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US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

Well, sure, they can do all that, but what is the end goal they are hoping to achieve?

Destabilize the country and weaken the economy and conventional military - that would only make it easier for religious extremism to spread and for religious extremists to gain power, and none of the above would make it any harder to support the Haqqani network (if indeed Pakistan is supporting them) since they are largely financing themselves through the drug trade, donations from the Gulf, smuggling and other criminal activities.

The only thing I see that may happen is arm twisting the existing govt and military of Pakistan into silence with the threats of above while launching some other unilateral operations to take out high value targets within Pakistan to show progress/success
 
Well, sure, they can do all that, but what is the end goal they are hoping to achieve?

Destabilize the country and weaken the economy and conventional military - that would only make it easier for religious extremism to spread and for religious extremists to gain power, and none of the above would make it any harder to support the Haqqani network (if indeed Pakistan is supporting them) since they are largely financing themselves through the drug trade, donations from the Gulf, smuggling and other criminal activities.

If they are getting financing, and everyother thing through opium and all that illegal stuff, then the notion that Pakistan is supporting them is null and void in the first place, and hence, why all this suspicion?.

In nutshell, Pakistan is in a difficult position. Either way, Pakistan should come clean to the public and start to slowly give out truths to the people, either vehemently deny all these allegations through mass media, or tell US to shut up.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

Well, sure, they can do all that, but what is the end goal they are hoping to achieve?

Destabilize the country and weaken the economy and conventional military - that would only make it easier for religious extremism to spread and for religious extremists to gain power, and none of the above would make it any harder to support the Haqqani network (if indeed Pakistan is supporting them) since they are largely financing themselves through the drug trade, donations from the Gulf, smuggling and other criminal activities.

If they are getting financing, and everyother thing through opium and all that illegal stuff, then the notion that Pakistan is supporting them is null and void in the first place, and hence, why all this suspicion?.

In nutshell, Pakistan is in a difficult position. Either way, Pakistan should come clean to the public and start to slowly give out truths to the people, either vehemently deny all these allegations through mass media, or tell US to shut up.
 
The only thing I see that may happen is arm twisting the existing govt and military of Pakistan into silence with the threats of above while launching some other unilateral operations to take out high value targets within Pakistan to show progress/success

Nah, arm twisting and threats have not done much good to the US, and not even budged the Pakistani establishment. Had they really wanted to take out Haqqani network and all the other support elements, they would have done that well before.
 
The only thing I see that may happen is arm twisting the existing govt and military of Pakistan into silence with the threats of above while launching some other unilateral operations to take out high value targets within Pakistan to show progress/success
If the Haqqani Network could be damaged through 'strikes', the US would have done that already through its Drone Strikes in FATA.

Yes, the US could try and create a 'perception' of success (as it is trying to do with Al Qaeda) by eliminating one or two HVT's through Abbottabad style raids, but the risk involved in those raids is going to be exponentially higher, and the elimination of these HVT's would make essentially no difference to the operations of the Haqqani Network (because the HVT's are probably in hiding and isolated to the point where they have no major role in the network anymore, much like OBL).

IMO, the current US histrionics are in fact an attempt to get Pakistan to use its influence with the Haqqanis in order to get them to back off from high profile attacks against NATO targets in Afghanistan, so that the US does not continue to be embarrassed and can build domestic opinion in favor of a negotiated settlement with the Taliban.
 
In view of the fact that Haqqani Network may not be the sole reasons of humiliating defeat of the mightiest armies, it is beyond comprehension that USA is pressuring Pakistan into launching an attack on the so-called sanctuaries of the Network in NWA. This is particularly disturbing in view of the circumstantial evidence (ability of the Network to operate deep into Afghan capital) that the sanctuaries may have been relocated to somewhere in Afghanistan. Is this pressure a sincere effort to salvage Afghanistan situation for the US? For the sake of argument, if we concede that the Network is indeed hiding in NWA and Pakistan Army’s operation will weaken their ability to attack US interests in Afghanistan, will this give some sort of face saving to the retreating NATO forces? What should be the priority of Pakistan’s security establishment? To attack and eliminate the elements of TTP and al Qaeda attacking Pakistan or further thin out its resources to fight those who are a threat to NATO forces? This is where interests of Pakistan and USA do not converge and they will have to find a middle ground to come to an understanding. The circumstances point to the fact that the problem exists within Afghanistan and should be sorted out by NATO and Afghan National Army. The only way-forward to peace in Afghanistan is purely home-grown initiative keeping in view the demographic realities. Any proposal based on any other consideration will complicate the matters further and push Afghanistan into a never-ending chaos and anarchy.
 
