Lessons from China?

[VCheng]

Given that the relationship between China and Pakistan is widely recognized to be mutually beneficial, and given that the CPEC projects have the potential to boost Pakistan's economic growth, I want to pose a question for discussion:

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM and other members, your thoughts, if you please?

 

[dray]

Given that the relationship between China and Pakistan is widely recognized to be mutually beneficial, and given that the CPEC projects have the potential to boost Pakistan's economic growth, I want to pose a question for discussion:

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM and other members, your thoughts, if you please?

Pakistan being a Muslim country and a democracy, you cannot take up most of the measures that China took in Xinjiang. Besides, many in Pakistan establishment and population do consider certain level of radicalism as valid and Islamic, thus desirable, there can be a debate about how much of radicalism is not radicalism in the opinion of majority of Pakistanis, but there is surely a major gap between the perception of Chinese and Pakistanis about the definition of radicalism.

And, if you are strictly talking about the terrorists, then also all terrorists are not considered 'terrorists' in Pakistan, there are terrorists, and then there are social workers, freedom fighters and strategic assets. Now, you cannot selectively do a pest-control in your bedroom and left the kitchen teeming with pests, just because they cross over to your neighbour's home with whom you have bad relations. Pests are pests, they will also come back to your bedroom, you either clean them all, or get beaten by them at night.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan being a Muslim country and a democracy, you cannot take up most of the measures that China took in Xinjiang.

So you think that there are no lessons to be learnt here? May be the lesson is not to emulate what China is doing. May be there are certain steps that can be adapted to suit Pakistan's own situation? That is the discussion to be had.

 

[ito]

It will be very dangerous for Pakistan's stability to emulate what China is doing in Xinjiang neither do I think Pakistani establishment can do it.

 

[Levina]

So you think that there are no lessons to be learnt here? May be the lesson is not to emulate what China is doing. May be there are certain steps that can be adapted to suit Pakistan's own situation? That is the discussion to be had.

What works for one might not work for another...same applies to Pakistan and China.

 

[VCheng]

What works for one might not work for another...same applies to Pakistan and China.

Lessons can be adapted, not applied exactly, if found to be relevant. Is there anything China is doing that Pakistan can learn from, is the question I pose for discussion.

 

[third eye]

So you think that there are no lessons to be learnt here? May be the lesson is not to emulate what China is doing. May be there are certain steps that can be adapted to suit Pakistan's own situation? That is the discussion to be had.

The only thing for Pakistan to learn from China is the will to stamp out terrorists.

No differentiation between good & bad, no grace marks for religion, no wavering & no non state actors

Keep the nation first & the rest will follow.

 

[VCheng]

The only thing for Pakistan to learn from China is the will to stamp out terrorists.

No differentiation between good & bad, no grace marks for religion, no wavering & no non state actors

Keep the nation first & the rest will follow.

I would say that Pakistan clearly has the will to stamp out terrorists now. Recent operations are ample proof of that will being expressed.

 

[third eye]

I would say that Pakistan clearly has the will to stamp out terrorists now. Recent operations are ample proof of that will being expressed.

Here lies the rub.

So long as Pak & this includes PA / ISI differentiates between Good & bad Taliban, uses non State actors etc etc any amount of will is of no use for there will always be internal pressure groups who will push their own agenda & dilute the efforts made - & thats whats happening.

Even a UN declared terrorist is running free.

 

[Levina]

Lessons can be adapted, not applied exactly, if found to be relevant. Is there anything China is doing that Pakistan can learn from, is the question I pose for discussion.

The biggest obstacle would be religion; while China is a communist country, Pakistan is an Islamic republic. A little cogitation indicates that Pakistan would have a tough time executing laws to counter radicalism the way it was countered in China. But the Pak. govt can for sometime take a "few" undemocratic steps and curb rise of dissidents on its soil.
One thing's for sure that its high time Pak.Govt displayed the will to sanitize the country completely, just as @Rain Man quoted.

 

[VCheng]

The biggest obstacle would be religion; while China is a communist country, Pakistan is an Islamic republic. A little cogitation indicates that Pakistan would have a tough time executing laws to counter radicalism the way it was countered in China. But the Pak. govt can for sometime take a "few" undemocratic steps and curb rise of dissident on its soil.
One thing's for sure that its high time Pak.Govt displayed the will to sanitize the country completely, just as @Rain Man quoted.

I am on record as a strong proponent of separating religion from matters of State in Pakistan. May be that is the most important lesson to contemplate here, given that China has no religion influencing State policies?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Given that the relationship between China and Pakistan is widely recognized to be mutually beneficial, and given that the CPEC projects have the potential to boost Pakistan's economic growth, I want to pose a question for discussion:

Are there any lessons that Pakistan can learn from China in the way that it is dealing with radicalism in Xinjiang, to be applied within Pakistan?

@FaujHistorian @MastanKhan @AgNoStiC MuSliM and other members, your thoughts, if you please?

Not much.

At this stage, given our national trends, we cannot use the same methods.

Heck we cannot even kickout and punish Burqaposh mullah from Islu.

Forget about other areas.

sadly.

 

[VCheng]

Not much.

At this stage, given our national trends, we cannot use the same methods.

Heck we cannot even kickout and punish Burqaposh mullah from Islu.

Forget about other areas.

sadly.

You are talking about application. That is the next step after we determine if there is anything to learn in the first place.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You are talking about application. That is the next step after we determine if there is anything to learn in the first place.

Great thread. There nothing we can learn from China. That is not to say there nothing to learn from China. It is just that we are incapable of learning anything from China. The fact that in just over two decades they have gone from poverty to a economy that now rivals USA tells you there is everything we can learn from Chinese but we won't.

However what does exite me is another phenomenon that will increasingly come to the fore. As China turns into a superpower Pakistan being next door is going to come under lot if Chinese influence. We are going to have to be strategic partners with China. But to be partners we are going to have to adopt and change. I think the pressure from China is going start resulting in change inside Pakistan.

It is not like they are going to force us. It is that for us to dance with we will have to learn to dance to their beat or the partnership is gone. So to sum it up. We are not going to learn. We will have to adapt because of external pressure.

 

[VCheng]

Great thread. There nothing we can learn from China. That is not to say there nothing to learn from China. It is just that we are incapable of learning anything from China. The fact that in just over two decades they have gone from poverty to a economy that now rivals USA tells you there is everything we can learn from Chinese but we won't.

However what does exite me is another phenomenon that will increasingly come to the fore. As China turns into a superpower Pakistan being next door is going to come under lot if Chinese influence. We are going to have to be strategic partners with China. But to be partners we are going to have to adopt and change. I think the pressure from China is going start resulting in change inside Pakistan.

It is not like they are going to force us. It is that for us to dance with we will have to learn to dance to their neat or the partnership is gone. So to sum it up. We are not going to learn. We will have to adapt because of external pressure.

Great post. What if I told you that USA and China have agreed to work together to stabilize Pakistan, together?