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Breaking: International community including Arab states recognize permanent Assad rule of Syria

Lay off the sarcasm buddy. It's hard enough to make sense of what you're trying to say already...

So what's your point? That Assad is a brutal dictator? That he tortured and killed his people? Well get in line...

Now what? What do you want to do with that? Do you want to take him out and replace him with people who not only will not provide any political freedom, rule of law, fair and neutral justice system or any form of participatory government, but will take away the few personal freedoms and a relatively modern education that the Syrians enjoy? Cause if you think armed Islamists whose sole mission is to make people live like the 7th century Arabia will somehow magically build a tolerant society and a representative government, then I have an amazing ocean front property to sell you on Kepler-16b...

Democracy is not a piece of paper you win at the end of a bloody war. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any revolutions that resulted in democracies. Because democracy is a state of mind. It's a set of principles and values exercised by the masses of the people. It requires each member of the society to freely exercise his/her choice. And what that implies is that you need to have the space for differences in beliefs, thoughts, views, tastes, choices, etc... In short, you need tolerance! The prerequisite for all of this is a tolerant society.

Can you see now why democracy, political freedom, freedom and thought and expression, etc... are so difficult to take hold in middle east? Because we ourselves, are intolerant people. Now dealing with that is the real battle. That is the true revolution. That's what takes a lot of hard work, with even more heart and courage. And unfortunately for the lazy minded folks looking for a quick fixes, there are no shortcuts. Because societies take a long time to evolve. Cultures, mindsets, principles don't change so quickly. The fastest way to do it is to bite the bullet, pay the heavy price and go for the non-violent, peaceful evolution and incremental change. No gun wielding thugs offering easy solutions will solve the problem. You'll just be jumping from the frying pan, into the fire... into hell.

Excellent post.

In present of American troops and while no-fly zone were imposed by Americans and their allies letting Sadam to hover his choppers to kill people means nothing but green light ...

And about getting off-topic, you accused Shia of having westerns on their sides to fool Sunnies and I listed events that Shia has been oppressed by westerns ... how it could be off-topic when I replied your claimed ? and make me a liar?

I don't understand why this guy keeps acting like the whole world wants to put down the poor victimized Sunni. Turkey, a democratic Sunni majority country, is part of NATO. The Sunnis in countries like Kuwait, Qatar, and UAE, are all living very well. The world hasn't sanctioned Indonesia nor is it daily bombing them, even though they have the world's largest Muslim population (200 MILLION SUNNIS). That's equivalent to 200 Gazas.

Pakistan has 178 million Muslims, with large sunni population, and they even have nukes.

Why do we Muslims (both Sunnis and Shias) always act like we are the poor, weak victims?

Just because people aren't fond of ISIS, Falcon dude, doesn't mean that people are anti-Sunni. Most Muslims, whether Sunni or Shia or whatever, hate ISIS and other extremist scumbags like them.

There is approx. 1.5 billion Sunnis in the world. That's almost 20% of the world population. That means for every five people you find on Earth, one of them is a Sunni. If 1.5 billion people are being victimized, then we must really, really suck.
 
Lay off the sarcasm buddy. It's hard enough to make sense of what you're trying to say already...

So what's your point? That Assad is a brutal dictator? That he tortured and killed his people? Well get in line...

Now what? What do you want to do with that? Do you want to take him out and replace him with people who not only will not provide any political freedom, rule of law, fair and neutral justice system or any form of participatory government, but will take away the few personal freedoms and a relatively modern education that the Syrians enjoy? Cause if you think armed Islamists whose sole mission is to make people live like the 7th century Arabia will somehow magically build a tolerant society and a representative government, then I have an amazing ocean front property to sell you on Kepler-16b...

Democracy is not a piece of paper you win at the end of a bloody war. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any revolutions that resulted in democracies. Because democracy is a state of mind. It's a set of principles and values exercised by the masses of the people. It requires each member of the society to freely exercise his/her choice. And what that implies is that you need to have the space for differences in beliefs, thoughts, views, tastes, choices, etc... In short, you need tolerance! The prerequisite for all of this is a tolerant society.

Can you see now why democracy, political freedom, freedom and thought and expression, etc... are so difficult to take hold in middle east? Because we ourselves, are intolerant people. Now dealing with that is the real battle. That is the true revolution. That's what takes a lot of hard work, with even more heart and courage. And unfortunately for the lazy minded folks looking for a quick fixes, there are no shortcuts. Because societies take a long time to evolve. Cultures, mindsets, principles don't change so quickly. The fastest way to do it is to bite the bullet, pay the heavy price and go for the non-violent, peaceful evolution and incremental change. No gun wielding thugs offering easy solutions will solve the problem. You'll just be jumping from the frying pan, into the fire... into hell.