US Ploy behind Haqqani Network

By Sajjad Shaukat

US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mike Mullen and Pakistan’s Chief of Army Staff Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kayani met in the sidelines of NATO conference in Spain. Both the military leaders stressed the need to enhanced military relations between Pakistan and the United States, while expressing their deep satisfaction about the steps, taken to maintain conducive ties between the two countries. But US high officials continue their old blame game which is part of American double game with Pakistan. On the one hand, US desires to improve its military and counter-insurgency cooperation with Islamabad including elimination of trust deficit between the two countries, while on the other hand, it has accelerated its campaign against Pak Army and ISI regarding Haqqani Network which has become the scapegoat of US multiple aims...

US Ploy behind Haqqani Network.. Original Post..
 
U.S. sharpens warning to Pakistan
By Karen DeYoung, Wednesday, September 21, 6:12 AM​
The Obama administration has sharply warned Pakistan that it must cut ties with a leading Taliban group based in the tribal region along the Afghan border and help eliminate its leaders, according to officials from both countries.

In what amounts to an ultimatum, administration officials have indicated that the United States will act unilaterally if Pakistan does not comply.
The message, delivered in high-level meetings and public statements over the past several days, reflects the belief of a growing number of senior administration officials that a years-long strategy of using persuasion and military assistance to influence Pakistani behavior has been ineffective.

White House officials and Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta are said to be adamant in their determination to change the approach, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity about internal administration deliberations.

Although he declined to provide details, Panetta told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday that “we are going to take whatever steps are necessary to protect our forces” in Afghanistan from attacks by the Haqqani network, which has had a long relationship with Pakistan’s intelligence service
“We’ve continued to state that this cannot happen,” Panetta said of the Haqqani network strikes, including a Sept. 13 attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

As Panetta spoke, new CIA Director David H. Petraeus was holding an unpublicized private meeting in Washington with his Pakistani counterpart, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who met with Pakistan’s army chief in Madrid on Friday, said that the “proxy connection” between Pakistani intelligence and the Haqqani network was the focus of those discussions.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is among a minority of administration officials still willing to express public sympathy for Pakistan’s weak civilian leaders as they face a growing threat from domestic terrorism and the politically powerful military.

But during a 31 / 2-hour meeting in New York on Sunday with her Pakistani counterpart, she warned that Pakistan is fast losing friends in Washington, according to one official deeply familiar with the session.

Clinton left the meeting with Pakistan’s assurance that “they recognize that these people are threats to Pakistan as well, and that no one should think that their relationship with the Haqqanis was more important than their relationship with the United States,” a senior administration official said.

But another administration official emphasized the severity of the U.S. officials’ warning. “We are expressing the firm conviction that things have to change . . . in Miranshah and in Islamabad, as well,” this official said. Miranshah is the main population center in Pakistan’s North Waziristan region, where the Haqqani leadership is based. CIA drone attacks elsewhere in the region have avoided the city for fear of civilian casualties.

“It’s a reality that they’re not living in tents in the open,” the official acknowledged. But with Pakistani cooperation, “we know that there are ways to get at extremist leaders anywhere,” the official said, citing the past capture of senior al-Qaeda leaders during joint intelligence operations in the far larger cities of Karachi and Quetta.
As U.S. commanders have claimed progress against the Taliban in southern Afghanistan, the allied Haqqani group has stepped up its efforts in the eastern part of the country and is now considered the principal threat to U.S. forces.

The organization was formed by Jalaluddin Haqqani as one of the resistance groups fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s, with U.S. and Pakistani assistance. In the Afghan civil war that followed, Haqqani sided with the Taliban forces that took power in Kabul in 1996. His fighters fled after the Taliban overthrow in late 2001 to Pakistan, where U.S. intelligence officials think they are in close coordination with al-Qaeda forces.
Pakistani intelligence maintained close connections to the network, now operationally led by Sirajuddin Haqqani, the founder’s son, as a hedge against the future in Afghanistan.

Two years ago, President Obama, in a letter to Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, warned that Pakistan’s intelligence ties to extremist groups, including the Haqqanis, could “not continue.” At the time, Obama promised an expanded strategic relationship with Pakistan in exchange for action.

Since then, U.S. military and civilian aid to Pakistan has increased significantly, and the administration has repeatedly described Pakistan as a crucial partner in the fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan. U.S. diplomats have tried to foster working relationships between the often-estranged Afghan and Pakistani governments, as well as between Pakistan and India, its historical adversary.

