Homosexuality in India

[roadrunner]

I'm a bit confused. Don't take this the wrong way my Indian chums (it's a thread on India and Hinduism's perspectives on homosexuality), but I read an article that homosexuality is illegal in India.

"Unnatural offences 377. Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, and shall also be liable to fine."

i don't altogether mind a country making homosexuality illegal (some people are gay and I think it can't be helped, but it's up to the country), but why are gay pride marches then allowed in India? For example, mardi-gras in Calcutta? Is it to give the impression to the world of Indian tolerance of homosexuality?

Another question, is homosexuality allowed/recommended in Hinduism? Lord Shiva in the Ramayana encouraged people to be homosexual did he not?

Another thing I found in the course of this research was that 40 (FORTY!) % of Indian men had gay sex at least once. That's nearly 1 in 2, which could amount to a quarter of a million people. Does this sound right?
Gay News From 365Gay.com

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why on earth were you on 365Gay.com?

 

[Flintlock]

The law against homosexuality is an archaic one first introduced by the British during the Victorian era.
It has not been repealed. At the same time, it is simply ignored and rarely brought into effect.

Its a form of conveniently sweeping the issue under the carpet, since upholding the law will anger some people and repealing it will anger some other people.

So there you are.

 

[Logic note]

there are many silly laws . do u know , that you can be punished in India for using courier service ? lol

 

[roadrunner]

Why on earth were you on 365Gay.com?

It was linked from this site. Interesting legal issues, you see

 

[roadrunner]

The law against homosexuality is an archaic one first introduced by the British during the Victorian era.
It has not been repealed. At the same time, it is simply ignored and rarely brought into effect.

But this isn't what happens in India. In many cases Indian police hunt, track, and arrest people that are gay.

Cops track down lesbian couple-Ahmedabad-Cities-The Times of India
Eight Detained in Raid of Gay Clubs in India
Gay men in India arrested | DoctorNDTV: Health news on Gay men in India arrested
Lesbian marriage breaks up, girl slits wrist in court-India-The Times of India

 

[Flintlock]

But this isn't what happens in India. In many cases Indian police hunt, track, and arrest people are gay.

Cops track down lesbian couple-Ahmedabad-Cities-The Times of India

Depends on which part of India, whether someone files a complaint or not, etc. etc.....

I believe a lesbian couple married recently in Punjab or Haryana or somewhere...

Mostly police turn a blind eye unless someone really creates a ruckus about it.

Then the media jumps in and accuses the police of being fundamentalist....

At that very moment a scam is exposed/ some blast happens and all is forgotten....

 

[Flintlock]

By Neelesh Misra
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:09 a.m. February 26, 2005

NEW DELHI – Winter is India's wedding season, a time of gold jewelry, dancing and loud music.

But not for Raju and Mala. They are among three lesbian couples who have been making headlines lately by publicly declaring their relationships and calling themselves married.


Advertisement
The law is silent on gay marriages, and same-sex couples are taking advantage of this loophole to perform marriage ceremonies and live together. However, they are vulnerable to arrest because homosexual sex is a crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Since the law against homosexual sex was enacted under British colonial rule in 1861, fewer than 50 people have been convicted, mainly because judges tend to be lenient and authorities are reluctant to stir sexual controversy.

But India is deeply conservative on sexual matters. Heterosexual couples rarely kiss or cuddle in public. Gays in their daily lives face discrimination, ridicule, blackmail and persecution by police and government agencies, human rights campaigners say.

Being openly lesbian is doubly hard in India, with its myriad caste and class distinctions. In fact it's difficult enough just to be a woman. Government estimates say a woman is raped every hour in India, a bride is set on fire in a dowry dispute every six hours and 80 percent of illegally aborted fetuses are female.

So Raju, 25, and Mala, 22, who use single names, showed stunning courage and eloped in December. Apart from the gender question, the couple also defied another ancient taboo; Raju is a Dalit – what used to be called an "untouchable" – while Mala belongs to a higher caste. Higher castes often shunned physical contact with the lowest castes in the past, and social intermingling is still not common.

