A Homeland for Indian Muslims

[masterchief_mirza]

Blaming the British now?

Hindutva was a problem for centuries. Practically ever since the local culture came into contact with philosophies that challenged it.

The point I'm making is that the British unleashed it in its active form and certainly liked what they saw as it assisted their designs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It cannot be broken IMO.

The effort will most likely be wasted.

I mean, the evidence is for all of us to see. The British looted this land. Muslim empires in the past only enriched it.
Still Hindus hate us and our religion.

In fact, with greater education and democratisation - this hatred has only increased and spread.
No erudition is going to suffice, this hatred will consume them all.

Besides, WHAT is the problem if we seek support from Pakistan?

Modiji himself sent aid to Pakistan, as has the Govt of India several times.

There is no problem with seeking support from Pakistanis; it is just that I cautioned you against those who have no interest in you other than to use you as a tool.

 

[jamahir]

So at the end, an Indian Muslim, unless he is always loudly abusing Pakistan, is considered by even liberal and well-meaning Hindus like @Joe Shearer, to be engaged in some sort of subversion and reaching out to Pakistan for support.

I have often criticized the Indian political, social and economic system, and never found @Joe Shearer saying to me that I was engaging in subversion.

 

[xeuss]

It is sad that after such elaborate defences of my position and your positions this is the conclusion you come to.

So be it. What can I do?

I have realized a few things looking at Jews (both in Israel and the US) that sincerely support the Palestinian cause. They support the Palestinians because it is the humane and right thing to do. They do not qualify their support by saying adding qualifiers or riders and expect the Palestinians to water down their religion or their culture just for "acceptance"

It is only in India, where Hindus will support us with several qualifiers. From how we dress to how we eat to how we pray, and of course the biggest one of them all, on how and what we think of Pakistan.

This is not about what you can do and what you cannot do. I am sure you are sincere in what you say. I am sure I can return that sincerity by freely expressing myself. At the end, I know you will stand with us, but hear us out as well.

 

[Andhadhun]

It cannot be broken IMO.

The effort will most likely be wasted.

I mean, the evidence is for all of us to see. The British looted this land. Muslim empires in the past only enriched it.
Still Hindus hate us and our religion.

In fact, with greater education and democratisation - this hatred has only increased and spread.
No erudition is going to suffice, this hatred will consume them all.

Besides, WHAT is the problem if we seek support from Pakistan?

Modiji himself sent aid to Pakistan, as has the Govt of India several times.

So your conclusion is that pakistan hates you less than the Hindu majority of India ? Lesser of the two evil.

Or is it that you think pakistan loves you ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is no problem with seeking support from Pakistanis; it is just that I cautioned you against those who have no interest in you other than to use you as a tool.

How would you distinguish between X providing support to Y in the hopes of using Y as a 'tool' and X providing support to Y out of 'genuine friendship'?

From Y's perspective, does it matter what the intentions of X are, so long as the support extended by X helps Y achieve the required goal/s?

 

[xeuss]

So your conclusion is that pakistan hates you less than the Hindu majority of India ? Lesser of the two evil.

Or is it that you think pakistan loves you ?

Right now the only conclusion is that you hate us because of "modern day jazia"

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have realized a few things looking at Jews (both in Israel and the US) that sincerely support the Palestinian cause. They support the Palestinians because it is the humane and right thing to do. They do not qualify their support by saying adding qualifiers or riders and expect the Palestinians to water down their religion or their culture just for "acceptance"

It is only in India, where Hindus will support us with several qualifiers. From how we dress to how we eat to how we pray, and of course the biggest one of them all, on how and what we think of Pakistan.

This is not about what you can do and what you cannot do. I am sure you are sincere in what you say. I am sure I can return that sincerity by freely expressing myself. At the end, I know you will stand with us, but hear us out as well.

Very fairly said.

 

[Andhadhun]

Right now the only conclusion is that you hate us because of "modern day jazia"

You are free to draw your own conclusion. Not my problem.

 

[xeuss]

You are free to draw your own conclusion. Not my problem.

I know I am free because this is PDF. Not some vedic defense forum.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have realized a few things looking at Jews (both in Israel and the US) that sincerely support the Palestinian cause. They support the Palestinians because it is the humane and right thing to do. They do not qualify their support by saying adding qualifiers or riders and expect the Palestinians to water down their religion or their culture just for "acceptance"

It is only in India, where Hindus will support us with several qualifiers. From how we dress to how we eat to how we pray, and of course the biggest one of them all, on how and what we think of Pakistan.

This is not about what you can do and what you cannot do. I am sure you are sincere in what you say. I am sure I can return that sincerity by freely expressing myself. At the end, I know you will stand with us, but hear us out as well.

,

Chomsky, in fact, is my exemplar. He, like another intensely disliked person of principle and character, Arundhati Roy, stands for right over wrong, and to hell with nationalism. Tagore would have smiled and heard him with the greatest of appreciation.

 

[Andhadhun]

I know I am free because this is PDF. Not some vedic defense forum.

In vedic defense forum you are not free to draw your own conclusion ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

How would you distinguish between X providing support to Y in the hopes of using Y as a 'tool' and X providing support to Y out of 'genuine friendship'?

From Y's perspective, does it matter what the intentions of X are, so long as the support extended by X helps Y achieve the required goal/s?

May I answer freely and frankly? I am a timid creature in front of you armour-plated knights nowadays.

 

[undercover JIX]

Then readers are smarter than I am, and are reading things that I did not write.



I have used that freedom as a guest should, never in a sly or underhand manner. You keep repeating again and again that you see something that is not explicit. But other than expressing the pious hope that more members would share your insight and vision, you have not yet, to this post, said anything.

Either I have said something objectionable, or I have not. If the first, any man of integrity should have no difficulty in saying what it is.



If I displayed a lack of calm, I am surprised.

Azeezam Agha Joe,

You need to relax and please do not get agitated, if you have nothing done/said wrong against Pakistanis and Muslims. as I said earlier you are entitled to your views. All of us Muslims and Pakistanis do not need or have to agree with you. You have your logic and arguments based on your experience and viewpoint.......

But to put an end to you playing victim card,

Dast basta moaafi ka khwastgaar hoon, janab e aali muqaam ki zarra nawazi ho gi...dar guzar farmaiyay..

 

[xeuss]

,

Chomsky, in fact, is my exemplar. He, like another intensely disliked person of principle and character, Arundhati Roy, stands for right over wrong, and to hell with nationalism. Tagore would have smiled and heard him with the greatest of appreciation.

Basically, if you (figuratively here) are going to support us, support us for what we are and who we are, and more importantly because it is the humane and right thing to do. Don't qualify your support with a rider that "only if you do this or that will you reach the promised land". Because then, you are not supporting "us", but another "idea of us that you have dreamed of".