Intelligence and counterterrorism cooperation between the two governments has ebbed and flowed over that period, reaching a low point this year with several events, including the shooting death of two Pakistanis by a CIA contractor in January and the unilateral U.S. military raid that killed Osama bin Laden in his suburban Pakistani hideout in May.

Several months of open estrangement were followed by a slow climb back to cooperation — although not against the Haqqanis — by late August. CIA officials noted some improvement in the intelligence relationship, although Pakistan has continued to refuse entreaties for long-term, multiple-entry CIA visas. Even as they have traded public barbs, U.S. and Pakistani military officials reached a tentative agreement this week to return at least 100 of about 200 U.S. military trainers whom Pakistan expelled earlier in the year.

But recent attacks attributed to the Haqqani network in eastern Afghanistan, culminating in the embassy assault last week, appear to have abruptly changed attitudes within the senior levels of the administration.

On Saturday, in a message approved at senior levels in Washington, Cameron Munter, the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, told a radio interviewer in Islamabad that the United States had evidence “linking the Haqqani network to the Pakistan government.”

Although U.S. officials said they are continuing to look for a way forward with Pakistan, at least two factors are likely to narrow the administration’s options. As the conflict continues, Pakistan has fewer friends in Congress, where budget-cutting zeal increasingly coincides with pressure to stop funding assistance to Pakistan.

At the same time, the administration has grown increasingly determined to ease its way out of the Afghanistan conflict, and has diminishing patience for what it views as Pakistani impediments.

“What’s different is that we have begun a transition” in Afghanistan, one administration official said. “We’ve got a credible program to build an effective Afghan security force, and transition is happening, whether people like it or not.”

“For those who are wedded to the past — past relationships, past support structures — and for those who would destabilize Afghanistan,” the official said, “they’ve got to take account of the fact that things are different.”
U.S. sharpens warning to Pakistan - The Washington Post
 
I wish Gen. Mushi hadn't joined this so called war on terror. Today we are still called terrorists even after so much sacrifices . Burn in Hell Mushi with ur whole family. You really paved the way to destroy Pakistan from inside and outside.

Pakistan should quit fighting for the world when they dont give the respect which Pakistan deserve.

It should be considered as act of war if US carry out ops in Pakistan territory .



:pakistan: forever
 
U.S. sharpens warning to Pakistan
By Karen DeYoung, Wednesday, September 21, 6:12 AM​
The Obama administration has sharply warned Pakistan that it must cut ties with a leading Taliban group based in the tribal region along the Afghan border and help eliminate its leaders, according to officials from both countries.

In what amounts to an ultimatum, administration officials have indicated that the United States will act unilaterally if Pakistan does not comply.
The message, delivered in high-level meetings and public statements over the past several days, reflects the belief of a growing number of senior administration officials that a years-long strategy of using persuasion and military assistance to influence Pakistani behavior has been ineffective.

White House officials and Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta are said to be adamant in their determination to change the approach, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity about internal administration deliberations.

Although he declined to provide details, Panetta told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday that “we are going to take whatever steps are necessary to protect our forces” in Afghanistan from attacks by the Haqqani network, which has had a long relationship with Pakistan’s intelligence service
“We’ve continued to state that this cannot happen,” Panetta said of the Haqqani network strikes, including a Sept. 13 attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.

As Panetta spoke, new CIA Director David H. Petraeus was holding an unpublicized private meeting in Washington with his Pakistani counterpart, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who met with Pakistan’s army chief in Madrid on Friday, said that the “proxy connection” between Pakistani intelligence and the Haqqani network was the focus of those discussions.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is among a minority of administration officials still willing to express public sympathy for Pakistan’s weak civilian leaders as they face a growing threat from domestic terrorism and the politically powerful military.

But during a 31 / 2-hour meeting in New York on Sunday with her Pakistani counterpart, she warned that Pakistan is fast losing friends in Washington, according to one official deeply familiar with the session.

Clinton left the meeting with Pakistan’s assurance that “they recognize that these people are threats to Pakistan as well, and that no one should think that their relationship with the Haqqanis was more important than their relationship with the United States,” a senior administration official said.

But another administration official emphasized the severity of the U.S. officials’ warning. “We are expressing the firm conviction that things have to change . . . in Miranshah and in Islamabad, as well,” this official said. Miranshah is the main population center in Pakistan’s North Waziristan region, where the Haqqani leadership is based. CIA drone attacks elsewhere in the region have avoided the city for fear of civilian casualties.