So a month before Mala was to marry a man, the two women fled their homes in Amritsar and secretly married at a Hindu ceremony in New Delhi. But when they declared their relationship, their families tried to have them arrested.

The couple was detained and taken to court – which said they could live together because the law was silent on the issue.

"Nobody can separate us. Not even death," Raju told reporters. "We have vowed to live together for the rest of our lives as husband and wife."

A second couple emerged in the same month in the eastern state of Bihar, but was less lucky. Police arrested Pooja Singh, a widow with an 8-year-old son, and charged her with abducting her 19-year-old female partner, Sarita.

Sarita, who uses a single name, was returned to her parents on a magistrate's orders. Singh is preparing her appeal to higher courts against the separation order.

Within days a third case surfaced, in Aroor, in the southern state of Kerala, involving Venu and Mangala, married with two children. Mangala, 26, told Venu she had been involved throughout the 10-year marriage with another woman, Ramlath, 23. She said she would kill herself if the two women could not be together.

So Venu, 40, took an unusual step – he married his wife's lover. Now they all live together.

Ruth Vanita is a professor at the University of Montana who is publishing a book on same-sex marriages in India and the West. In an e-mail to The Associated Press, she said the striking feature about most Indian homosexual couples is that they are lower-middle class with no connection to any organized gay movement.

Ranjana Kumari, head of the New Delhi-based Center for Social Research, says lesbian ties are more visible in India now, yet "still there is a total rejection in terms of social acceptance. ... It is only the socially accomplished people who tacitly convey their choice."

Gay campaigners want a repeal of the law against homosexual sex, saying India should learn from Western countries that allow marital rights to same-sex couples.

Vanita, the author, points to a centuries-old Indian tradition that has celebrated love in all forms in myth, folklore and literature.

"I think that tradition will win out against the ignorant and heartless people everywhere who oppose the right to love," she said.

 

[roadrunner]

So the anti-homosexuality laws are implemented in India. The thing which is I asked in the beginning .. take Calcutta. There are gay pride marches every year, but the Calcutta police arrest openly gay people.

IndiaNews Report 2004

Chandigarh police have alerted their Himachal Pradesh counterparts to be on the lookout for the girls. “They could have gone to the hills for their honeymoon, in case they have really tied the knot,” a police officer said. Police sources in Chandigarh said investigations are on and it is possible that the girls are playing a prank. “But since the girls’ parents have mentioned in the complaints that they have eloped and married, we have to seek legal opinion on the matter before making the next move in case they are arrested here,” an officer said.

 

[Flintlock]

So the anti-homosexuality laws are implemented in India. The thing which is I asked in the beginning .. take Calcutta. There are gay pride marches every year, but the Calcutta police arrest openly gay people.

There are gay pride marches but I don't know if people are arrested. I'm assuming that they are not.

Chandigarh police have alerted their Himachal Pradesh counterparts to be on the lookout for the girls. “They could have gone to the hills for their honeymoon, in case they have really tied the knot,” a police officer said. Police sources in Chandigarh said investigations are on and it is possible that the girls are playing a prank. “But since the girls’ parents have mentioned in the complaints that they have eloped and married, we have to seek legal opinion on the matter before making the next move in case they are arrested here,” an officer said.

Chandrigar is in Calcutta isn't it?

No, Chandigarh is in Punjab.

 

[Energon]

As stealth assassin rightly points out, the Anti-homosexual laws as with most laws on the books in India were coined by the British during the Raj.

Since my exposure to India as with most other places in the world has been limited to a few trips, I don't really have an in depth knowledge about the issue. However based on what I've read and from anecdotal observations, I think that homosexuality seems to be fairly tolerated by the public in metropolitan regions provided its not brazenly displayed or imposed upon the general public.

In areas populated by more conservative and religious people (mostly rural and select urbanized areas), I'm guessing homosexuality is far less tolerated and treated with a lot more disdain and/or violence.

Sex in itself as a topic, homosexual or otherwise, is generally considered taboo and avoided in the Indian public arena. This as far as I'm concerned is a big problem because it serves as an impediment to sex education and awareness programs.

