bus from Quetta to Taftan, & the train from Taftan to Zahedan & onwards to Mashad, Iran when I did my Ziarat there six months ago. When was the last time you went to Balochistan? There has been a remarkable improvement in the infrastructure development there, which can be made better of course. Baloch people are being given jobs, representation in the Army, schools are being created. What's the difference between how Pakistan handles its separatist movements and how other nations do? Pakistan will take care of who ever instigates unrest in Balochistan, which it clearly didn't in 1971. The development projects inside Balochistan are increasing at the same time as well.

"Feudal lords, industrialists and the mullahs make up our political parties. Its their collective policy to blame 'foreign hand' every time there is a new problem in Pakistan."

Again, the feeling is mutual. While Indian parties are not made up of feudal lords & mullahs, they tend to behave in the same way as Pakistani parties do. Why not call them out for the same things you do for Pakistan? If Pakistan wants to get rid of its problems, it has to get a realistic assessment of the situation, not the one sided picture that you present.

"In regards to Balochistan, what exactly has stopped the government to concentrate on bettering the situation of that particular province. Why must other provinces harp up all the revenue while Balochistan is left in squander."

The current establishment has had a different mindset about Balochistan as compared to the ones in the past. I've been to Balochistan myself, 10 years ago & now recently (6 months ago).

Foreign policy is overseen by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not the Army. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs office looks realistically at the geo-political situation of the region, & the Army/intelligence act accordingly to the assessment of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. So again, how can you say that the Army formulates the Foreign policy of Pakistan, when it is quite clearly the 'arm' of the government (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) that does that? The civilian government on the other hand is more specifically responsible for the domestic affairs of Pakistan.

And you think Benazir was anti-India, & her anti-Indian attitude got her into power? This is what Manmohan Singh said: "Her intent to break Indo-Pak relations out of the sterile patterns of the past was exemplary."

You really have to take off whatever goggles you're wearing & look at the realities of the situation.

What's with all the flaming & labeling ('wikipedia' jibe)? How have the feudal lords, industrialists and the mullah party reflected their doings in India? How have those 3 been involved in Balochistan in anyway? Balochistan is a purely different matter with rivaling tribes, & the lack of infrastructure development & confidence building measures, it has nothing to do with India. I've never seen anyone in the government linking India with Balochistan, unless where there has been Indian intervention in exacerbating the situation of course. India blames Pakistan for everything inside of Pakistan as well, why should Pakistan act any differently to them? What makes them right in accusing Pakistan, but not for Pakistan to do the same? I suggest you take a few deep breaths & calm yourself. Don't let your anti-Army stance blind you of the realities of the situation.