“It’s a reality that they’re not living in tents in the open,” the official acknowledged. But with Pakistani cooperation, “we know that there are ways to get at extremist leaders anywhere,” the official said, citing the past capture of senior al-Qaeda leaders during joint intelligence operations in the far larger cities of Karachi and Quetta.
As U.S. commanders have claimed progress against the Taliban in southern Afghanistan, the allied Haqqani group has stepped up its efforts in the eastern part of the country and is now considered the principal threat to U.S. forces.

The organization was formed by Jalaluddin Haqqani as one of the resistance groups fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s, with U.S. and Pakistani assistance. In the Afghan civil war that followed, Haqqani sided with the Taliban forces that took power in Kabul in 1996. His fighters fled after the Taliban overthrow in late 2001 to Pakistan, where U.S. intelligence officials think they are in close coordination with al-Qaeda forces.
Pakistani intelligence maintained close connections to the network, now operationally led by Sirajuddin Haqqani, the founder’s son, as a hedge against the future in Afghanistan.

Two years ago, President Obama, in a letter to Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, warned that Pakistan’s intelligence ties to extremist groups, including the Haqqanis, could “not continue.” At the time, Obama promised an expanded strategic relationship with Pakistan in exchange for action.

Since then, U.S. military and civilian aid to Pakistan has increased significantly, and the administration has repeatedly described Pakistan as a crucial partner in the fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan. U.S. diplomats have tried to foster working relationships between the often-estranged Afghan and Pakistani governments, as well as between Pakistan and India, its historical adversary.

Intelligence and counterterrorism cooperation between the two governments has ebbed and flowed over that period, reaching a low point this year with several events, including the shooting death of two Pakistanis by a CIA contractor in January and the unilateral U.S. military raid that killed Osama bin Laden in his suburban Pakistani hideout in May.

Several months of open estrangement were followed by a slow climb back to cooperation — although not against the Haqqanis — by late August. CIA officials noted some improvement in the intelligence relationship, although Pakistan has continued to refuse entreaties for long-term, multiple-entry CIA visas. Even as they have traded public barbs, U.S. and Pakistani military officials reached a tentative agreement this week to return at least 100 of about 200 U.S. military trainers whom Pakistan expelled earlier in the year.

But recent attacks attributed to the Haqqani network in eastern Afghanistan, culminating in the embassy assault last week, appear to have abruptly changed attitudes within the senior levels of the administration.

On Saturday, in a message approved at senior levels in Washington, Cameron Munter, the U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, told a radio interviewer in Islamabad that the United States had evidence “linking the Haqqani network to the Pakistan government.”

Although U.S. officials said they are continuing to look for a way forward with Pakistan, at least two factors are likely to narrow the administration’s options. As the conflict continues, Pakistan has fewer friends in Congress, where budget-cutting zeal increasingly coincides with pressure to stop funding assistance to Pakistan.

At the same time, the administration has grown increasingly determined to ease its way out of the Afghanistan conflict, and has diminishing patience for what it views as Pakistani impediments.

“What’s different is that we have begun a transition” in Afghanistan, one administration official said. “We’ve got a credible program to build an effective Afghan security force, and transition is happening, whether people like it or not.”

“For those who are wedded to the past — past relationships, past support structures — and for those who would destabilize Afghanistan,” the official said, “they’ve got to take account of the fact that things are different.”
U.S. sharpens warning to Pakistan - The Washington Post

ley dasu america fair ponkna shoruh kar dita a....
damn care what they said..............:argh:
 
I wish Gen. Mushi hadn't joined this so called war on terror. Today we are still called terrorists even after so much sacrifices . Burn in Hell Mushi with ur whole family. You really paved the way to destroy Pakistan from inside and outside.
Hang on buddy! Don't shoot from your hip when you are unaware of the circumstances under which Mush joined America in the so called WOT.

Just after 9/11 tempers were high and Bush had to cover his political a$$. He therefore warned Mush with his now infamous, "You are either with us or against us." line. He also said that if Pakistan doesn't help, it would be bombed back into the stone age. And that was no empty threat!

Now if you were President Mush, what would you have done? Been witness to hundreds of 15,000 pounder Daisy Cutters destroying much of Pakistan's industrial capacity and infrastructure? And this was no idle threat from Bush!

So avoid bashing the poor sod. Mush was unfortunately stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.
 
Pakistan ISI urged attacks on U.S. targets: officials

By Mark Hosenball | Reuters – 1 hr 6 mins ago

- U.S. officials say there is mounting evidence that Pakistan's chief intelligence agency has been encouraging a Pakistan-based militant network to attack U.S. targets.

The allegations, if fully confirmed, heighten a painful dilemma for President Barack Obama's administration. Washington is under growing political pressure to take action against the Haqqani network after a spate of deadly attacks U.S. officials have attributed to it. These include last week's strike against the American Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan.