From what I understand there has been a fairly strong push to expunge this non pragmatic and archaic law that hardly ever seems to be put in practice. I hope this happens so that the society at large can become even more accepting of the ever prevalent but complex phenomenon of homosexuality. At least this way health workers promoting social awareness can have an easier time doing their jobs.

 

[bhangra12345]

Chandigarh police have alerted their Himachal Pradesh counterparts to be on the lookout for the girls. “They could have gone to the hills for their honeymoon, in case they have really tied the knot,” a police officer said. Police sources in Chandigarh said investigations are on and it is possible that the girls are playing a prank. “But since the girls’ parents have mentioned in the complaints that they have eloped and married, we have to seek legal opinion on the matter before making the next move in case they are arrested here,” an officer said.

note that this was only after a complaint is filed. For the normal police man, who are anyway very minimum and lazy that apart from petty corruption, nothing else matters, do you think they will go after these cases, when they dont have time for registering serious crimes?

 

[roadrunner]

note that this was only after a complaint is filed. For the normal police man, who are anyway very minimum and lazy that apart from petty corruption, nothing else matters, do you think they will go after these cases, when they dont have time for registering serious crimes?

You're suggesting that Indian police only arrest the gays when a complaint is filed by someone that the person is gay? That's probably worse. i could say you're gay, and the Indian police would come and arrest you. Who complained in these cases then?

In 2001, police invaded two offices of the local AIDS prevention organizations to arrest their staff for promoting homosexuality.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0034-89102007000400022&script=sci_arttext

 

[Goodperson]

You're suggesting that Indian police only arrest the gays when a complaint is filed by someone that the person is gay? That's probably worse. i could say you're gay, and the Indian police would come and arrest you. Who complained in these cases then?

In 2001, police invaded two offices of the local AIDS prevention organizations to arrest their staff for promoting homosexuality.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0034-89102007000400022&script=sci_arttext

Whats your intention behind starting such topic? and any other country except yours. At least you accept that there is a law against such practices in India but why bring a religion. This becomes a sensitive topic.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You are our "in house" India hand, and hence I am surprised that you think Calcutta is in Chandigrah. Weren't you the one who posted that Calcutta is the second most populated city in the world?

Few questions come to mind:

1. Do you research before posting or do you just post because of a compulsive motivation?

2. Do you ever see an atlas or bone up about a country that obsesses your inner self, for whatever be the compulsion?

The claim that Calcutta is in Chandigrah is hilarious since a child who has studied geography would know the difference. Furthermore, a glance at Indian subcontinental history would indicate that Calcutta was once the capital of British India. Of course, that is general history and not specific interest history! But then general history is the foundation or else one would not be able to understand specific interest history because then such knowledge would be flawed.

There is no madri gras in Calcutta to the best of the knowledge of those who live there. I live in Calcutta.

But then I do agree that I have not the keen interest in the gays as apparently you have or display.

But then, each to his own preference!

Indeed, notwithstanding Indian laws, none really bother about anyone's sexuality, unless it affects the person individually.

I am no expert on the issue, nor do I have your deep insight on the subject, but from the media one learns that homosexuality is an universal phenomenon and not India centric.

As far as homosexuality is concerned, it is an universal phenomenon. Non existent elsewhere?

One does not quite understand what aspect has caught your interest in this subject and the posts.

Erotica?

Or some other interest that is burning a fire in your belly?

I am sure you have the Arab saying on the subject, more so since that the lineage that is being claimed vociferously in the thread of the history of civilisation that manifested what is known as Pakistan as claimed in some of the threads here.

BTW, isn't there a TV personality in Pakistan who is a rage out there? Obviously, one can understand the interest some have on the subject.

It does show that Pakistan, inspite of having enforceable religious laws which are very categorical about the issue, such TV shows are allowed. Therefore, one can say that even in Pakistan, the people and the government understand the foibles of man, as they do in India!

The world and countries in the world have the same problems or issues. There is nothing unique about any country. All are the same. They just speak different languages and have different cultures.