Hey man that’s one hell lot of a quite quality post up there, and one thing for sure is that you do deserve a tap on shoulder for that.
But as I know you are a thinking man, let me try to further more the boundaries of the very discussion you started here.
As human specialists through the whole history have implied, there are some few genuine human instincts accepted as fundamental parts of human essence and the rest of features are either some shoots of those basic instincts or something forced through the might of what we call it law.
Hence you can’t just sit there and hope for those non instincts to grow in masses.
Let me explain it in other words, this is accepted that any homo sapiens getting thirsty would go for drinking water cause that’s a quest to survive and surviving is a genuine aspect of human instinct and nature, but for example something like charity is not in human nature, I mean for sure there are plenty of precious charities happening all over the globe in the name of this homo sapiens name, but doing charity is not something intrinsic and nature rooted. Some are trying to put on a show to make it through the hearts of the audience, some are trading this charity thing for the cause of a greater good you might call it heaven, and many other reasons for the cause of this positive and praised characteristic called generosity, you know why, cause this moral feature is not a genuine part of human essence, hence while happening you have to dig among the basic instincts for the real cause.
All I’m trying to say is the fact that tolerance in essence is not a genuine part of human nature and you just can’t sit aside hoping for it to grow in size in human race.
As for the case of the western societies it’s not like everyone is tolerant enough to tolerate the opposing believes and opinions, but the overwhelming consequence of not being tolerant is just too heavy to burden. Hence for everyone to respect the basic desire to survive is better to act tolerant or else face the crushing consequences.
So may I ask what would be your solution to preach this characteristic among those societies, do you believe in the rule of law, then how shall that law be enforced? Isn’t it passed enough of human history that make you believe that for the laws to be enforced in human societies there needs to be principle instruments that they aren’t going to be heterogenesis.
Or you just believe that the growing maturity in human wisdom caused by the explosion of fast evolving technology would ease the way for a collective awareness that would lead into a more tolerant human society? Something that I don't believe in.
I want to know what would be your idea to preach that tolerance?
 
Hey man that’s one hell lot of a quite quality post up there, and one thing for sure is that you do deserve a tap on shoulder for that.
But as I know you are a thinking man, let me try to further more the boundaries of the very discussion you started here.
As human specialists through the whole history have implied, there are some few genuine human instincts accepted as fundamental parts of human essence and the rest of features are either some shoots of those basic instincts or something forced through the might of what we call it law.
Hence you can’t just sit there and hope for those non instincts to grow in masses.
Let me explain it in other words, this is accepted that any homo sapiens getting thirsty would go for drinking water cause that’s a quest to survive and surviving is a genuine aspect of human instinct and nature, but for example something like charity is not in human nature, I mean for sure there are plenty of precious charities happening all over the globe in the name of this homo sapiens name, but doing charity is not something intrinsic and nature rooted. Some are trying to put on a show to make it through the hearts of the audience, some are trading this charity thing for the cause of a greater good you might call it heaven, and many other reasons for the cause of this positive and praised characteristic called generosity, you know why, cause this moral feature is not a genuine part of human essence, hence while happening you have to dig among the basic instincts for the real cause.
All I’m trying to say is the fact that tolerance in essence is not a genuine part of human nature and you just can’t sit aside hoping for it to grow in size in human race.
As for the case of the western societies it’s not like everyone is tolerant enough to tolerate the opposing believes and opinions, but the overwhelming consequence of not being tolerant is just too heavy to burden. Hence for everyone to respect the basic desire to survive is better to act tolerant or else face the crushing consequences.
So may I ask what would be your solution to preach this characteristic among those societies, do you believe in the rule of law, then how shall that law be enforced? Isn’t it passed enough of human history that make you believe that for the laws to be enforced in human societies there needs to be principle instruments that they aren’t going to be heterogenesis.
Or you just believe that the growing maturity in human wisdom caused by the explosion of fast evolving technology would ease the way for a collective awareness that would lead into a more tolerant human society? Something that I don't believe in.
I want to know what would be your idea to preach that tolerance?

Either you gotta enforce it on people through iron fist which would not last out for a single day and has failed in past or let them to practice these not genuine part of human nature on daily basis to get little by little use to it ... like an infant which starts sitting, crawling and finally walking nation should adopt the same pattern ..nothing would happen over a night by saying abracadabra ... awareness takes time and principle ..as Victor Hugo says:

اگر در سر یک ملت بذر دانش و اخلاق بکارید و آنها را آبیاری کنید حاصلخیز کنید، روشن کنید و تربیت کنید خواهید دید که دیگر نیاز به بریدن و به دار آویختن این سرهای نازنین نیست !​
 
Either you gotta enforce it on people through iron fist which would not last out for a single day and has failed in past or let them to practice these not genuine part of human nature on daily basis to get little by little use to it ... like an infant which starts sitting, crawling and finally walking nation should adopt the same pattern ..nothing would happen over a night by saying abracadabra ... awareness takes time and principle ..as Victor Hugo says:

اگر در سر یک ملت بذر دانش و اخلاق بکارید و آنها را آبیاری کنید حاصلخیز کنید، روشن کنید و تربیت کنید خواهید دید که دیگر نیاز به بریدن و به دار آویختن این سرهای نازنین نیست !​
Hey dear thanks for your reply, however please don't get me wrong but I believe your answer lacks that maturity I expected.
In fact I was all trying to bold the very same conflict presented in the answer of yours.
The very sequence you mentioned in your reply about a child crawling, walking and running is all in accordance with the child's quest to explore the world around and that very action falls in the principles of full filling the very basic instinct of surviving, something in common for all beings of the universe.
You see, that's why there never is a need to preach walking for kids. Cause walking falls in the exacts trajectory of their basic instincts.
But being tolerant, is something else. Human is never meant to be tolerant, cause that's in exact opposite of it's instinct quest for survive, to act based on a human instinct homo sapiens shall in fact crush any opposite voices, cause that's what falls in their long term individual interests. Don't get me wrong, I do exactly know that a tolerant society leads into a higher collective interest, but hey, we're not talking about masses and societies, but the core of the problem we were discussing was the noncompliance of long term mass interests and the individual objective functions.
Here comes the dilemma you also mentioned, the nugatory results of a forced moral behavior into masses, versus the futile expect for these moral characteristics to be spread among the societies (I bet no one demands a proof, looking to where these homo sapiens stand after millenniums of passed history)
So if the enforcing doesn't work, and if waiting for it to be spread through masses via practice also is not gonna work, then what would be the answer? The Darwin's theory for the survival of the fittest? Is the picture we are looking, the mother natures extinction of the weaks? Shall we believe those who didn't seize the time to improve are paying the price? I'm not that low of a man, but to think it thoroughly all aspects shall be gotten noticed.
 
Murderers? Rapists?
You seem to be talking about the Assad regime but then your nationality makes me wonder why you'd have that kind of opinion.
When it comes to murder, the Assad regime beats any militant group in Syria. Hands down. Rape? I think it's silly to think they'd spend their time murdering thousands of innocents and not rape a few women along the way.

http://www.vocativ.com/news/224151/syria-government-assad-kills-more-civilians-than-isis
Islamic State has killed many Syrians, but Assad’s forces have killed more - The Washington Post
Assad's government still kills way more civilians than ISIS - Business Insider

Aside from murdering, these guys are pretty good at recreating Nazi death camps from what we can see from pictures leaked by a Syrian defector.
Syria defector's photos depict 'systematic torture and killing' of detainees - World - CBC News
Not that I'm giving the Assad regime full credit for this, because they had some outside help.
A Notorious Nazi War Criminal Reportedly Died In Syria Four Years Ago

Well, as i always said NO SIDE IS AN ANGEL here. This is geo-politics and YES ITS A VERY DIRTY GAME. I just laugh when i see some Iranians and naive Assad supporters here claiming how Assad and his Mullah backers are angels and have never done any harm/killed/spilled blood. LOL LMAO.:rofl: Sometimes i can't believe how some people can be so naive/misinformed. lol

You can say you support your side because of your interests or for strategic reasons or better still because you have good/close relations with that certain country etc, its normal and i understand that since many powers do that, But when you start claiming your side is holy while the other is a evil then we have a problem.:help: lol

As i said Dictator criminal Assad has as much(if not far more) blood in his hands as the islamists fighters in Syria.:agree: Only a fool will deny this/think otherwise. Moreover, i said before, many people actually forget that as recently as 6-8 years ago Dictator Assad and his familly(i call it a monarchy since its a familly based clan ruling the country for over half a century now, from father to son etc.lol ) backed by his mullah patrons in Tehran were actually supporting Al Qaeda and other terrorist/insurgents groups in Iraq against iraqi civilians/U.S/British soldiers. The U.S/U.K publicly asked them to stop such support invane, since according to Assad and his mullah GOD fathers these terrorists groups were simply fighting an infidel army in muslim holy lands(not much different from ISIS slogans today isnt it?:lol:) . As they say Karma is bitch, now these very same type of terrorists are now hunting their former masters. Why i'm not surprised?:rofl:

I really do hope Assad regime and his soldiers(plus his terrorists backers in Tehran/IRG) keep dying in their thousands in Syria fighting the very same terrorists they once armed and supported. This way it will teach them a good lesson not to repeat such mistakes in future(especially against far bigger powers.). Play with fire it will burn you.:enjoy:

White House Says Syria's Military Intelligence Chief Actively Supports Insurgency in Iraq, But What about Assad? | The Weekly Standard
US ties Syrian official to Iraq insurgency (Assad's Bro In Law, Spy chief)
Slain Syrian official supported al Qaeda in Iraq | The Long War Journal
Foreign involvement in the Iraqi insurgency | Flat Earth News
Syria's Financial Support for Jihad: Syrian Terrorism :: Middle East Quarterly


Im not shedding any tears for them AT ALL. In fact its the opposite, let them have a good taste of their own medecine.:D:chilli::chilli:

I follow this war since very beginning and I clearly see the pattern: when rebels advance US cuts supplies, when loyalists advance US allows some TOWs in. So the war would last forever.

Terrorists and their former masters killing ecah other, makes the middle east a better place. The more they kill each other, the better for mankind and the region. In short, i support U.S/U.K/France strategy here.:cheers:
 
Pakistan has 178 million Muslims, with large sunni population, and they even have nukes.


Other than Taliban, only Arab Sunnis can be extremists. Islam started off in the Arab world. All non Arabs learned Islam from Arabs. Non Arabs typically are not crazy over Islam, which is something they learned from Arabs who created Islam.
 
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