Some U.S. intelligence reporting alleges that Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence directorate (ISI) specifically directed, or urged, the Haqqani network to carry out the September 13 attack on the embassy and a NATO headquarters in Kabul, according two U.S. officials and a source familiar with recent U.S.-Pakistan official contacts. However, officials cautioned that this information is uncorroborated.

Another U.S. official familiar with internal government assessments said that at the very least, the available intelligence strongly suggests the ISI has been egging on elements of the Haqqani network to launch attacks at American targets in the region.

While American officials have aired allegations of ties between the ISI and the Haqqani network in recent days, they have not publicly cited evidence that the Pakistani agency, or elements of it, urged its proxy to attack U.S. targets.

While the ISI's motives in any such attacks are not clear, Pakistan has long wanted to play a major role in Afghanistan's future after the departure of NATO troops, and to counter what it sees as the growing influence there of arch-rival India.

This week, top U.S. officials, including Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Admiral Mike Mullen, demanded that Pakistan's leaders take action against the Haqqanis, who are based in that country's tribal areas and are considered among the most dangerous insurgent groups in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region.

Still, despite the threats and an intensified campaign of violence that threatens U.S. efforts to stabilize Afghanistan, the Obama administration has few options for increasing pressure on Pakistan and none of them are good.

After years of efforts to cajole, coax and threaten Pakistan into cracking down on a host of militants operating from within its borders failed to bear fruit, U.S. officials are exasperated.
One alternative -- another cross-border raid, like the U.S. special forces mission that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in May -- may be tempting in some quarters of the U.S. government. But the risks are high and the backlash from Pakistan would be fierce, almost certainly harming what counter-terrorism cooperation exists.

"LITTLE LEVERAGE"

"The administration has thrown everything at this -- high-level meetings, tons of money, all of these overtures, and it hasn't gotten us anywhere," said Caroline Wadhams, a security analyst in Washington.

"This can't go on forever," she said, "but the problem is that we have so little leverage."

The long-simmering tension between the sometime allies, sometime adversaries came to a head last week after the brazen attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. It was a major blow as Obama hopes to nudge Afghanistan toward stability and gradually bring home U.S. forces after a decade of war.

Since then, American officials, including Obama's ambassador in Islamabad and Mullen, his top military officer, have issued unusually blunt criticisms of Pakistan's failure to curb the Haqqani group -- and made frank statements accusing Islamabad of links to the group.

Mullen, in a speech to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Tuesday he had pressed Pakistan's army chief in a four-hour conversation on Friday to break the country's links with the Haqqanis.

"We covered ... the need for the Haqqani Network to disengage, specifically the need for the ISI to disconnect from Haqqani and from this proxy war that they're fighting," Mullen said.

The Haqqanis, just one of a host of militant groups that have used western Pakistan as a base for attacks in Afghanistan, are seen as allied to both al Qaeda and the Afghan Taliban. Supported at times in the past by the CIA, they have had long-standing ties to the ISI.

On Tuesday, regional tensions soared even higher when a suicide bomber killed Burhanuddin Rabbani, the former Afghan president who had headed efforts to secure a peace deal with the Taliban.
While responsibility for the attack remains unclear, the shocking assassination threatened to do even more to reverse a tentative thaw in perpetually dismal U.S.-Pakistani ties a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed near Islamabad. The initial conclusion of U.S. government experts is that Rabbani's assassination was carried out by Afghan Taliban and had no connection to the Haqqani network.

Vali Nasr, who until this spring was a senior official in the U.S. State Department's Afghanistan-Pakistan office, said efforts to prompt Pakistani action against militants with increased public pressure had fallen short.

"They are not blinking," he said.

(Editing by Warren Strobel and Christopher Wilson)
 
I am in love with ISI on that. They are doing what is in the best interest of Pakistan. USA is already a history in Afghanistan and they are only looking for the better time to run with their tail under the legs. Its more about After-USA government in Afghanistan which must be in the interest of Pakistan. We don't want to control them but we do not want anybody else to control them against us either. Period.
 
However, officials cautioned that this information is uncorroborated.

Another U.S. official familiar with internal government assessments said that at the very least, the available intelligence strongly suggests the ISI has been egging on elements of the Haqqani network to launch attacks at American targets in the region.

While American officials have aired allegations of ties between the ISI and the Haqqani network in recent days, they have not publicly cited evidence that the Pakistani agency, or elements of it, urged its proxy to attack U.S. targets.

:smokin: sigh. They sound desperate to frame Pakistan.
 
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